At our last game we had a revelation about one of the PC's. He's a worshiper of Rovagug.
Our part consists of a NG Inquisitor of Ragathiel (me), a CG Spellslinger with a CG Cleric of Milani as a cohort, a CG Magus, and a CN Barbarian, who just revealed to us all that he is a worshiper of Rovagug.
At the beginning of the campaign we decided as a group not to indulge in PvP with these characters, and we have all made small allowances to avoid such, but I can't wrap my head around how to deal with the situation now. I can't imagine Ragathiel being cool with me casting healing on him, or buffs or whatever. (Honestly I can't imagine Milani being cool with it either, but that isn't my character so I'll let them worry about it.)
So any advice on how to continue playing with the party as is, not have any PvP, and still stay true to my character?
I'm going to operate on the assumption that you've been playing these guys for at least a few sessions before the revelation came out.
Keep on keeping on.
You've been healing and buffing this guy since the game started, right? And obviously, your god had no problem with it, because it worked before, right? Why would there be a problem now?
It also bears mentioning that he's just a 'worshiper' of Rovagug, not a cleric thereof. You could take it upon yourself to try to convert him though I'd ask the player first ... that can get real annoying real fast. The primary point is that while he's kissing Gug's divine buttocks, he's not drawing any power from him.
Besides, it doesn't matter much. So long as he's still going along with the general party goals, his god doesn't matter. A raging barbarian following a god whose primary thing is destruction is really pretty logical. So long as he's destroying evil things (to put it simplistically), no worries.
Character personalities are a LOT more important to RP than gods and alignments.
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Remember that there are multiple reasons to worship a force of evil in this sort of setting only one of which is hey I am evil and want to accomplish evil things. One might worship a diety out of respect or fear of its great power. I.E. Hey at the end of they day this guy Rovagug is the biggest baddest force going I want to be on his good side. This is closely related to Rovagug is powerful beyond measure even the other gods we must appease him with our humble worship so that he does not destroy us or to delay that destruction. For instance Shiva in Hinduism is part of the cycle of death and rebirth on a universal scale. One day Shiva will destroy all things so that the cycle can begin again.
Now if your Barbarian does more than express a troubling philosophy that you disagree with you might consider action but at this point he has taken little direct action.
Thanks. these are good points I will consider
Try convincing the character to convert to worshiping Ragathiel. That is part of an inquisitor's job (although not a very big part). If the GM mentions something, roll a diplomacy check every few in game weeks/days to get him to consider converting.
as a group we don't allow diplomacy/intimidate checks from PC to PC, and yes, conversion is definitely an option (for me to try)
Its not that your check forces the player to your will its how well you present the argument that he rejects or goes with. Meaning if I am playing a character and someone tries to convince me of something (especially if they have trouble acting) I find it helpful to have them role. If the role a 20 I might still think their reasoning is crap but they did not completely insult me or if they insulted me they said it with enough charm I laugh it off. If they role a 1 I find them insulting and abrasive in their attempt.
If everyone at your table is always in character and acts well not as important. Though even at tables with a groups I would say could pull off great improv it was interdispersed with jokes and questions about the whereabouts of mountain dew.
Just say you are trying to talk him into converting than. Don't have to roll, nothing has to do anything, no conflicts.
I can do that. done that way it shouldn't cause OOP issues...
Its not that your check forces the player to your will its how well you present the argument that he rejects or goes with. Meaning if I am playing a character and someone tries to convince me of something (especially if they have trouble acting) I find it helpful to have them role. If the role a 20 I might still think their reasoning is crap but they did not completely insult me or if they insulted me they said it with enough charm I laugh it off. If they role a 1 I find them insulting and abrasive in their attempt.
If everyone at your table is always in character and acts well not as important. Though even at tables with a groups I would say could pull off great improv it was interdispersed with jokes and questions about the whereabouts of mountain dew.
Also a fair idea. explaining it that way might actually make it work 'better'.
Army of lvl 20 Paladins, solves most problems.
Army of lvl 20 Paladins, solves most problems.An army of Paladins is something that most civilized nations fear as much as an orc horde on the march.
Only if those nations are E-VUHLLLLLLLL
You know those people who show up at your house, tell you how awesome their religion is, and how evil your religion is?
Is that who you will be?
Part of me wants to say:
"Duh, cuz our religion is right!" But another part of me thinks no one will get the joke.
Three questions:
1)Does the player knows who and what Rovagug is? (death, beast, destruction, wanna kill anything forever etc)
2)Does the character knows who and what Rovagug is? (i assume yes but there might be a chance that the character was "tricked" into worshipping Rovagug)
3)In what part of Golarion are you playing?
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Only if those nations are E-VUHLLLLLLLLArmy of lvl 20 Paladins, solves most problems.An army of Paladins is something that most civilized nations fear as much as an orc horde on the march.
