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As many people are already aware, the Mythic Adventures has an ability, called Divine Source, which allows for the Mythic character of Tier 3 or greater to grant Divine spells to followers.
This can have serious effects on a campaign setting, and it can lend well towards a different sort of paradigm. In the Stargate setting, there is a race that enslaves worlds and pretends to be gods. However, what if they were Mythic?
If the Goa'uld were actually Mythic beings, then they COULD be gods, given the context that they grant divine spells. Another example is Dark Sun with its Dragon Kings. I do not know what will happen in the new version (go to the Dragon Kings Kickstarter) but at least in the 2nd Edition version it had the Dragon Kings, also called Sorcerer Kings, granting spells to their followers, the Templars.
Anyway, this is in my opinion a cool idea. It makes use of the Mythic rules and makes at least one nation in a campaign make sense. I am envisioning kingdoms that are lead by Dragon Kings (and Queens) of the chromatic and metallic dragon types. Probably other types, too, as I think about it. It would give a state religion, a feel for that culture and just make sense given the context of Pathfinder. You get divine powers from your deity. Sure, in most cases that deity is on another plane of existence, but it surely does not have to be so!
Has anyone else already done something along these lines? Or maybe you have better ideas that you are willing to share?
I think this would be perfect for an eastern flavored game, with the worshipping the leaders as gods bit. If the leaders actually ARE gods that just makes it that much cooler.
When you make changes to the fundamental nature of a setting, such as putting magic and fantasy rules to a scifi setting like Stargate. then it's no longer that setting any more.
Yes, I realize that. I must have not been clear.
What I am talking about is the concept of a nation that REALLY IS ruled by gods. If you think about it, Golarion has several examples, but I am envisioning it on a potentially larger scale. What if the majority, if not all, of the deities in a given world are Mythic beings that dwell in that world (or a collection of worlds).
Given the Stargate example again, it really does lend well to a fantasy version of it. Drop the technology stuff, but you can still use the gates and the politics of different worlds where their gods walk among them and their power is real.
How different would such a story have been had the Goa'uld really had godlike powers? Personally, I am leaning towards having actual dragons in their place: freaking Mythic dragons. All of those times when people would wonder why they do not rule the world, well now they can.
When you make changes to the fundamental nature of a setting, such as putting magic and fantasy rules to a scifi setting like Stargate. then it's no longer that setting any more.
If the Goa'uld were actually Mythic beings, then they COULD be gods, given the context that they grant divine spells. Another example is Dark Sun with its Dragon Kings. I do not know what will happen in the new version (go to the Dragon Kings Kickstarter) but at least in the 2nd Edition version it had the Dragon Kings, also called Sorcerer Kings, granting spells to their followers, the Templars.
I think that's his point.
SeeleyOne WANTS to make things different. For fun.
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When you make changes to the fundamental nature of a setting, such as putting magic and fantasy rules to a scifi setting like Stargate. then it's no longer that setting any more.Yes, I realize that. I must have not been clear.
What I am talking about is the concept of a nation that REALLY IS ruled by gods. If you think about it, Golarion has several examples, but I am envisioning it on a potentially larger scale. What if the majority, if not all, of the deities in a given world are Mythic beings that dwell in that world (or a collection of worlds).
Given the Stargate example again, it really does lend well to a fantasy version of it. Drop the technology stuff, but you can still use the gates and the politics of different worlds where their gods walk among them and their power is real.
How different would such a story have been had the Goa'uld really had godlike powers? Personally, I am leaning towards having actual dragons in their place: freaking Mythic dragons. All of those times when people would wonder why they do not rule the world, well now they can.
I would say an egyptian/osirian campaign would play well with this with the god kings actually being able to grant spells as gods and kind of help avoid my biggest issue with the system as presented which is having these characters who can grant spells but only give out 2 domains and have not the full array.
I'll have to toss a dot here.
When you make changes to the fundamental nature of a setting, such as putting magic and fantasy rules to a scifi setting like Stargate. then it's no longer that setting any more.
If the Goa'uld were actually Mythic beings, then they COULD be gods, given the context that they grant divine spells. Another example is Dark Sun with its Dragon Kings. I do not know what will happen in the new version (go to the Dragon Kings Kickstarter) but at least in the 2nd Edition version it had the Dragon Kings, also called Sorcerer Kings, granting spells to their followers, the Templars.
So?
I already have been thinking of having a high mythical and magical Roman/Greek sorta setting with the gods being powerful mythical humans, guiding their people into an golden age of civilization and prosperity, in a world filled with primal powers, mythical beasts and weird fey.
