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I don't understand this thread...
what classes with face skill DON'T work well in PFS?
My level 13 cleric has good face skills (20+ diplomacy and a decent sense motive), but the people that he regularly goes on missions with won't let him talk to people because he is a compulsive liar (+32 bluff - without using the mask of stony demeanor) and is more than a little crazy.
The rogue can struggle a bit.I don't understand this thread...
what classes with face skill DON'T work well in PFS?
There's a trait for that:
Clever Wordplay or Student of Philosophy
That uhh... doesn't help the rogue so much as the wizard or magus.
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If we're going to split hairs about wording, the trait wouldn't do anything for Diplomacy, as it talks about persuading others while the only uses for Diplomacy besides gathering information are influencing attitude and making requests.
It would probably cover the making requests part since thats something arguable and specific.
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Why all of this rogue hate? I believe, Matastrophic, and I may be wrong, your aristocrat character has achieved 20th level in PFS. I may be wrong.
The rogue is a very flexible character, and you can build and fill all sorts of character concepts with the class.
The best thing that ever happened to it was changing the name from thief to rogue.
Hmm I wish they did the same thing to the monk...I think Martial Artist is a much better name for the class. But I digress.
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That uhh... doesn't help the rogue so much as the wizard or magus.The rogue can struggle a bit.I don't understand this thread...
what classes with face skill DON'T work well in PFS?
There's a trait for that:
Clever Wordplay or Student of Philosophy
I agree that it would be more helpful to a wizard or magus, but most rogues that I have seen and/or made have at least had intelligence as their secondary attribute. I wish that I had known about clever wordplay when I made my magus. Adding both his strength and intelligence to intimidate would be delicious.
I also agree that student of philosophy is somewhat limited. That is why I would rather take clever wordplay. In my opinion, a constant bonus in one skill is preferable to situational bonuses in two skills.
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Why all of this rogue hate? I believe, Matastrophic, and I may be wrong, your aristocrat character has achieved 20th level in PFS.
You are correct, Myles, she has achieved 20th level.
For about nine months now, a certain segment of the board community has undertaken a quest to create posts and threads which generate rogue hate. It's gotten to be a little much at this point.
-Matt
For about nine months now, a certain segment of the board community has undertaken a quest to create posts and threads which generate rogue hate. It's gotten to be a little much at this point.
Alternatively, people have been posting their opinions on rogue talents, their mechanical value, and comparing them to their peers. Doesn't have to be hate. Usually pointing out problems is a way of saying "Hey, this could use some work or help! I think it might be underperforming" rather than "Gosh I hate rogues! They're so dirty and rogue-y!".
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If you want a face type with skills and even some comabt ability nothing beats a bard. Several versatile performances let you use perform in place of diplomacy, intimidate, or bluff. With a decent int you get enough skill points to go around, bonuses to knowledges, and almost everything is a class skill for you. Take a few archery feats and you can do some decent dps as well. The use of heroism and bard song can really help make up for lack of a full BAB and you help everyone else out as well. Grease, Glitterdust, and heroism are some of the best spells for a wide variety of situations. In PFS there are many social encounters and a good bard can be a huge help.
Not that it's a bad idea to go with an archer bard - but no one ever mentions the melee bard.
The melee bard does have pretty low dpr - but they don't need it. They're doing their job just taking hits with what can be a very solid AC. (I don't think I've been in a group with anyone with an AC as high as my level 4 bard since level 2 - it's what I spend nearly all my loot on.)
Between tanking/buffing/being a good flank-buddy (with tumble) - he pulls his weight in combat.
Not to mention being the group face (I hate having no face in a group - so I usually just roll one) and OOC healing (ended up as the only healer once or twice). Bard really is the jack of all trades / master of none, but in PFS when you don't know who's gonna sit down at the table with you - it's good to be able to fill in the gaps.
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Not that it's a bad idea to go with an archer bard - but no one ever mentions the melee bard.
Heh, I'll mention it. I've played two in PFS, one to 13th and the other to 8th. Starting with 17-18 Strength and taking Power Attack is pretty much all you need to do melee. Arcane Strike is effectively Weapon Specialization, and the combination of Inspire Courage and Heroism is particularly overwhelming.
Meanwhile, the archer-bard is just so feat-intensive, and needs two attack stats, while the melee-bard needs one feat and one stat.
-Matt
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For about nine months now, a certain segment of the board community has undertaken a quest to create posts and threads which generate rogue hate. It's gotten to be a little much at this point.Alternatively, people have been posting their opinions on rogue talents, their mechanical value, and comparing them to their peers. Doesn't have to be hate. Usually pointing out problems is a way of saying "Hey, this could use some work or help! I think it might be underperforming" rather than "Gosh I hate rogues! They're so dirty and rogue-y!".
Or the rogue is just filling the joke niche of the bards in 3.5.
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Not that it's a bad idea to go with an archer bard - but no one ever mentions the melee bard.Heh, I'll mention it. I've played two in PFS, one to 13th and the other to 8th. Starting with 17-18 Strength and taking Power Attack is pretty much all you need to do melee.
Where do you sacrifice your stats for that much strength? I went finesse with my bard - strength of only 12. (Like I said - low damage.)
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Here is the skeleton of my Rahadoumi melee bard. He wields a longspear and kicks some ass. He's currently almost to level 4 where I will have to decide if his first 2nd level spell is Heroism or Gallant Inspiration.
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Where do you sacrifice your stats for that much strength? I went finesse with my bard - strength of only 12. (Like I said - low damage.)The first one was 15+2/14/14/12/7/14, while the second was 16+2/14/12/12/7/14. So... Wisdom.
-Matt
Fair enough - mine's basically the dex version of the 1st one without dropping Wis quite so far. 12/14+2/14/12/8/14 Like I said - mine is based around defense/support. (glad I kept Con at 14 - got critted by a great axe at level 2 - dropped me from near full to -12 :P)
I don't know about you - but the vast majority of groups I've sat down with have plenty of characters focused on dealing damage.
I don't know about you - but the vast majority of groups I've sat down with have plenty of characters focused on dealing damage.
Vast majority of characters I meet are skill monkeys. Trade you?
Speaking of bards, they get some nifty static bonus's to attack and damage and can actually end up pretty high up there as far as DPR goes. Reach builds in particular help make up for 3/4 BAB and require little investment. They also don't need a lot of investment to be good at skill, between versatile performance, bardic knowledge, options like paegent of the peacock, spells, and their good allotment to begin with they have a lot of skill power by the end of the day.