The problem is that paladins tend to have a definition of "not evil" that floats from:
Not Evil
to
Good
to
Lawful Good
to
Paladin
to
Paladin of MY god
to
Me
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Our part consists of a NG Inquisitor of Ragathiel (me), a CG Spellslinger with a CG Cleric of Milani as a cohort, a CG Magus, and a CN Barbarian, who just revealed to us all that he is a worshiper of Rovagug.
I've played in a PbP as an Inquisitor of Milani with a Cleric of Rovagug for about two years without any significant interparty issues.
The key here is how he venerates Rovagug. If he's in love with the pure destruction aspect, then just channel him the right way and sit back to watch the splinters fly.
Only if those nations are E-VUHLLLLLLLLArmy of lvl 20 Paladins, solves most problems.An army of Paladins is something that most civilized nations fear as much as an orc horde on the march.
Everyone in the party except the OP is chaotic.
And nobody is evil.The Paladins should be after the other chaotic guys as much as after the barbarian. (that is not at all)
As long as he hasn't done anything bad the pally is not allowed to hurt him because doing so would be unlawful.
Rovagug Cultists seem to be reviled and designated criminal/enemies of society in Golarion at large.
Thus his association with a Rovagug cult could very well itself already be criminal in many lands.
I'm not sure how exactly it was 'revealed', but I guess your character can have been 'mulling over' the situation,
given the PC hasn't otherwise done anything wrong... there is the reaction of treating them as a sad case of insanity/delusion,
although anything outside of some delusional isolated person ranting how they love Rovagug,
but rather somebody with actual solid relations, i.e. with other cult followers of Rovagug is another thing,
and in that case I could see a response being interrogating them and trying to deal with the cult as a whole.
I don't really see shrugging and carrying on as normal as if it's just another personal choice.
Rovagug Cultists seem to be reviled and designated criminal/enemies of society in Golarion at large.
Thus his association with a Rovagug cult could very well itself already be criminal in many lands.
Quandary - nothing in the OP suggests that the barbarian in question is a cultist - merely that his chosen god of veneration is Rovagug.
People often select a single aspect of a god that they like and choose to be a loose follower based on that. eg. Oh Cayden's into booze? - cool, I'll worship him! Could be that the barbarian is just into destruction, rather than the nihilistic aspects.
Normally I'd say live and let live. But you're an inquisitor! Strap him down and demand he recant his heresy!
In most cases alignment based inner party problems arise when good aligned PCs freak out about different aligned PCs, not because evil guys do evil deads.
If the inquisitor now freaks out he is the one causing the problem, not the follower of rovagug.
LG Guys should not act too fascist because fascism in most cases is evil (The Nazis have surely been evil and they hated on others just for being different).
Rovagug Cultists seem to be reviled and designated criminal/enemies of society in Golarion at large.
Thus his association with a Rovagug cult could very well itself already be criminal in many lands.Quandary - nothing in the OP suggests that the barbarian in question is a cultist - merely that his chosen god of veneration is Rovagug.
People often select a single aspect of a god that they like and choose to be a loose follower based on that. eg. Oh Cayden's into booze? - cool, I'll worship him! Could be that the barbarian is just into destruction, rather than the nihilistic aspects.
Unless the barbarian grew up somewhere where other good churches (for example Serenrae) were present then it's pretty unlikely that he knew or learned about Rovagug on his own, the cult thing is far far more likely to have happened.
As others have said, cults and open followers of Rovagug are hunted down on most countries in Golarion, that's why i asked more information from the OP.And if the barbarian wanted to worship a deity who is strong, warlike etc. he could have easily worshiped Gorum or the lesser deity of strenght (whose name i can't remember).
No i am not saying that the rest of the party should turn their weapons upon the barbarian the moment the revelation was made, but it's not something to let it drop, this is SERIOUS.
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Curious why Gorum was passed over in favor of the most hated entity in the multiverse.
The thing about Rovagug is that he and his faithful don't play nice with anyone. Does the player really know what Rovagug is all about and how the universe tends to react to his followers?
It could simply be a case of setting unfamiliarity.
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put it down as an attempt to redeem an evil doer.
Does the player actually understand what Rovagug is and what it would like to do (i.e. Destory the Multiverse). Is that what he's really into? You don't have to be chaotic evil to worhsip Rovagug, but it really doesn't make sense in the setting to not be. All his cultist are depicted as crazed mad men who want to hasten the destruction of the universe and are hunted like animals.
What it really boils down to I think, is that he decided to worship Rovavgug in order to get access to the feat that allows you to regain rage by sundering things. If thats the case...well have a talk with player and the GM and discuss how the Rough Beasts is depicted in your campaign and what it really means to worhsip him.