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Razmir's a high-level wizard. He must not be mythic, or at least not tier 3. Kind of like a really competent individual who's never realized his true potential, or someone who, while highly competent, lacks the "spark" of true greatness. Hmm.
Or he's an Archmage rather than a Hierophant, so godhood is metaphorical rather than actual.
Divine Source is a general mythic ability, not Heirophant-specific.
I'm considering taking it when my fighter finally gets mythic tiers then later playing in a campaign as Dog, the dog, Paladin of Master.
Razmir's a high-level wizard. He must not be mythic, or at least not tier 3. Kind of like a really competent individual who's never realized his true potential, or someone who, while highly competent, lacks the "spark" of true greatness. Hmm.
i thought i saw james mention him having tiers.
Wouldn't the stargate aliens handing their minions advanced technology have a similar effect? To the uneducated, it is indistinguishable from god-given magic/miracles,
I'm keeping my eye on this, I've been wanting to see a fantasy themed stargate for a while.
Just as an aside. The Ori were a better example of Mythic than the Goa'uld. Ascended beings that granted power to their followers? Check and check!
Aren't the upper tiers of Outsiders capable of granting domains without being divine themselves? Archdevils (except Asmodeus), Demon Lords, Whore Queens and more are all not true gods but do grant divine spells.
Yes, you guys are getting what I mean. The rules now support these concepts within the framework of the reality that the rules create. I can't believe that the Ori did not come to mind.
Another example is similar to the oriental Emperor-is-God theme, being from Warhammer 40k. The Terrans are ruled by their God-Emperor. In his case, I think that he might now be undead, or otherwise sleeping, but the concept is the same: the Mythic Beings are active in the setting. The Gods Walk Among Us.
Before Mythic it seemed to me to be a stupid concept. However, now that it is more or less quantified with the game mechanics back it up, it makes more sense. I guess it seemed silly to me to have super-duper people running around, which is the main part of my complaint against the Forgotten Realms (which otherwise felt generic to me).
I can recall a book from several years ago called Ascension, the writer had a name like Immortal or something. It made an attempt to do similar with the Epic rules. It had some really neat ideas in it, but the writer stopped before it was really done. I had bought it from his site, and he kept giving updates until he suddenly stopped doing so. The version that I saw on RPGNow might be completed.
What I can recall from it was that the worshipped being would get more power based on how many followers there were. There were also benefits for temples, rites, and whatnot. I bet someone could make an Ultimate Campaign adaptation of those ideas. You could play a whole god-politic game that is reminiscent in some ways of the Amber diceless game.
There were a couple of posts where people were talking about using technology. Well, I am of two minds on that. My initial idea was to just keep it fantasy. But I do have a deep love for spaceships and guns. I have not seen much for Pathfinder in space. There is a fantasy version that has not been published yet, called something like Sailing the Starlit skies or somesuch. I would love to see a treatment of a sci-fi rules. I think some people have looked into d20 Future, but when I looked at those a few years back they seemed so.... underwhelming.
The original intent of this post was to get people thinking about the concept of mythic people being worshipped by people while they traipse around the world, but seeing some of the posts it appears that people want me to actually SHARE DEVELOPED IDEAS. Jerks, now I am thinking that perhaps I will have to do just that, and make it grow beyond merely the "notes" phase that too many of my ideas get stuck at.
B-dot-dot-b'dot.
"Not dead but sleeping?" Why does the 40K God-Emperor suddenly sound like Cthulhu?
"Not dead but sleeping?" Why does the 40K God-Emperor suddenly sound like Cthulhu?
Considering he watched humanity since the beginning, and he's supposed to literally be a sort of uber-creature, I can imagine he'd seem like cthulu to any non-human (he wasnt exactly the most tolerant type, and his followers where even worse).
No wonder the Universe of the 40th millennium is so screwed up!
Yeah, and that's not even counting the evil demon-god created by the hedonism of space-elves.
A 7th level Cleric can grant spells too. That doesn't make them Gods.
A 7th level Cleric can grant spells too. That doesn't make them Gods.
Most people would agree with you. However, if you were in a nation or society that was led to believe that they WERE gods, it is hard to dispute their power.
That 7th level character COULD get their power from a Mythic Tier 3 being. In this sense, as far as that 7th-level Cleric is concerned, that being IS a god.
This turns common theology on its head, but who cares? It's a game, and it makes the setting interesting and fun for those that play in it. "You worship a false god". "Really, then why did I just raise the dead? Doesn't your god do that? How can you dispute it? My god has the same powers as your god".
It makes it so my Follower of The Great Emperor and His One True Way can have real power when he declares "by the Word of the Emperor, you shall be DOOMED!". If I recall correctly, many that have claimed royal blood claimed that they had a divine right to rule. In this case, it can be more literal, where the Blood Royal is also the Blood Mythic.
