Precise Bombs with Tanglefoot and Blinding Bomb

[Hobbun]

I have read more than once on different threads that an Alchemist cannot use Precise Bombs to negate squares affected by the AoE bombs such as Stink, Inferno, Poison or Plague Bomb. But what about Tanglefoot or Blinding Bomb?

Precise bombs: Whenever the alchemist throws a bomb, he can select a number of squares equal to his Intelligence modifier that [b wrote:

are not affected by the splash damage[/b] from his bombs. If the bomb misses, this discovery has no effect.

So am I reading that correctly in that Precise Bombs would negate the splash damage, but it would not stop the entangled or dazzled effects?

[Hobbun]

So no input at all?

[Joesi]

RAW says indeed it would only negate the splash damage.
However, it's certainly reasonable for someone to think that the RAI meant splash (not just splash damage), and hence it would affect it.

However, realism-wise (and perhaps balance-wise as well), for things like smoke cloud and fog cloud it doesn't make sense to selectively remove squares.
I could see blinding bomb and tanglefoot bomb though.

So in summary RAW is clear, but GM can make a reasonable houserule for specific discoveries.

[Hobbun]

Thanks Joesi.

I’m actually surprised there was no other input on this, I guess Alchemists with splash effects are not used all too often in general.

The problem with the “GM making a reasonable houserule” is my Alchemist is in Society, so you are not going to have a houserule, but table variation, and was really hoping for something more concrete, even if it’s someone explaining why it’s ruled ‘x’ way.

Obviously an official ruling is what I hope for, but considering no one else seems to be having this issue or FAQing the post, I don’t see that happening.

As for the AoE bombs (Smoke, Stink, etc.) if you ‘are’ able to remove squares for the Tanglefoot Bomb or Blinding Bomb because they still do splash damage, I see no reason why you can’t with the AoE bombs, either, at least the squares where splash damage is done. The AoE of the smoke/stink/inferno bombs do double the splash radius, so I can see the outside 5’ not being able to use Precise Bombs. However, the 5’ around the target of the bomb, I don’t see why you couldn’t because you are doing splash damage in those squares.

[GreenMandar]

Well Joesi pretty much said what I think. I would like it if precise bombs was worded differently to include secondary splash effects. But it's not so I'll have to run that by my GM when that becomes relevant to my alchemist.
As far as smoke clouds, etc created by bombs, those are completely separate effects from splash, so even if Precise bomb included secondary or non damage splash effects, it wouldn't include them.

[Hobbun]

I feel as it's written now, strictly RAW, none of the effects from Bombs (minus effects that include damage, like from Explosive Bomb) should be included from Precise Bomb. I don't like it, as I have an Alchemist, but that's how it reads.

My feelings are that if Blinding Bomb or Tanglefoot Bomb are allowed usable with Precise Bombs, I see no reason not to allow the smoke, stink, plague, etc. bombs, as well. Just because they do double the area of effect of splash, there is still splash damage (as indicated from the FAQ), so the splash squares should be allowed (if they are allowed for Blinding or Tanglefoot).

[GreenMandar]

Those are continuing effects, how would you have that work following rounds? Why could it be excluded from a square with splash radius, but not outside the splash radius?

[DrakeRoberts]

I can see a RAW argument for Tanglefoot not affecting those avoided with Precise Bombs. Tanglefoot (for the non-direct hit effect) affects only those who fail their saves. The saves are granted to those caught in the splash damage (via the Bombs ability). Precise bombs keep individuals from being affected by splash damage. No damage -> no save -> no entangle. Unless, of course, you read it as those Precise Bomb'd out by a non-Tanglefoot bomb have to make saves, but all damage received is afterwards reduced to 0.