When our current AP finishes up (surely, before 2017...) I'm extremely keen to run something other than PF for a change of pace (unless I can convince someone else to run something... anything).
To that end, I've checked out a couple of other RPGs. The three that are sticking out at the moment are Shadows of Esteren, Iron Kingdoms Full Metal Fantasy, and A Song of Ice and Fire. I've bought into Esteren's Kickstarter, so that's a pro for that game, but I've looked through the free starter pdfs for all three, and each of them has a certain intriguing flavour of their own...
So to the boards I go! What I'm ideally hoping for is opinions from people who have played two or all three of them, and can offer comparative analyses. Failing that, the opinion of anyone that's played one of them would be most appreciated. I would also welcome recommendations for other games that people particularly like that I haven't yet considered - but if so, I'd prefer them to be current (and thus currently supported).
Have at it folks - sell me a game :)
Isn't there a name for the world of Song of Ice and Fire, or at least a name for the continent where all the things take place?
Isn't there a name for the world of Song of Ice and Fire, or at least a name for the continent where all the things take place?
Much of the action takes place in Westeros - much of it elsewhere. Why's that?
So have you played any of these games, or do you have any other games to recommend?
I have sadly not played those games, so I am sadly of no help.
Best of luck choosing the best one out of those, though!
Traveller: classic SF in its latest incarnation, again game mechanics SRD.
WaRP: very simple game mechanics originally used for On The Edge RPG, surprise-surprise machanics released under OGL like the two above.
GURPS Lite: not OGL but still free.
Of the three above I have general knowledge of aSoIaF and must say that it is excellent game as long as one wants to involve in anything Game Of Thrones-related. With a bit of cutting away threads connecting to books/TV series it could make a great standalone medieval fantasy/court intrigue/feudal lords game (fief rules!).
Iron Kingdoms Full Metal Fantasy I only browsed and, while I like the setting, it seemed to me as too much drawing upon its miniatures origins and not enough on supporting non-combat, non-battle game parts. It could be only initial impression, however.
I have sadly not played those games, so I am sadly of no help.
Best of luck choosing the best one out of those, though!
Cheers! The beauty of my dilemma is that they all look pretty sweet.
Oh yeah, I can personally reccomend GURPS. Flexible and rather neatly balanced system if you ask me.
** spoiler omitted **
Cheers, I'll have a look over these. I've known about them all for years, except WaRP...
Of the three above I have general knowledge of aSoIaF and must say that it is excellent game as long as one wants to involve in anything Game Of Thrones-related. With a bit of cutting away threads connecting to books/TV series it could make a great standalone medieval fantasy/court intrigue/feudal lords game (fief rules!).
Iron Kingdoms Full Metal Fantasy I only browsed and, while I like the setting, it seemed to me as too much drawing upon its miniatures origins and not enough on supporting non-combat, non-battle game parts. It could be only initial impression, however.
Ooh, fief rules..!
Which version of ASOIF do you know? The starter pdf I have is the original, but I see the latest is the Game of Thrones edition... Do you know if they are different at all?
Also, the war game aspect of IK I find somewhat attractive - I played a fair bit of WH40K in my youth, and I'm sure i could inject whatever RP was required... So long as the setting is good!
Also, I must admit, I'm kinda looking for something new and shiny... Is GURPS lite a newish system? Because, having heard of it for years (decades?), I think of GURPS as being an old system...
Also, I must admit, I'm kinda looking for something new and shiny... Is GURPS lite a newish system? Because, having heard of it for years (decades?), I think of GURPS as being an old system...
As I understand it GURPS Lite was designed to be reduced version of the full rules that fits in stand-alone GURPS-based products ("Powered By GURPS") such as Transhuman Space, Hellboy and a few others and later available independently as a free product.
The Iron Kingdoms is definitely wargame-y. That will either be a bug or a feature, but you can't get away from that pink elephant in the room. If crunchy tactical combat isn't a turnoff it's pretty fun as far as those types of games go. Personally, I tend to enjoy more handwavey theater of the mind games as a rule. But...I do get an itch for measuring tape and facing rules from time to time. It is a dark secret desire that I try to keep locked away. *Aherghm* . Also, if you find yourself running IK online (as I do) it is easy, since you can just use Vassal with the Warmachine module to run online combats. The rest can take place in Skype or G+ or whatever means of communications you might use to squawk at your friends. On the downside, the oft mentioned flaw holds true, there are no real endeavors on behalf of the designers to inject social dynamics and associated resolution systems into Iron Kingdoms. Still, I've had no trouble just winging it and looking at stats and skills a bit differently (my brother refers to it as "using your arse to sway the crowd"). At least there aren't dump stats :-) that everyone inflicts upon social skills in other games anyway. Imo, the setting is good, and they've managed to distinguish it by merging other types of settings and filing off a few edges here and there and packaging it up nicely as their own thing. To me, it seems kind of like the illigitimate love child of Eberron, and Warhammer Fantasy with some illustrative styling that is a bit more comic-booky and WoW-y than either. If you are looking at a wildly different experience than the high fantasy of Pathfinder it might not be different enough. But, gobbers and trollbloods seem to have wormed their way into my black heart ... despite all my attempts to deride them as orcs and goblins with silly names.
Song of Ice and Fire accomplishes its intent of creating a roleplaying experience in Westeros. It is much less over the top, and far less kitchen sink than other settings due to it being an emulated IP. The rules are goodish (I have no real complaints). I haven't been able to get a SoIaF game off the ground (neither Green Ronin's or the d20 version) but that lands on me. It's an IP that I dearly love, and I think it gets all up in my way as a result.
