RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
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Here are a couple of things I've noticed after my first few games:
Having a large hand size seems to be a detriment as much as a bonus. Sure, you have more options available, but you can also take more combat damage, and a disaster that wipes out your hand depletes your deck that much faster. Had a game with Seoni where her player was afraid to play cards late in the scenario because drawing would kill her. It seems like in most scenarios the 6 card hand size people have barely any deck left at the end. I'm not sure it actually is a good idea to increase hand size using feats.
Having more players makes the game much tougher. You end up getting an extra location per player, which requires exploring, but you get no extra turns with which to play - that's a static 30. So at 10 cards per location, a single player gets 30 turns to attempt 30 cards, but 6 players get 30 turns (5 each) to attempt 80. Sure, you get the various teamwork abilities and lot more blessings around the table, but Brigandoom was a merciless slog in our 6 players game at Gencon, which we only won due to misreading a rule, whereas at home last night our 2 player game thrashed it easily.
Also it's a little disocuraging finishing a scenario only to realize that the reward is a card type your character can't use. We played the Lost Coast adventure last night with Seoni and Seelah and I don't think we kept a single reward card. Of course, that could just mean that there's a strategic choice in picking characters who have a variety of card types.
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As far as hand size that is exactly what is is supposed to do. The classes like wizard and sorcerer have a large hand size and thus go through the deck faster... just like in the RPG where they have a smaller hit dice. The fighter and barbarian both have 4 card hand sizes and they have more hit points in the RPG. In your example the caster had to hold back a little late in the game and the fighter could keep swinging his sword all day long. I think it is a great way show hit points in the card game that keeps the feel of the game.
As far as the larger party going through the blessings deck. That is what makes it a challenge and a Co-op game. In one and two player games you can use blessings and ally's to help you win a fight as you have a lot of turns. In a larger group people need to spend the blessings and ally's more for extra explorations and use teamwork to win the fights or overcome the skill DC's. This is where the ranger, paladin and some spells or items can make a real difference in getting to the bad guy on a deck.
The early rewards are a random card of some kind... but at higher adventures you tend to get more feats of one kind or another. I personally do not want a character that levels every single time they play a session... and sometimes the random loot you get in a dungeon is vendored in the RPG too. That being said letting the group pick something they are allowed to have in their deck should not be too big of a change for a house rule.
I am not trying to shoot down all of your comments as they are accurate for sure... but they are actually things that I personally LIKE about the game.
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RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
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Oh, I'm not complaining per se, just noting things. I had the same initial thought you did about smaller hit dice=more vulnerable to damage, but that interact very oddly with the leveling mechanic - so if I choose to increase my hand size I get more vulnerable to damage? I'm really not sure it's wise to make that choice when leveling. It's like you're losing hp by gaining a level.
In a six player game each player has to go through 2-3 times as many cards in a turn as a solo game...I'm still not convinced that the small teamwork bonuses can make up that difference sustainably. There's probably a 2-4 players sweet spot that balances team bonuses and number of locations.
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I agree that you do have to make some hard choices. Having a larger hand may let you hold onto spells like Invisibility, Armor, or Blessings that prevent that damage too as you get more options. But yes adding a card to your hand as the very first check can be risky.
I have played in 1-4 player games so far and this Friday I will be in a 6 player game so we will see how it goes. In the larger group the paladin was really good at getting us to the bad guys more quickly.
What I meant for teamwork is that in solo and two player games we often had trouble closing a location after meeting the henchmen. So then we had to empty the entire location deck... and even then had to roll the dice a few turns to close the location. If we did not have the right blessing or ally we had to abandon that location until the cards came up that let us close it. Making an INT 6 check with a d4 is hard even if you have a blessing. LOL
With a larger group you can send a character to a location who has a good chance to close that location on the first try. So you move faster that way and are able to use blessings and ally's to explore more in place of using them to make skill checks or whatever.
One thing I like is that the tactics of the game change depending on the number of heroes and the particular heroes in that group.
There is no one way to play that is correct for every group. If you have two heroes you have to things differently then with 4 or 6. This makes the replayability very high.
Chief Technical Officer
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I'm not sure it actually is a good idea to increase hand size using feats.
Yep—there are good things and bad things about increasing your hand size. If you're particularly concerned about it, you may want to wait on increasing your hard size until you've gained a card feat or two.
Having more players makes the game much tougher. You end up getting an extra location per player, which requires exploring, but you get no extra turns with which to play - that's a static 30. So at 10 cards per location, a single player gets 30 turns to attempt 30 cards, but 6 players get 30 turns (5 each) to attempt 80.
