Having a discussion within the group I'm currently playing with. The oracle is under the impression that "resembling a golden-white fire elemental" and gaining the elemental subtype means they also gain fire resistance/immunity. Thoughts?
It doesn't turn you into a Fire Elemental. It turns you into an Elemental that RESEMBLES a Fire Elemental.
From the type, you gain these:
-Immunity to bleed, paralysis, poison, sleep effects, and stunning.
-Not subject to critical hits or flanking. Does not take additional damage from precision-based attacks, such as sneak attack.
-Proficient with natural weapons only, unless generally humanoid in form, in which case proficient with all simple weapons and any weapons mentioned in its entry.
-Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium, or heavy) it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter types. Elementals not indicated as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. Elementals are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any form of armor.
-Elementals do not breathe, eat, or sleep.
No more, no less.
Are you referring to the Form of Flame revelation that mimics Elemental Body? Because that does not give you the elemental subtype at all in any way whatsoever. Check the spell and the section on polymorphing.
Elemental body does give energy resistance 20, but does not give immunity to paralysis, poison, stunning or sleep. When you get to elem body 3 it gives you immunity to bleed damage, critical hits, and sneak attacks that is all.
He's talking about Energy Body, the Oracle of Life Revelation.
Is there really a distinction there? If so perhaps you can elaborate?
It doesn't turn you into a Fire Elemental. It turns you into an Elemental that RESEMBLES a Fire Elemental.
Err, yes, there's a big distinction.
Just because something resembles (i.e. looks similar to) something, does not mean it IS something.
A Bratwurst and a hot dog resemble each other, but they're not the same thing.
Twin brothers resemble each other, but they're not the same person.
Green apple Skittles and Lime Skittles resemble each other, but they're not the same thing.
And so on, and so forth.
Sometimes, even though it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck...it's not a duck. It's a funny looking goose.
Well... what this brings up for me is several things.
1) I don't think that you gain any of the abilities listed under creature types in the beastiary in addition to the regular effects of the spell just by gaining the subtype. This has been discussed before with the druid spell Awaken which turns an animal permanently into a magical beast. Even though it is a permanent type change, the animal does not convert to the BAB progression listed for magical beasts or gain darkvision. This could, however, be a special case.
2) He is gaining the elemental SUBtype... not changing to the elemental subtype. So if he is a human his new type would be Humanoid (Human, Elemental) noting that it says that you gain the subtype, not that it changes your subtype, so a ranger with favored enemy Humanoid(human) could still get bonuses on him, while a spell or effect that specifically targeted an elemental would also effect him.
3) The rules for Creature Sub-Types are pretty vague here... "a creature cannot violate the rules of its subtype without a special ability or quality to explain the difference" So is the fact that this is gained through the use of a supernatural ability a justifiable explaination? I don't know.
Here is the Spell Awaken:
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You awaken a tree or animal to human-like sentience. To succeed, you must make a Will save (DC 10 + the animal's current HD, or the HD the tree will have once awakened). The awakened animal or tree is friendly toward you. You have no special empathy or connection with a creature you awaken, although it serves you in specific tasks or endeavors if you communicate your desires to it. If you cast awaken again, any previously awakened creatures remain friendly to you, but they no longer undertake tasks for you unless it is in their best interests.
An awakened tree has characteristics as if it were an animated object, except that it gains the plant type and its Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores are each 3d6. An awakened plant gains the ability to move its limbs, roots, vines, creepers, and so forth, and it has senses similar to a human's.
An awakened animal gets 3d6 Intelligence, +1d3 Charisma, and +2 HD. Its type becomes magical beast (augmented animal). An awakened animal can't serve as an animal companion, familiar, or special mount.
An awakened tree or animal can speak one language that you know, plus one additional language that you know per point of Intelligence bonus (if any). This spell does not function on an animal or plant with an Intelligence greater than 2.
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Here is the ruling on Awaken:
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Awaken: Does changing the creature's type to "magical beast" affect its HD type, BAB, or other features? What about its 2 additional HD? How does training to wear barding relate to armor proficiency?
Only the animal's type changes to "magical beast"--it doesn't gain all the mathematical benefits for this type change (think of it as a "quick rules" version of adding a template to a creature).
The 2 HD it gains are d8s, just like its other animal HD.
An animal trained to wear barding can continue to do so without penalty once it is awakened. Once it's awakened, it can either spend a feat on armor proficiency or take class levels in a class that grants armor proficiency, just like any intelligent creature.
—Sean K Reynolds, 10/08/10
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