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Round 1 : I grapple
Round 2: I maintain my grapple with the Pinning option
Round 3: do i need to pin again to maintain the pin? or can i use damage option and my opponent stays pinned until they escape?
I thought i needed to pin every round to keep them pinned, but everyone else at the table says they read it differently, so i am curious what the correct answer is
I actually always assumed it worked like you thought, where you have to take a special action to pin them each round (which is how it works in the majority of RPGs that I've seen), however, upon re-reading the rules, I believe your table is correct. You only have the pin them once and then they're pinned until they escape and you can go about your business beating on them.
I actually always assumed it worked like you thought, where you have to take a special action to pin them each round (which is how it works in the majority of RPGs that I've seen), however, upon re-reading the rules, I believe your table is correct. You only have the pin them once and then they're pinned until they escape and you can go about your business beating on them.
Surprised to say: Same here. The passage about having to repeat grapple rolls stays active, of course, meaning to say that if you do not make a grapple roll to maintain, the grapple ends and the opponent is neither pinned nor grappled. But the pinned condition does not have a 1 round duration or such limitation, so if you maintained once to pin and then maintain the grapple to cause damage, I see no rules reason why the pin should end.
The Tie Up rules talk about not having to roll each round to maintain the pin, so one could extrapolate from that that a pin has to be maintained each round. But I wouldn't go that far, it may mean you can maintain teh pin by doing any grapple maintain roll.
ok, because the brought up that you need to pin them before you can tie them up, and if they don't stayed pinned, you could never tie them up unless you have greater grapple
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I think this falls under the common sense rules.
If you do not release the grapple, you must continue to make a check each round, as a standard action, to maintain the hold. If your target does not break the grapple, you get a +5 circumstance bonus on grapple checks made against the same target in subsequent rounds. Once you are grappling an opponent, a successful check allows you to continue grappling the foe, and also allows you to perform one of the following actions (as part of the standard action spent to maintain the grapple).
Pin: You can give your opponent the pinned condition (see Conditions). Despite pinning your opponent, you still only have the grappled condition, but you lose your Dexterity bonus to AC.
The second you stop grappling it loses all conditions associated with your grapple (including pinned) due to the conditions all reliant on you maintaining a grapple.
Now if you tie em up, then you can no longer maintain grapple, but again that has it's own specific
This works like a pin effect, but the DC to escape the bonds is equal to 20 + your Combat Maneuver Bonus (instead of your CMD). The ropes do not need to make a check every round to maintain the pin.
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ok, because the brought up that you need to pin them before you can tie them up, and if they don't stayed pinned, you could never tie them up unless you have greater grapple
that's answered by the relevant entry
Tie Up: If you have your target pinned, otherwise restrained, or unconscious, you can use rope to tie him up. This works like a pin effect, but the DC to escape the bonds is equal to 20 + your Combat Maneuver Bonus (instead of your CMD). The ropes do not need to make a check every round to maintain the pin. If you are grappling the target, you can attempt to tie him up in ropes, but doing so requires a combat maneuver check at a –10 penalty. If the DC to escape from these bindings is higher than 20 + the target's CMB, the target cannot escape from the bonds, even with a natural 20 on the check.
IE yeah ya need someone to help you tie him up, have you ever tried to restrain someone you had heled to the floor that was trying to get away by yourself? (I work in healthcare and have... and it's nearly impossible solo at times)
IE yeah ya need someone to help you tie him up, have you ever tried to restrain someone you had heled to the floor that was trying to get away by yourself? (I work in healthcare and have... and it's nearly impossible solo at times)
Actually, there are martial arts that do that, manriki-kusari for example, or advanced Modern Arnis. My MA trainer practiced a few of the moves with a belt on me. But that's IRL, let's focus on our fantasy rules. In Pathfinder, you need no help, and actually the Aid Another action is way less effective as it would be IRL.
so, to get things clear......do you need to keep pinning every round, or can you pin once and then tie up the next round
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If you do not maintain the grapple/pin they no longer have that condition. It's clear that the tie up is intended to be done by someone else, but if you're trying to do it yourself it's performed at a -10 due to trying to keep them pinned while they are actively trying to escape and you are actively trying to tie them up while keeping them pinned.
i know you probably answered this, but i just want to clarify. I want to know if you can pin them, and continue to maintain the grapple doing other things such as damaging...will they stay pinned, or drop back to grappled condition.
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In 3.5 it was clear that you had to Pin each round:
Pin Your Opponent: You can hold your opponent immobile for 1 round by winning an opposed grapple check (made in place of an attack). Once you have an opponent pinned, you have a few options available to you (see below).
However in PF that 1 round clause was dropped:
Pin: You can give your opponent the pinned condition (see Conditions). Despite pinning your opponent, you still only have the grappled condition, but you lose your Dexterity bonus to AC.
I assume this was done intentionally, perhaps because in PF grappling is now a Standard action and not an attack - that means the only way in PF you can grapple twice in a round is if you have Greater Grapple, whereas in 3.5 you could as soon as you got a BAB of +6.
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I'm assuming that pin is something you maintain, it's not defined but I'd assume in abscence of it that it lasts as long as you maintain it or until you make it permament (ie tie up) if you can perform multiple grapples you can do other actions while grappling, after they are pinned etc.
The biggest thing is they cannot do jack while pinned except attempt escape.
thinking about it, having to maintain a pin does make sense