Ok. So we were playing a game of pathfinder today and pretty much everyone was confused about what the dungeonmaster said was ok for a line of a lightning bolt.
Essentially, this is what happened. My wizard character wanted to cast
a lightning bolt. So he moved over about 5-10 feet until he formed a line of sight with 2 targets, forming a perfect line. ( if you held a string all 3 points would have matched up. If you had tried to walk the distance between all three the distance would have been WELL within the range of the spell. This wasn't the issue. The issue was that according to the line diagrams in the core book on page 215, there was NO WAY to make a complete line using the 5' squares. I have always thought of those diagrams as a guide persay, basically an example of how lines work.
For instance on the 3rd line from the left, you move up 2, right 1, up 3, right 1 up 2 for a 30 foot line. If you wanted let's say a 25' line? I am assuming you would take the top box off. Also in the 4th diagram, it is 5 + 10 + 5 + 10 for 30'. So if I wanted it 25, there is obviously a stopping point halfway through the last box. So is a line to that not possible since it doesn't extend that far? Essentially this is an example to be of taking it TOO literally.
So what happens then with my spell? Obviously it is within range. And obviously if I took a ruler made of 5' squares and held it on that direct angle it would come out to the same # of boxes as walking 4 boxes in diagram 4. So Can you or can you NOT shoot a bolt of lightning at a square that is in 100% line with a target? or can you not do it just because it isnt following the grid squares? It is pretty obvious to me that if you rotated the grid around the wizard, somewhere would be a direct path within range.
I'd like a moderator or someone to rule this because it seems that you'd be able to form pretty much any line if you moved your character to the correct spot.
Thanks.
Essentially what I am asking is this: Lets say you are blasting a bolt 100 feet from you. But the guy is 5' to the left once you move. I am guessing using the 30' lines as a guide, you'd blast it 50' then it moves over 1 box to the left then 50' more for that line? I am using diagram #2 as a judge.
My dm is basically saying you keep doing up 3 over 1 etc...or following the EXACT moves of each diagram, but It seems to me they are for reference...
PRD magic section wrote: Regardless of the shape of the area, you select the point where the spell originates, but otherwise you don't control which creatures or objects the spell affects. The point of origin of a spell is always a grid intersection. When determining whether a given creature is within the area of a spell, count out the distance from the point of origin in squares just as you do when moving a character or when determining the range for a ranged attack. The only difference is that instead of counting from the center of one square to the center of the next, you count from intersection to intersection.
You can count diagonally across a square, but remember that every second diagonal counts as 2 squares of distance. If the far edge of a square is within the spell's area, anything within that square is within the spell's area. If the spell's area only touches the near edge of a square, however, anything within that square is unaffected by the spell.
...
A line-shaped spell shoots away from you in a line in the direction you designate. It starts from any corner of your square and extends to the limit of its range or until it strikes a barrier that blocks line of effect. A line-shaped spell affects all creatures in squares through which the line passes.
[edit after rereading the line rules]
I retract my post, as it is late and my current opinion is that the second line template is wrong according to the above rules. Therefore I'm going to wait until I'm better rested before saying the core template is wrong.
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zombiepeanut wrote: Essentially what I am asking is this: Lets say you are blasting a bolt 100 feet from you. But the guy is 5' to the left once you move. I am guessing using the 30' lines as a guide, you'd blast it 50' then it moves over 1 box to the left then 50' more for that line? I am using diagram #2 as a judge.
My dm is basically saying you keep doing up 3 over 1 etc...or following the EXACT moves of each diagram, but It seems to me they are for reference...
Actually my ruling was you were able to do it if u moved over to the correct spot and u did. I used the template based on "Walking the line", and the line can not shift over more than one 5' square and still maintain a line and not become a curve. So any pattern that shifts over one 5 foot square at a time up to a max of a full diagonal that is measured at a 1 2 move (5, 15,20,30,35 etc)is ok. Also, once u shoose an angle of shift it can never shift over in the other direction, it can only stop shifting as long as the line isn't forced into an arc or curve. That's my interpretation as a DM, and has been for over 30 years of play. I hope the good people at Paizo can clarify this, but I feel good about my ruling and stand by it. I am sorry for any confusion, I always want the players to have fun.
The real problem was the friendly targets dispersed through the line and using a path that would hit enemies, not friendlies and still be part of a straight pattern. This means positioning yourself directly next to the first target. Which u did and I ruled it hit... and one of the 2 enemies died. I also ignoring that the lightning bolt has a 120' length and would have also blown a hole in the wood wall of the building in the town square killing any friendly civilians behind it.
There are a lot of rules and numbers and reactions swimming in my head during a game as any DM can tell u. I'm not always perfect or right in all my rulings, but I am always trying to be fair and fun. 9 players all yelling, opening rules and drawing lines of sight
OverseerN
I usually(I won't say always, but close) rule, that the in-game world isn't divided into squares, so a line is line; I would say that the 5' by 100' template(made from squares) covers the spell's area. The templates in the book are just examples to use when you don't have better tools.
If you can hold a piece of string to illustrate that the two creatures line up with your square, I'll allow it to hit them. In-game tactics and formations shouldn't depend on out-of-game templates for geometrical shapes. But that's just an opinion, not everybody agrees, nor should they.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Yeah, don't get confused by the grid a line is still a line, even if it doesn't look like a straight line due to the grid.
The issue was/is that none of the images of line examples matched perfectly to the line of site I had due to the odd angle, however the string showed a CLEAR perfect line. Moderator please reply so that I can show my dm. I appreciate the help from others posting, but he typically only uses official rulings.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
lol. Somehow posted my post in the wrong thread.
Ravingdork wrote: What's so hard about lines? Seems simple enough to me. I made a diagram that I thought might help others to better understand (see link).
Blue lines represent the line. Sky blue are the squares effected by the line.
Note that the PC could easily have zapped the bottom right NPC simply by adjusting the angle of the line (call it a warning shot).
Ravingdork's image should be pretty perfect based on the rules in the book. You likely won't get more of an official answer than that.
Except for maybe the bottom-right line which intersects two corners; the first corner includes the square it crosses past (7th from the left) but excludes the second corner's square (the NPC's square)? If I were GMing, I'd rule it to hit either both of those squares or none of them, in favour of whatever the caster intended, since they control the bolt's exact target.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Avatar-1 wrote: I'd rule it to hit either both of those squares or none of them, in favour of whatever the caster intended, since they control the bolt's exact target. Unless you say none, it's going to be a house rule if the Core Rule book's diagram is any indication.
Sorry; I should clarify I'm only going by your image and the rules text, and that I don't have the core rulebook with me to see what the diagram looks like there.
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