Funny story: when the card game was presented to Jason Bulmahn, he immediately came up with the same answer you did. And then he started doing designer math in his head, talking through his thoughts about players ganging up in locations to close them down quickly, and the fact that more players means you have more blessings, allies, and other resources to give you more explorations, and so on, and quickly came to the conclusion that Mike's design was correct. Mike responded that it took his team about six weeks of playtesting to confirm what Jason did in his head in two minutes.
When we did our semi-public playtesting, our playtesters also raised that concern right away... and the data they gave us ultimately showed that large groups had similar win/loss percentages to smaller groups.
Which is to say: it may not be intuitive (unless you're Jason Bulmahn), but it does work as intended.
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Funny story: when the card game was presented to Jason Bulmahn, he immediately came up with the same answer you did. And then he started doing designer math in his head, talking through his thoughts about players ganging up in locations to close them down quickly, and the fact that more players means you have more blessings, allies, and other resources to give you more explorations, and so on, and quickly came to the conclusion that Mike's design was correct. Mike responded that it took his team about six weeks of playtesting to confirm what Jason did in his head in two minutes.
To be fair, I *knew* it in two minutes. It just took my team six weeks to confirm that I knew it. :^)
Mike
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RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
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This sort of stuff is the reason I made this thread. "It's best to wait a while before increasing hand size" is exactly the sort of strategy that's good to know before starting a whole "campaign".
It also interesting that it seems in general, fewer players = use your cards mostly for bonuses, while more players = use mostly for extra explores, relying on the other characters for bonuses.
These sorts of general strategies are the sorts of things I like to find out about a game. Assuming I can get my girlfriend to play again - our Seoni/Seelah team had an unfortunate incident with drawing the same trapped hallway (corridor? can't remember the name exactly) card repeatedly and suffered a TPK. 2d4 damage is harsh.
On an "unrelated" note, I'm trying to figure out who might be best at solo play, just in case my GF decides she doesn't like the game. It seems obvious to discard characters that have specific team bonuses. I'm thinking Lini, Merisiel, Seelah and maybe Ezren?
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Yea, I agree that increasing your hand size isn't a good idea early in the game. Main reason being it that you get more options, but not more 'hit point' or cards in your desk. I like how a lot of the characters can't pick additional hand size until you can use your role cards. If I remember right you get that ability after Hook Mountain. This way you know to use the Card List bonuses on actual cards, not on hand size.
I've only played in 4 person and 2 person, but haven't had a big problem with the Blessing Deck yet. If I was in a 6 person game, I would make sure that I or someone was playing Sajan since he starts off with so many Blessings in his deck. Especially if someone is playing Ezren.
BTW, the other nice thing about playing in a big group is that if you pick up something that you can't use, more than likely someone else in the party can. So it doesn't feel so bad when you get a reward and it is useless for your character.
I found Sajan to be good solo. Just keep using blessings for everything since you get to recharge them. I know at one point I had used all my allies items and I only had 8 blessings left. Though I need to play some more solo games to be sure.
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I'm pretty sure you only get to recharge the blessing when Sajan uses it for combat. If he could do that for everything he'd be sort of broken since he has so many blessing cards.
I played Seoni solo and she worked pretty good. Definitely a glass cannon though. Blasted through most combat encounters but was on the verge of dying way before the blessing deck was depleted.
Yeah, sorry, that may not have been clear. I really was not using them on anything else but combat since my deck was getting thin. That would be way to broken to use it on everything.
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Yeah Seoni sort of powers up when she's about to die, because she can keep recharging her spells over and over. Was blasting through all the combat, unfortunately there were encounters causing discards outside of combat that killed her.
Elendur sums it up pretty well... when the larger hand size characters start to dwindle away their deck, they are powering through it with their ability to recharge. Just hope and pray you don't run into the forced discard situation.
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RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
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Note that generally a character will not have a choice between increasing deck size and increasing hand size - one takes a power feat, the other a card feat. I think as it stands the optimal strategy seems to be to pick proficiencies and other powers before hand size, allowing some time for the deck to grow first.
I started a solo game with Merisiel and so far she seems to kick butt as a solo character - she can almost always sneak attack, giving her crossbows lets her use her Dex for combat, she's good at handling barriers, and other things she can just evade.
Once everyone's subscriptions start arriving, I'm sure the forums at BGG will erupt with ideas and strategies. So far the game is getting good reviews over there.