|
We've been shouting at each other for awhile, and this thread isn't for that.
Let us assume for the moment that we have a GM who plans to follow this FAQ to the letter, including the example. That means he will allow only three reloads maximum, and less if the PC plans to use any other free actions. Of course it's hyperbole, but let's see what it does to the class. I want to see if we can still build an effective character using other class features, like Dead Shot and Vital Strike.
Dead Shot: We can pool multiple attacks into one shot, and we do an extra die of damage for every hit. I'm not sure if Dead Shot includes extra attacks like from haste and Rapid Shot. If it does, it's probably okay. Big downsides include not getting increased damage based on the number of hits other than a die increase. As for upsides, it's a great way to crit-fish, as a single 20 (or 19 with Improved Critical) is enough to warrant a confirmation roll. A thundering pistol or musket could be looking at an excellent amount of damage on a critical hit, although it would be pretty lackluster at any other time.
Vital Strike: It's extra damage I suppose. Unfortunately it doesn't improve on a critical hit, but a musket is looking at an extra 6.5 damage. Is there a version of gravity bow for guns? Improved and Greater Vital Strike means that a single shot is doing 4d12 damage (average of 26) plus relevant modifiers. However, that's going to pale to any other ranged attacker. Keep in mind that Greater Vital Strike is available at level 16.
Utility Stuff: Gunslingers partner well with rogues and vivisectionists, who can enjoy a full round of an enemy being flat-footed with no save. Targeted Shot is also an excellent ability. However, at this point the gunslinger is not a primary damage dealer.
In any case, can people come up with a viable build for a gunslinger with limited free actions? To set a definition for viable, let's say that he should be, if not equal to, at least not horribly inferior to an equal level archer.
Let's NOT bring in magic items that are only available in the late stages of a campaign. A glove of storing might be okay, although that's a free action to use if I recall. The issue with the pistol of the infinite sky is that you have to get to a high enough level to use it, and even then, what if I wanted to use muskets? Ideally, a gunslinger can function enjoyably from level 1 on, right?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Is it guns everywhere setting? If yes you take one level of gunslinger choose pistol for "Gun Training" (or musket but pistol is better see Two-Weapon fighting) and take the rest in fighter the only problem is you go from a feat every level to 2 feats every other level.
If it's not guns everywhere you take 5 levels of gunslinger and 15 levels of fighter for "Gun Training" see above.
Now that you can add your dex damage to your pistol you spend all of those beautiful extra feats from fighter you spend them on two-weapon fighter feats and on ranged weapons feats.
I recently played in a game where at 5th level I had a +2 belt of dex, a +1 pistol and a mwk pistol with a base dex of 18 +2 Race as well. I had a 22dex.
I was doing up to 3 attacks a round (two-weapon fighting and rapid shot) doing +9/+9/+9 dealing 1d8+7/1d8+7/1d8+6 with a X4 multiplier on a crit (only a 5% chance but still). If I was in 30ft I got a +1 to all of those from point-blank shot. With weapon cords I can do the following with 3 free actions every round: full attack drop one reload (2 free actions) pick it up (swift) and still have a free action.
I'm doing an average (not including my point blank) of 33dmg a turn attacking touch AC within 100 feat (at 100ft I get a minus 8). When I would crit I would do about 42 damage between the three attacks (that was only with one crit).
I can add the two-weapon rend ability to my attacks in two level with two more attacks. At 7th level (1 gunslinger 6 fighter) I get improved two-weapon fighting and two-weapon rend. I can probably have both my pistols be +1 at this point.
I now will be doing +11/+11/+11/+11/+11 dealing 1d8+7 with each of them. That's 57dmg a round when I do a full round attack and hit (you usually hit with your attacks since you hit touch AC). If I hit with both my weapons I do an extra 1d10 +1.5 my Str modifier (Two-weapon rend doesn't specify you have to hit with a melee weapon).
