|
I use 'Natural 20" and it shows my dice rolling history. It ill also simulate rolling 100k times and show the probability distribution for any GM who questions the integrity of the program.That’s probably how some of the VTT works. Nothing prevents the closed source one for rolling differently for some paying customers.
Would such a complicated system needed for FtF PFSOP though?
Having used several VTTs, including some that have a paid option, this really doesn't happen.
|
|
I usually just shame people into using physical dice. "Those aren't real dice. No roleplayer would use a dice roller when they can roll real dice. I thought you were serious about this game. I'm very disappointed. All the cool kids use real dice."
Of course, if I'm the GM I just ask them to roll physical dice where I can see them. That's not limited to people with dice apps, either.
Want to use a dice tower? That's great, as long as I can see the results.
Obviously this doesn't apply to online play, but in a FtF? Heck, yeah.
|
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
I use Natural 20 app at in-person games. The VTTs have their dice rollers programmed into the application.
The less I physically have to bring with me to the table, the happier I am. I relish in being able to one day not even have to print chronicles and can e-mail them instead.
/Dreams
|
|
I use Natural 20 app at in-person games. The VTTs have their dice rollers programmed into the application.
The less I physically have to bring with me to the table, the happier I am. I relish in being able to one day not even have to print chronicles and can e-mail them instead.
/Dreams
Thats cool if you do not bring dice. I will lend/give you a set if you come to play at my table.
As a side note I have seen enough cheating DMs in PFS to not want them to use a dice roller either. If I knew a DM was using a rolling app. I would not play with them.
I know someone is going to sya you can not tell the difference between them rolling behind a screen and a dice app. But I just do not trust them at all and they wreck my fun. So I would nto play a game where my fun was wrecked.
|
Do you ban mtg spindown dice as well?
Because with practice you can roll 20;s with a very high frequency
I've heard this before and I ask "How do you figure?"
A spindown die has one '20' just like a "normal" d20. If you can roll "just right" to get an unusual number of 20's with one, the same would apply to either.Now, since the big numbers are grouped to one side of the spindown die, I could see, with practice, being able to roll a higher average that normal, just not a specific number.
|
Back in my Living Greyhawk days, one player who used a dice app rolled exceptionally well with his archer. On the events when the DM insisted on everyone needing to use actual dice, we found that this persons' dice always rolled a lot lower than his dice app (on average, 10 points lower!)
Of course, it wasn't the fault of the dice app as it was probably that player.
Some people cheat. Some people are honest. Not all people who use dice app cheat. But then, some do.
Personally, as a player, I'm not opposed to another player using an app so long as the GM is ok with it. If he requests that actual dice are used, then I think the GM should have that perogative. (And I always have extra dice to hand out to someone if needed, which would help if that ever were to happen in PFS).
|
|
(…)
As a side note I have seen enough cheating DMs in PFS to not want them to use a dice roller either. If I knew a DM was using a rolling app. I would not play with them.
(…)Cheating GM? You mean they cheat when they are GMing? Is it to avoid PC death or is it to kill more of them?
The first one breaks the fun of some players, and some other players are glad of it.
The second one is not fun for any player.
So is it the first case you experienced and don’t like?
I have seen both and I hate both. I can understand the cheating to save people, but disagree. I have also seen cheating to add challenge to the adventure. This caused another PC to die because I stayed out of the fight knowing I was being targeted by GM.
|
|
As a side note I have seen enough cheating DMs in PFS to not want them to use a dice roller either. If I knew a DM was using a rolling app. I would not play with them.Do you also refuse to play with GMs who don't roll their dice out in the open?
if you look above I did mention that
"I know someone is going to sya you can not tell the difference between them rolling behind a screen and a dice app. But I just do not trust them(as in dice apps) at all and they wreck my fun. So I would nto play a game where my fun was wrecked."
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
To be honest, until DMs start personally testing and verifyng that all physical dice for every player arenot loaded, cheat dice, or modified, then they have no say whatsoever on if players use dice apps "at their little table". Their personal preference is irrelevant to the issue. Its not their job to be a jerk. Its not their job to dictate what players can and can not do or use if the guide does not specify one way or the other. A DM that says otherwise probably needs to not be a DM any longer. Not saying to be a jerk about it, or to make a stink, and honestly I kind of hate dice apps. That is to say I personally hate using dice apps, for myself. But its not my place to push that on anyone else.
Now, like with physical dice, if there is actual evidence of or suspicion of actual cheating, thats a different story, and at that point the DM does then have the duty to do something.
