Discharging a Touch spell through accidental contact. What exactly applies?


Rules Questions

The Exchange

Scenario: a wizard casts Shocking Grasp, moves up and gets his free attack on a human, but misses. He gets to hold the charge.

Later in the initiative, the enemy retaliates and hits the wizard with a metal longsword.

1. Does the Shocking Grasp discharge into the enemy and hurt him, since he is in contact with the wizard that is holding the charge on Shocking Grasp?

What if the enemy grapples the wizard?

What if the wizard is hit by an arrow? Does it discharge into the arrow?

I have a Dervish Dancing Rogue with Crane Style. When I get Crane Wing and I am fighting defensively, I can redirect a melee attack per round so that it doesn't actually hit me. If a wizard runs up and tries to shocking grasp me, rolls well enough to beat my touch AC, but I redirect his hand, does he still count as touching me and thus the spell zaps me?

The Exchange

I can't seem to find agreement anywhere on this subject


Belryan wrote:
I can't seem to find agreement anywhere on this subject

It may seem counterintuitive, but the rules seem to differentialte between touching someone and being touched by someone. Because the rules for touch spells are silent on what happens when someone touches you, expect nothing to happen then. Spells that damage those that hit you, e.g. fire shield, tell you so.

So, in order to discharge a touch spell, you have to act yourself, either by attacking with a touch attack or unarmed Strike/natural attack, or by grabbing something.

Lots of other scenarios are imaginable, but the rules do not mention them, so ignore them. An example: If you told the DM that you actively touch the ground, your touch spell charge would discharge. However, standing on the ground does not discharge the spell. Kicking an opponent does, however. If the ground was an enemy and you kicked him with an unarmed strike or talon if you had one, the spell would discharge, although standing on the same ground is exactly the same, but would not discharge the spell. So you can either go the complicated way and try to reason through an increasingly complex system of what constitutes touching, or just go by the rules and ignore the "imagine-it-was-real-life" thoughts. Rules say, the spell discharges when you either attack or actively touch something. Not when you fall prone or stand up, not when you swim, not when you ride a horse. Your DM is free to say when it does count (climbing might be touching something for some DMs, although walking isn't...), that's his right as the DM, although fairness would demand that he allows you to undo the action then, seeing that your spellcaster would know that this action discharges the spell. But otherwise, go the easy route.

The Exchange

i believe the charge is held in your hand. so no to all of the above as your hand is not touching anything.

ie: don't assume the enemy is stupid. Its a GM call, as some might be.

crane wing deflects the attack, but it doesn't say you touch him. so the charge is held. and crane wing specifically mentions not being harmed.

The Exchange

Thanks!


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber

In all the cases you specify, the held charge does not discharge.

You have to actively touch something to discharge the spell, such as opening a door or retrieving an item (assuming your other hand isn't free to do that).

Even though there are no rules for it, I would allow an attacker to attempt to intentionally get himself zapped by your held charge, but otherwise simply attacking/grappling someone who has a held charge does not automatically discharge it.


@GeneticDrift and @SlimGauge

Holding a charge is not associated with hands, or a given specific hand.

i.e, you cannot, by the rules, hold a charge in one hand and use the other to manipulate items. Or hold a charge in your hands and kick down a door.

Also, if you have a bite attack, there is nothing I'm aware of, that prevents you from delivering a held charge through the bite. (Or tail slap, wing hit, etc).

As harzerkatze pointed out, something touching you as opposed to you touching something are different things - and expect your GM to have to make a ruling on a lot of things like reactive efforts on your part from falling, being struck, being tripped, being grappled, etc.


bbangerter wrote:

@GeneticDrift and @SlimGauge

Holding a charge is not associated with hands, or a given specific hand.

i.e, you cannot, by the rules, hold a charge in one hand and use the other to manipulate items. Or hold a charge in your hands and kick down a door.

Also, if you have a bite attack, there is nothing I'm aware of, that prevents you from delivering a held charge through the bite. (Or tail slap, wing hit, etc).

As harzerkatze pointed out, something touching you as opposed to you touching something are different things - and expect your GM to have to make a ruling on a lot of things like reactive efforts on your part from falling, being struck, being tripped, being grappled, etc.

I believe they FAQ'd that it was in fact held in one hand at one point.

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