Some of the posts on this thread have me teetering between fantasy or futuristic for my own setting. I have been leaning on a magic-is-technology idea for a while, but space travel.... I dunno, I still prefer "real" space ships. Sailboats in space is cool, but fighter pilots and laser beams are just so much cooler in my mind.
Warhammer 40k is a bit too grim for me, but I do like many of the concepts that it has. The Emperor of Man is one very notable example. The Tau are cool, and I can see their Paladins having a very interesting idea as to what really is the Greater Good.
The Force is often considered to be a religion, but to be honest I see it more as Psionics at best, or at least a variation of Ki Power. It is not quite Divine-Power worthy in my opinion.
Most sci-fi settings tend to ignore the existence of religion, or at least it is relegated as more of a cultural belief than a source of kewl powerz. By slapping Mythic into the mix, it is possible to have gods. Sure, they are not the Creators of the Universe, but they do gain power from followers, and they do grant power to their followers, so they could technically be gods. I would see them more as cults, but full-blown religions are possible, and especially so when you lead a nation such as the 40k Terrans or the Stargate Goa'uld or Orii. Also, as mentioned, it is a great way to have demon/devil worship for the naughtier parts of society.
Are you oppressed by the Psionics or Wizards of Society? You jealous that they have powers and you don't have the super-duper gene that gives you access to it? Join a cult and get yourself some powers, too. Sure, there is a catch, but hey, it is little compared to wielding power of your own.
As a response to the OPs last post: I've done a little bit of thinking on the subject, and I've started building up a campaign idea that basically fuses this with spelljamer. I might not go in the direction of warhammer (it's fun, but WAY too bombastic). I think it would be interesting to work through the whole "mythic gods" concept with the goaould/asgard/orii. It wouldnt be literal transmutations, but it could be fun.
I wrote a fanfic, where Gilgamesh stole power from the Gaold, and had evolved into an ascended demigod. He was sharing his alchemicle secrets with Albert Weston, an archiologist about to join the SGC. Saint Germain was a previous apprentice. The fanfic takes place in Gilgamesh's tomb, where Weston found him.
I never got around to the next chapter where Weston is being debriefed by Jack Oneil. Weston's teammate, a Russian, who I haven't settled on a name, had been turned into a Gaold assasin, was given an injection by Weston, which restored his free will. Jack Oneil would probably say, "At least I know who you're working for. Welcome to the SGC."
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I am definitely a Stargate fan. I kind of came into the series backwards, though. I started with Stargate Atlantis, and then got into SG-1. I have all of the DVD sets of those two series. I saw the movie when it came out, it is pretty good, but I like the shows a whole lot more. Some of the characters annoyed me at first, but I got to like them after a while.
Your story sounds like it would be fun, and even better as an adventure,
Feel free to develop it. The freedom discovery could be an alchemist thing. Temporarily freeing a Gaold or even a vampire might give them a save to gain permanent self control when the magic ends. Westin might have changed over from a 10th level expert to a 10th level alchemist.
As you can see, I'm less familiar with Mythic adventures.
Mythic Adventures is more of an "add on", but it does not feel like it is taped on with duct-tape. In my opinion it is a more natural extension or progression to the Pathfinder rules.
At any rate, they support having people that become Mythic be able to develop an ability that allows them to grant Divine spells to their followers. It connects some dots in the whole Cleric concept, as most settings have multiple deities to choose from.
Another way to think of Mythic is to think of it as "Legendary". When you think of legends and folk-lore it makes more sense. Some ancient examples are Ulysses, Morgan Le Fay, and Merlin. Some modern examples are James Bond, Rambo, and Riddick.
Regarding the overall lack of Pathfinder in space, I have found a couple of items.
The first is an adventure path by EN Publishing, called SANTIAGO: A Myth of the Far Future. The guides that are published along with it cover the rules needed for the setting, characters, and playing the adventures. Here is A LINK. Be sure to get the Pathfinder version, as they also have a 4th edition version (unless, of course, you do want that).
The second, which appears to be more generic and therefore useful for a futuristic Mythic game, is by what I think might be a "nobody" and it is new product. Anyway, it is called Between Chains and Starlight, and it
LOOKS INTERESTING indeed.
Going back to the thoughts of the Goa'uld, I have it in print, but I find that I do not see well enough to make use of a print book, so a pdf of EGYPTIAN ADVENTURES - Hamunaptra by Green Ronin might be a good idea.
Great, because I had an idea for time travelers coming back to the magical age to research magic. They are trying to invent warp drive or find a cure for some disease.