Goblin Squad Member
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Last I recall, there would be a 'core' alignment chosen by the player which you'd drift back toward over time, and an 'active' alignment based on your recent actions. The core alignment would define the fixed, proscriptive definition of one's 'nature', while the active alignment would be a descriptive definition of what you've been doing.
I like the basic idea, but think neither point should be truly fixed, but act as if joined by an elastic tether. The core is more massive with greater pull but less mobility, while the less massive and more freely-moving active alignment still has some pull on the system. You could consider it loosely analogous to a gravitational system.
As an example, say you start out with a chosen core of LN, but in playing your active drifts way over to CN. Then for every three points of pull the core exerts on the active, the active exerts one point of pull on the core.
Constantly pulling the active alignment in a consistent direction would eventually shift the core to match it and spells/ceremonies like atonement would act to pull one's core alignment in a specific direction so that plus effort to keep the active end moving the same way could help someone shift their core in a desired direction a bit faster, enough to break a vicious cycle and keep one shift from amplifying itself to the point it's unrecoverable.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Then for every three points of pull the core exerts on the active, the active exerts one point of pull on the core.
Intriguing, making the core follow the active, but more slowly than the active follows the core. My initial impression: I like it.
Taking your gravity analogy a step further: should the pull between the active and core alignments be uniform, or should it vary as the distance between the two alignments increases? If we take a LG and a NN character, and they both drive their active alignment to CE, so that the LG-CE distance is twice the distance of NN-CE. Do their alignments return to rest in the same time - that is, does the LG-CE distance get covered faster? Or does it take the LG-CE character twice as long for his alignments to come back to rest since it's twice the distance? Or does the alignment recovery take even longer when your core and active are further apart?
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Goblin Squad Member
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I like this. A lot. Actions - particularly a persistent pattern of actions - having a slow but sure effect on your core principles seems much more interesting than simply being able to designate a fixed spot that you will drift back to no matter how wildly divergent, over any length of time, your actions are from that core.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The concern I have is in establish some of the looser alignment sets. How do you gain Lawful? By not breaking any laws? Being Chaotic means not taking law into account when considering your own actions. If a settlement has laws in coordination with how my free spirit is inclined to act, would I start gaining Lawful?
I like the general idea, but it leads to the concepts of Alignment Grinding.
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Goblin Squad Member
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When a character finishes/fulfills a contract, I think she may get a Law gain, if she chooses to take it. (So Chaotic characters can do contracts and skip the Law gain if they choose.) Failure to fulfill a contract might always inflict a Chaos hit.
Characters who join appropriate factions may be able to take Enforcer-like missions and gain Law for killing Criminals. (They've said that the Enforcer flag will now be tied to alignment and faction membership.)
I expect there are or will be other avenues to gain Law if we choose to do so.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I also like this concept, a lot. First
It seems somewhat at odds with the intended function of Core Alignment, which is really what you aspire to, regardless of what you do.
There is the saying "Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans."
As the character gathers a history are my original aspirations still valid.
Testament: After 4 decades, my focus is quite different from initial aspirations of GREAT SCIENCE.
Also gravity is R squared law, twice as far is 1/4 the force; not linear.
lam
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think that this concept presents an interesting drift algorithm and present this for EDIT @Nightdrifter player's review. Definitely [coc]
1) law/chaos and good evil span the space and are handled separately (don't worry about square root of 2 as that doe snot have meaning)
2) When a hit to alignment a timer starts, separate timers for L/C and G/E. For a target design, 100 units equals 1 hour; e.g. 500 points equals 5 hours.
3) At end of the timer, the active alignment shifts some units ) toward core; if there is still difference, core shifts much smaller units toward active, For example, 100 for active and 10 for core.
4) If difference, new timer start with new differences for next reduction. (still at 500 equals 5 hours), go to 3; else stop.
5) quest have been proposed much smaller, 20 or 50 points. THese move both core and active.
Scenario 1:
A: character takes -500 point hits to active alignment.
B: 5 hours later active is now -400 and core is -10; delta is 390.
C: 3.9 hours later (8.9)active is now -300 and core is -20; delta is 280.
D: 2.8 hours more (11.7 hours); -200; -30; delta is 170
E; 1.7 hours more (13.4); -100; -40; delta is 60
F: .6 (total 14 hours); -40 ;-40 (there is intentional bias that core moves few times than active)
Scenario 2;
A: active takes -1000:
B: 10 hours, active -900, core -10; delta 900 (8 hours)
...