Ultiamtely, the question is why the player felt compelled to choose Rovavgug over any other god available. Does the character merely play lip service to Rovavgug to get access to a feat or what?
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Keep in mind Golarion is a pantheistic world where the gods while active are distant. It's not all that strange to make offerings to evil gods so they don't destroy you and work their evil on your foes. If the Barbarian worships the destoryer look into exactly how that worship works? Is it more how the tribes shaman keep the monsters away from their camps, and to invoke fear in other tribes...well it might be more primative than evil.
Case in point, you might have a GOOD merchant say a little prayer to Asmodeous to keep his fingers out of this business. Or maybe drop a few coins in the shrine of the Pirate Goddess so her ships don't find his shipments.
Yes but said merchant wouldn't have Asmodeous as a patron deity, and if he claims and/or thinks that he has then he is mistaken.
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Actually, he might. Asmodeous is a god of Law. If the merchant always kept his word and honored his contracts, then well...you have a LE god who fits the bill right there. Especially if he's a native of Cheliax. he might not be an evil person. Unless you are a Cleric, you can worship just about any god really.
Actually, he might. Asmodeous is a god of Law. If the merchant always kept his word and honored his contracts, then well...you have a LE god who fits the bill right there. Especially if he's a native of Cheliax. he might not be an evil person. Unless you are a Cleric, you can worship just about any god really.
On that note, Barbarian's don't actually have to venerate Rovagug or kill everything in their way. He could be a LG fighter and follow Rovagog. If you had to hate and kill everyone who followed a different god than you, life might get rough.
Anyways, I don't actually see the problem. Reminds me of a few groups I've been in where if you even hint your character was evil in anyway they treat you as the player with a lot of disrespect and some even booted players over it!
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My advice? Do nothing.
If the player is going to be disruptive, he's going to be disruptive whether his character plays a Rovaguggite Barbarian or a bog-standard LG Paladin (in my experience, the class and alignment most likely to initiate interparty conflict and end a gaming session with players screaming at each other).
This is never a thing that should be resolved with in-game PVP against another players character, since that just leads to yet more PVP and encourages passive-aggressiveness (since it's inherently passive-aggressive). Disruptive behavior should be dealt with out of game and out of character.
If he's not going to be disruptive, then it doesn't matter if his character sheet says 'CE' and 'worships Cookie Monster' on it. It's literally irrelevant.
The Player in question has not been disruptive, at least on an out of play level. I am not entirely sure if he really knows what Rovagug is all about, but I suspect he does. It is possible the character is a worshiper because his tribe was (just conjecturing), and while it is definitely more than lip service, he isn't a member of a cult (almost positive about that), and I don't think it likely that we (as a party) will be going up against any Rovagug cultists any time soon that we might have to worry about his 'loyalty'.
A lot will depend on how it all goes down next game I suppose. This revelation happened at the very end of last session, so no one has had any time to react yet. I want to play it 'right' and in-character, but since my knee jerk reaction (possible emphasis on the 'jerk') was fairly extreme, I wanted to sound out some other opinions.
Oh, and the revelation came when he sacrificed an animal to Rovagug after a fight was over. Certainly not a huge gruesome thing, but he prayed to Rovagug while he did it.
Called shot to the heart. Only way to be sure.
Another important thing to remember: People interpret religious texts to support their own point of view ALL THE TIME. He could simply have, ICly, cherry-picked the parts of Rover's texts that supported what he already thought ('Breaking stuff is AWESOME.').
Remember, he's not a divine character. He's a barbarian. He could claim to worship Rovagoggles and pray to him before saving puppies from a fire.
IC “Hey. Klown the Chaotic? Look, we have found out you worship Rovagug. Sorry, dude, that means we can no longer trust you. It’s been nice and all and we wish you all the best. The door is that way. You are no longer a part of this party.”
This needs to be done more often. No PvP, no drama, just boot them. And if the player comes back with another - boot the player.
It's been my experience that this player is looking to pull some "stuff' and will use the tired excuse "It's what my character would do".
"Guilt by Association" is very real in a medieval world, and when he pulls something really nasty, your party will have to pay for it.
Actions speak louder than words.
And this is only one action. What else has he been doing? You have to look at the whole picture.
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This needs to be done more often. No PvP, no drama, just boot them. And if the player comes back with another - boot the player.
That's what I was talking about earlier about how because you show a hint of being evil, suddenly your supposed to be banned from the group. Little extreme, don't you think? Unless the player is going out of his way to be disruptive, I really don't see the problem. Orc barbarian following the destroyer isn't really that uncommon in Golarion, but I might be mistaken. Daristal said he wasn't being disruptive, no reason to believe he is.
Sorry, dude, that means we can no longer trust you.
No it doesn't.