At 9th level (1 gunslinger 8 fighter) I take the feat that lets me attack with my postol adjacent to you w/o provoking AOOs (I don't remember what it's called) and snap shot so I can use AOOs on you when you try to run from me. Did I mention I'm taking the two-weapon fighting Arch-Type? Because i can attack with both my weapons for that AOO.
The best part about a gunslinger is that the only stat I need is my dex. I don't need Str for damage, I'm long range so my Con isn't that important, Grit isn't that important so I only need a 14 or so Wis. Cha and Int can be sacked. I'll still get 2 skill points a level.
The Gunslinger's biggest problem is misfire. At low level when you don't have magic items you have a caster know mending so that you can fix it for a 0lv spell. The next thing I put on my gun is reliable I no longer have to worry about misfire.
I was asked to not run a gunslinger and made my DM admit that they are in fact broken about a week ago. I was attempting to break it in the first place to prove a point so I didn't have a problem dropping the PC.
That is why a gunslinger is broken you gets the extra attacks of a two-weapon fighter and a ranged fighter, you only need one ability score to be great and a few to be average like a wizard (not to mention that one ability has to do with your AC), and your attacks are all touch AC within 100ft (200ft at the cost of a feat).
If you're not in guns everywhere it may take a little longer to get both your guns but it's still very doable by 7th level.
I have a mysterious stranger gunslinger that uses dead shot (signature deed). I like the utility stuff the class offers. But I also play with people who do not have hyper optimized characters.
Anyhow I've used stuff like the called shot to disarm people or knock bad guys over etc. The only issue is grit. But the char does 1 free action a round with lightning reload.
Don't think you can combine vital strike and dead shot if that's what you were getting at.
Although, I think Dead Shot is still plenty effective. I might be in the minority, but I don't mind ranged characters in general doing a bit less damage. Thus far they can do as much damage as a melee fighter, and do it well out of harm's way.
|
|
You definitely can't combine Dead Shot and Vital Strike. In any case, I'm less than optimistic that a ranged attacker can function without a full attack.
I have however, come up with a build that doesn't reload. If the GM is willing to allow Quick-Draw to run rampant with free actions, then a rather silly build might occur:
Human paladin (oath of vengeance) 4/gunslinger (mysterious stranger) 8
Str 10, Dex 16, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 8, Cha 18
pal 1 Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot
pal 2
gun 3 Rapid Shot
pal 4 Cha +1
pal 5 Quick-Draw
gun 6
gun 7 Two-Weapon Fighting
gun 8 Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Cha +1
gun 9 Deadly Aim
gun 10
gun 11 Improved Precise Shot
gun 12 Greater Two-Weapon Fighting, Cha +1
Using non-magical mwk pistols and dagger pistols (20 of each), along with muleback cords and the ant haul spell cast off a wand, a character could go about loaded up with fire and drop pistols. At low levels he makes use of dagger pistols (cheaper and more versatile), keeping two constantly loaded in spring-loaded wrist sheaths. Upon getting Quick-Draw, he also gets the ability to convert his lay on hands uses to smites, giving him a damage boost similar to the standard gunslinger against evil targets.
Of course, the free action issue occurs again. The GM would either have to allow free actions to drop spent pistols as part of the attack, or the slinger would have to spend some of his iteratives throwing his dagger pistols point first into his enemies. Luckily, smite evil will give bonuses to all attacks, and an argument could be made that a mysterious stranger's Focused Aim applies to a dagger pistol even when thrown. Given grit issues, it's very important that he brings someone down in one round of attacks (or executes many daring deeds!)
He can also fall back on Deadshot at level 11, which is about when it starts to get good anyway.
There is the first point. Dagger pistols in spring loaded wrist sheaths?
Definately a borderline and at least subject to table-variation.
|
|
Of course! Quick-Draw will alleviate that a bit, but we still have to worry about hard caps on free actions then.
Deadshot is the ultimate fallback, but that is still a decent amount of damage for a mysterious stranger at least.
At level 12 I had Deadshot numbers of +13/+8/+3 (1d8+14/x4); every hit increases the damage by 1d8+6. Not amazing, especially for the cost of a grit point, but it's something to fall back upon in the case of a harsh GM.