J: .1 hour (total 51.7), hours, active -90, core -90. (check my math!)
rewind was 3.5 times as long but core only slightly more than twice. for twice the shift.
Scenario 3:
A: shift -500, 5 hour timer starts. -500
B: before 5 hours, second 5 hour shift. -1000
C: 5 hours, active -900, core -10. next shifts take same time, but first 5 hours shorter.
...
K: .1 hour (total 46.7 hours total), active -90, core -90.
Simple to implement. The size of infraction controls timers, bigger infractions, longer time (+/- 1500 seems about 90 hours in this model). Little infractions under time almost as bad as an infraction equal to total.
If these are to large, adjust the time/rate, e.g 500 = 50 minutes or adjust the active/core shift,e.g. 100:10 to 100:5 or 100 to 1. This is a tunable, but represents a behavior driven drift of core.
If all of a characters on time is one way, are they really aspiring to core?
Infractions under timer are worse than waiting for cool down.
This is about characters acting out of alignment. The more out of alignment the greater the timer, but all shifts are small (in this model 1/10 of active shift. If core is accurate, there will be shifts plus and minus.
Lam's player [/coc]
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Goblin Squad Member
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Then for every three points of pull the core exerts on the active, the active exerts one point of pull on the core.Intriguing, making the core follow the active, but more slowly than the active follows the core. My initial impression: I like it.
Taking your gravity analogy a step further: should the pull between the active and core alignments be uniform, or should it vary as the distance between the two alignments increases? If we take a LG and a NN character, and they both drive their active alignment to CE, so that the LG-CE distance is twice the distance of NN-CE. Do their alignments return to rest in the same time - that is, does the LG-CE distance get covered faster? Or does it take the LG-CE character twice as long for his alignments to come back to rest since it's twice the distance? Or does the alignment recovery take even longer when your core and active are further apart?
I called it an elastic tether first because it's only loosely analogous to gravity. Gravity gets weaker with distance, and I don't think this should. I'm not sure about the effect getting stronger with distance either; perhaps that works well, or perhaps not.
Another possibility is the idea of a maximum distance, at which point the tether is no longer elastic. If a LG individual went totally berserk and started robbing and murdering innocents all over the place, the CE pull might max out and drag the character's core directly. I don't really think a strengthening pull or a point of max distance are necessary to model the drift concept, but they're ideas to explore.It seems somewhat at odds with the intended function of Core Alignment, which is really what you aspire to, regardless of what you do.
The ratio of 3:1 influence was just a number I threw out as an example. If it seems too at odds with the purpose of the core, then it could be weakened, so more points of active alignment movement are necessary to cause one point of core alignment drift. Say 5:1, 10:1, or whatever makes sense to represent the idea that, as you make rationalizations for for acting outside your ideals, the rationalizations become easier to make until you're just deluding yourself about what your real motives are.
Also, as I mentioned, things like atonement could be used to 'realign' your understanding of where you are in relation to who you want to be. Such a ceremony could give you 'quests' which would result in shifting your core in the desired direction. For example, to become more Lawful, such a 'quest' might be as simple as serving in the town guard of a Lawful settlement for X amount of time. Something like that would probably earn you Lawful points anyway, but the atonement means you're getting magical help to get a more enlightened perspective on the way your actions affect the world, and your time serving in the guard will either give you opportunities to exercise just authority or just a lot of time to think. Parking yourself and going AFK could be a bad idea though, as failing to react to a crime within your area of awareness could produce counter-productive results.
Anyway, the idea was somewhat inspired by thinking about the character development of Walter White from Breaking Bad. I think he becomes one of the best-written evil characters in recent media, and it takes the whole series to realize all the suffering he's caused and how far his real goals have drifted off the "I'll make this exception for my family" rationalization he started with.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Taking your gravity analogy a step further: should the pull between the active and core alignments be uniform, or should it vary as the distance between the two alignments increases?I called it an elastic tether first because it's only loosely analogous to gravity. Gravity gets weaker with distance, and I don't think this should.
Rereading through the thread, I think your initial ratio relationship probably is best, whether it is 3:1 or some other number. Simple numbers will probably make it easier for players to understand what is happening with their characters. Again, a good idea.