Handle Animal Defend trick

[勝20100]

I thought that if an animal had the defend trick it automatically defended because of the text “even without any command being given”. But it indicates “you” so I think I got it wrong, because anyone having the skill could be that you.

Should it be used this way:
1. Someone uses the Handle animal skill to have the animal perform the Defend trick.
2. From now on, the animal defends the you/designated target, and you don’t need to ask him to defend at the time he needs too (maybe hours later).

[MordredofFairy]

勝20100 wrote:

I thought that if an animal had the defend trick it automatically defended because of the text “even without any command being given”. But it indicates “you” so I think I got it wrong, because anyone having the skill could be that you.

Should it be used this way:
1. Someone uses the Handle animal skill to have the animal perform the Defend trick.
2. From now on, the animal defends the you/designated target, and you don’t need to ask him to defend at the time he needs too (maybe hours later).

"You" to us always meant the person "handling"(not skillwise, but fluffwise) the animal, in regular cases, the owner.

Here is much to be said for using common sense.

You can't use "Handle Animal" to "push" the enemy druids animal companion to attack the druid.

Animals have 1, maybe 2 owners. They are automatically defended if need be.

Just because the Party Ranger then "pushes" the wizards dog to do something(like "defend") will not mean hours later it will automatically defend him.

It will revert back to "defending" it's owner, whoever else that is.

In short: use common sense as to who the "focus" of the animal is. Pushing changes nothing about that...ongoing neglect by the owner or a long-standing training-relationship with a party member may.
But thats for GM to decide.

All in all, they are not a pair of magical slippers you hand over to someone else without caring, they are unintelligent(mostly) living(mostly) beings that have a relationship of sorts with their owner(s).

[RedDogMT]

勝20100 wrote:

I thought that if an animal had the defend trick it automatically defended because of the text “even without any command being given”. But it indicates “you” so I think I got it wrong, because anyone having the skill could be that you.

Should it be used this way:
1. Someone uses the Handle animal skill to have the animal perform the Defend trick.
2. From now on, the animal defends the you/designated target, and you don’t need to ask him to defend at the time he needs too (maybe hours later).

MordredofFairy makes good points. There are no rules for 'default behavior' of animals. Common sense should prevail.

When one of my Ranger players purchased and trained a normal dog, I let him decide on the default manerism of the dog (since he trained it). He chose a defensive behavior given the breed is a bulldog and it is just what he wanted. So, when a conflict occurs, the dog will defend his master. As in RL, there could be a time when the dog gets defensive at the wrong time too.

My players do not have full control of their animal companions. They are aware that I consider them to be NPCs that they have a significant influence over. Players get to roll attacks, damage, saves, and Handle Animal checks, but I control movement and behavior.

[MordredofFairy]

RedDogMT wrote:

My players do not have full control of their animal companions. They are aware that I consider them to be NPCs that they have a significant influence over. Players get to roll attacks, damage, saves, and Handle Animal checks, but I control movement and behavior.

Just wanted to add that i handle it the exact same way, and it's also the (suggested) official way Animal Companions(and animals) are to be handled.

[勝20100]

So everyone that answered thinks that it’s 1 and that you don’t need to use the trick beforehand; that the animal will defend its owner/handler if he has the trick.

RedDogMT:

I think one of the point of training a dog is also to avoid having it attack anyone without reasons.

--

If I ask questions about animal rules, it’s because I want to use them correctly (as a player and GM).
My character that has a guard dog takes the move action to have him attack. If the enemy is unnatural she doesn’t bother pushing it because it is a full-round action and she has better things to do than spend that much time having him attack.

[RedDogMT]

勝20100 wrote:

I think one of the point of training a dog is also to avoid having it attack anyone without reasons.

Hey 勝20100...I don't disagree with you on that point; but isn't every action predicated upon a choice, a reason? Animals make mistakes just as people do. They are not infallible, but a dog's training should curtail many of the natural tendencies that an untrained animal would normally have.

Players can FEEL that their animals are well-trained and would never make a mistake. There are dog owners in RL who believe that; and some of their perfectly trained animals attack people when it's not what they would have wanted...

[james maissen]

勝20100 wrote:

I thought that if an animal had the defend trick it automatically defended because of the text “even without any command being given”. But it indicates “you” so I think I got it wrong, because anyone having the skill could be that you.

Should it be used this way:
1. Someone uses the Handle animal skill to have the animal perform the Defend trick.
2. From now on, the animal defends the you/designated target, and you don’t need to ask him to defend at the time he needs too (maybe hours later).

Tricks are the means to inform an animal to do a non-standard behavior.

The defend trick, once 'used', communicates to the animal that it needs to defend rather than what it might otherwise do (say 5' and attack, charge and pounce, move into flanking, etc).

It does not require the handler to make checks afterwards to get the animal to continue to defend (until the animal is severely wounded at least).

As the others have said animals (whether companions or not) are NPCs and as such are controlled by the DM. The animal handler has a means to get the NPC to do certain things by communicating that need forcefully enough to the animal.

In practice many DMs have the PCs run allied NPCs and in the case of those allied NPCs that are a result of a class, feat, or ability this confuses players into thinking that the NPC is a second PC for them. It is not. It is the DM letting a player help them out.. much like when DMs have a player track initiative.

-James