If thefe os an ossue with you not seeing the roll, well exactly like with physical dice, it is your responsibility to require the play to reroll and let you it clearly when its an issue. How would you handle a player with physical dice that says "crit" and the roll to confirm before anyone else sees a little (or lot) too often? Probably either make them roll in front of everyone or switch dice, right. Same exact deal with the app. In front oc everyone, or use a different app.
|
|
ignorant stuff
Dming is a cost to me. I pay money and time to DM for people. Now If you force me to put up with things I do not enjoy because they happen to not have specific rules about it. That is absolutely ridiculous. If I GM a table for those next few hours it is my little table. I amke judgements based on the rules provided. Now the rules do not say that players can not stab the DM for a bad game either. So because the rules omit something does not mean that they are allowed. The rules however do say cheating is not allowed. So I enforce rules to mitigate cheating as well. That includes disallowing dice rolling apps.
In my personal experience everyone that solely used a dice app cheated with them. So if they want to use one, that is fine. I will nto DM for them. I will DM another table with peopel without them.
|
|
| 5 people marked this as a favorite. |
It's amazing Flinderboy, as a player I also spend a lot of my own person money to play Pathfinder on a regular basis.
Part of my investment to increase speed of play and enjoyment are my tablets and laptop. When I travel out of town (paying for my own air fare, food, fuel, parking, etc), I often want to trim down the amount of clutter and weight that I bring to the table.
My tablet is a wonderful tool for this, and allows me to leave the bag of dice at home.
The GM does not have the right to ban me from a PFS game in a public venue because of his or her own quirk of disliking dice rollers. I am not cheating, but I would feel slighted and cheated by anyone demanding that I use strange dice instead of using my tablet dice roller. How do I know you aren't cheating me? giving me dice that is weighted to roll low.
I believe what many of the haters out there forget, that this is a GAME. Where adults (or near adults) gather to socialize and have a good time together to share a joint story.
Get over being old school and yelling "Get off my lawn', snarling at new technology and capabilities.
Do I want to play a video game? No. I am there to ROLEPLAY, and immerse myself into a good story and have fun with a party of like minded individuals.
Stop trying to divide the community and game on!!
Prejudice in any flavor is not appreciated.
|
Also some people are just, really TERRIBLE at math. Like so, very bad that watching them trying to add 1d20+6 is awful if they roll like, an 8. Yeah I know off the top of my head that it's 14 but they stop, pull out a calculator. These otherwise intelligent people exist, like they have mathematic dyslexia. Sitting across the table from these people is just, the worst. I should know because I have one in one of the groups I play in.
I introduced him to a dice app, his turns have become 100% faster, and I don't feel like a condescending jerk by adding the numbers before he can pull his calculator out.
|
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 32
|
I feel like I should ban Chessex brand dice from my tables the way some of you think about dice rollers. I wonder how much is legitiate concern and how much is grognardism.
Here's a fun video to all of you who think your pound of dice from chessex are balanced: http://youtu.be/tSQIir5xxWc
Lou Zocchi has provided a lot for the world of RPGs, but unfortunately, his dice are hardly the perfection that he claims. The Zoccihedron is notable for rolling equatorial numbers more often than pole numbers, and most GameScience dice will roll the number opposite the flashing (Usually 14 on a d20) significantly less than any other side.
|
|
As I've mentioned before on these boards, I usually tell my table (as part of a longer speech), if you want to cheat, that's fine, cheat, because I [as the GM] can do it better.
If anyone cheats. Gm or player, it instantly wrecks the fun for me. As a GM some people think my fun does not matter, well it does becuase I will not do it if you treat me like that.
Just because someone cheats does not warrent more cheating.
This is the two wrongs does not make a right moral decision.
As a player if someone was cheating I would prefer the DM kick them from the table.
All in all though. I feel not allowing dice rollers reduces the ease and opportunity of cheating. So for a more likelihood of not having to deal with cheating is why I choose that.
*edit. Kyle you are very intelligent and very experienced. You can make adjusts others could not to make up for this. I am sorry but your answer can apply only to a select few as gifted as you.
|
|
Surprised it only took one post for someone to take that literally.
The full quote is usually, "If you guys have something like power attack, rapid shot, etcetera that you normally have to declare, just do it. I trust you guys and if you want to cheat, then cheat, but I can do it better." Which normally garners a few laughs.
|
|
Surprised it only took one post for someone to take that literally.
The full quote is usually, "If you guys have something like power attack, rapid shot, etcetera that you normally have to declare, just do it. I trust you guys and if you want to cheat, then cheat, but I can do it better." Which normally garners a few laughs.
Well there are ways to manuevere way that are questionable methods a DM can use.
In text you can never be sure. Plus I give you credit where credit is due. I have no doubt you can adjust to a cheater.
|
Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area South & West
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I dislike dice apps - as I've said before, they separate the player from the game. But I'd never even consider walking away from the table over such a trivial issue.