Shadows of Esteren...I really can't add anything beyond what the kickstarter video could give you. It's one of those games that I thought looked pretty cool, but I have so many little-used books on my shelves these days I had to cut back by the time this little ditty came 'round.
Nice, thanks Herbo!
I like ASoIaF. There's some nuance and trickiness to getting it to run smoothly. I only ran an 8 session arc for it once (and that was a couple years ago). I enjoy the system a lot, but it has some weak spots you need to account for as GM.
I also found the game is very welcoming of concepts from another RPG, Burning Wheel, which I love concepts from, but am not a big fan of some of the rules intricacies.
I like ASoIaF. There's some nuance and trickiness to getting it to run smoothly. I only ran an 8 session arc for it once (and that was a couple years ago). I enjoy the system a lot, but it has some weak spots you need to account for as GM.
What kind of weaknesses did you encounter?
1) The game works best when you use all of it. As a GM you have to make sure you're setting up the game so that all the major game systems are engaged. This creates some extra work as the GM. I found it rewarding, but it is extra work.
2) A consequence of that variety of scenarios that need to be dealt with can result in PC specialization. Specialized PC's leave PC's who are specialized in the same area in the dust, meaning a more well-rounded PC or one out of their element, doesn't have much to contribute (in a mechanical sense, they can still roleplay of course).
2.a.) Highly specialized PC's can be terrors. It doesn't break the game, nor break the concept of the setting, but it can be difficult to balance as a GM. Particularly since PC's can have a very wide discrepancy between them in a certain area.
3) Some of the numbers are very abstract. They don't necessarily make sense absolutely, so you'll have to rationalize them as makes sense for you. This is most obvious in the House management chapter.
Which version of ASOIF do you know? The starter pdf I have is the original, but I see the latest is the Game of Thrones edition... Do you know if they are different at all?
Yes. There was a lot of errata and changes between the original and the GoT edition, to the point where there was an interim updated version of the game. However, be careful with the GoT Edition if you're after a paper copy. The initial printing was banjaxed and completely left out all of the errata and updates from the original game. Fans were apopleptic. I don't know if they've fixed it yet with another printing.
The digital version has been fixed, or so I understand it. Whilst I enjoyed the D20 Guardians of Order RPG, I really couldn't get on with the Green Ronin version when I borrowed it from a friend, so I haven't picked up a copy myself.
Oh dear. That's bad. How did Green Ronin recover from that little error?
The game never really sold enough to be a big deal either way. There is a lot of errata for the first printing, but I ran a game just fine with the book. I should have just taken a correction pen to my copy though, because I had to tell people the correct thing when they asked questions quite a few times.
Also, the war game aspect of IK I find somewhat attractive - I played a fair bit of WH40K in my youth, and I'm sure i could inject whatever RP was required... So long as the setting is good!
The setting is, IMHO, very good, and over half the core book is dedicated to fluff material. So there's certainly that.
I'm quite fond of both the setting and (most of) the rule system, overall, though I must admit that there are a few places where you just have to kinda forget what 'makes sense' from a roleplay perspective and just go with what the rules explicitly say. This is particular common with the parts that are lifted directly from the wargame.
Overall, I'd say that the IKRPG would have benefited tremendously from having just one guy on the writing team who wasn't familiar with the wargame. There is the occasional 'this doesn't really make sense' rule, as well as the odd "we didn't realize this wasn't obvious to everyone" situation.
But I don't want to completely discouraging people from checking it out! Privateer Press are certainly not pulling any stops when it comes to the quality of their publications. The first splatbook, 'Nations, Kings and Gods', is scheduled for release mid-September and with a detailed look at the nations of the Iron Kingdoms, it looks absolutely fantastic from the reviews.
It's a fun game, if you can ignore the occasional quirk (like, say, that jumping lets you teleport through walls, by - hopefully really unintentional - RAW. :p)
Edit:
Just to add, the game is perfectly playable without minis and measuring tape. That's what we do, and we're not having a harder time with it than Pathfinder or, for that matter, any other RPG. In fact, since it doesn't default to using grids, it's actually easier to ignore than some RPGs I've tried.
That said, if you do want to run combat more wargamey, I understand it is really good at this.
Don't forget, Littlehewy, that Iron Kingdoms also had a 3.5 edition with a bunch of really great and beautiful books. If you like the world and the flavor but some of the system criticisms (which I can't speak to) in this thread are a turn-off, you always have the OGL stuff available!
And Shadows of Esteren is awesome. Have not yet given the system a spin at the table, but will report back.
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Don't forget, Littlehewy, that Iron Kingdoms also had a 3.5 edition with a bunch of really great and beautiful books. If you like the world and the flavor but some of the system criticisms (which I can't speak to) in this thread are a turn-off, you always have the OGL stuff available!
As far as I remember, they are 3.0 Books.
Anyway, some of the mechanics are questionable and you might have to tinker with them.You will need Iron Kingdoms Character Guide and the World Guide
You might want the Monsternomicon which is available for 3.0 and 3.5 rules.
If you like the Steampunk aspects of the game and want to create steamjacks then you might want the Liber Mechanika
But as Brandon said, the Books are beautiful and transport the dark and gritty feeling of the IK very well. IMHO they do it far better than the shiny new full colour book.
Crap, yes. I specifically told my brain *not* to type "3.5" in place of 3.0 as I was posting, but there is it! Tharen is right--I think all of the books with the exception of the Monsternomicon (I think there are two volumes) is 3.5 (meant to ype 3.5 that time right there. Haha). Oops!