Nor, for that matter, do I consider a game I'm running as "my little table". What I try to do, for those four+ hours, is make it "our little table", where everybody is participating in having a shared good time. Sometimes that means there needs to be a little give-and-take so we can come to a common position. And sometimes the person who gives is the person behind the screen (although I don't like to use those, either) - sometimes it's a player.
|
|
Most dice apps are more random than physical dice. Take your favorite die and roll it 1000 times and then have the dice app roll 1000 times, I bet the ap with have a much more even spread of results. - unless they are advertized as unfair..
Nitpick: No dice app is random -- at all. They might be more fair than most dice, but that's not the same thing.
Personally, I require my in-person players to use dice and happily provide some if needed.
|
|
Nitpick: No dice app is random -- at all. They might be more fair than most dice, but that's not the same thing.
And no die is truly random either. There's never perfect dimensions or density and thus any die will always be more likely to roll way way or another. Of course it usually isn't enough for anyone but casinos to worry about.
|
|
Nitpick: No dice app is random -- at all. They might be more fair than most dice, but that's not the same thing.And no die is truly random either. There's never perfect dimensions or density and thus any die will always be more likely to roll way way or another. Of course it usually isn't enough for anyone but casinos to worry about.
The point I was making is that it is actually impossible for computers (as we currently understand them) to produce random numbers. In fact, algorithms that simulate doing so are specifically called pseudo-random for this reason. It is at least theoretically possible for a die to produce random numbers.
But more interestingly...what hostility did I miss? :P
|
Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area South & West
|
With the appropriate peripherals, a computer can produce numbers that are as truly random as our understanding of quantum mechanics permits (and certainly more random than any die produced in a commercial factory). Prices of an "appropriate peripheral" are now less than $1000.
|
|
With the appropriate peripherals, a computer can produce numbers that are as truly random as our understanding of quantum mechanics permits (and certainly more random than any die produced in a commercial factory). Prices of an "appropriate peripheral" are now less than $1000.
I did not know that. Any idea how it is accomplished?
Edit: Assuming one has Internet access, there is random.org (which apparently uses atmospheric noise), but a quick search didn't turn up the peripherals of which you speak. A point in the right direction would be appreciated.
|
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I did not know that. Any idea how it is accomplished?With the appropriate peripherals, a computer can produce numbers that are as truly random as our understanding of quantum mechanics permits (and certainly more random than any die produced in a commercial factory). Prices of an "appropriate peripheral" are now less than $1000.
Seriously! I had no idea that prices for an infinite improbability drive had come down under a grand.
|
|
Seriously! I had no idea that prices for an infinite improbability drive had come down under a grand.I did not know that. Any idea how it is accomplished?With the appropriate peripherals, a computer can produce numbers that are as truly random as our understanding of quantum mechanics permits (and certainly more random than any die produced in a commercial factory). Prices of an "appropriate peripheral" are now less than $1000.
It's not impossible, just highly improbable.
|
Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area South & West
|
With the appropriate peripherals, a computer can produce numbers that are as truly random as our understanding of quantum mechanics permits (and certainly more random than any die produced in a commercial factory). Prices of an "appropriate peripheral" are now less than $1000.
I did not know that. Any idea how it is accomplished?
Edit: Assuming one has Internet access, there is random.org (which apparently uses atmospheric noise), but a quick search didn't turn up the peripherals of which you speak. A point in the right direction would be appreciated.
I'd suggest starting here (a Wikipedia page)
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Seriously! I had no idea that prices for an infinite improbability drive had come down under a grand.It was bound to happen sooner or later -- however improbable.
So all we have to do is figure out just how improbable it truly is, plug that number in, give it a nice fresh, hot cup of tea, and turn it on.
|
|
I'd suggest starting here (a Wikipedia page)
Thank you. Probably not terribly pertinent to the thread, but appreciated for my edification.
Edit: "The usual method is to amplify noise generated by a resistor (Johnson noise) or a semi-conductor diode and feed this to a comparator or Schmitt trigger. If you sample the output (not too quickly) you (hope to) get a series of bits which are statistically independent."
...and here is where I am (yet again) reminded why I should have gone with an EE degree as opposed to CIS. ;)
|
Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area South & West
|
While I'm not suggesting that it is practical today to build a truly random dice app (no casual user wants a hardware add-on that costs more than the PC or smartphone they'll be using it on), I expect we'll see one eventually - the inexorable technology curve predicts it.
The first electronic random number generator I know of was ERNIE, the machine used to pick the winning numbers for the British "Premium Bonds". This machine, announced in 1957, was built by Tommy Flowers - the Post Office genius responsible for the "Colossus" code-breaking machine used at Bletchley Park during WW II.
In the 50+ years since then we've seen the hardware shrink from something that filled a small room to something that can fit in a pocket. I'm sure that somebody somewhere has already built a high-end gaming system with a true random number generator attached. Once the price drops to maybe $100 (which it will - the ever-growing demand for hardware security and encryption is driving that market) they'll become more common; eventually they'll become so cheap nobody will build a system without one.
