Question on Hamatula Strike, Pinpoint Poisioner, and Shuriken as weapons.


Rules Questions


Howdy all, so I've been working on making an Evil monk who's all about poisons and debilitating his foes and I came across an odd rules mixup with some feats that allows some stuff that there are no rules for that I can find.

So the Idea is that with pinpoint Poisoner I can use blowgun darts as shuriken when throwing them (but they deal 1d2 piercing), then according to Hamatula strike I can make a grapple attempt since they deal piercing damage. So I've now grappled a foe with a needle from up to 50ft. away?

Here's all the stuff involved

Pinpoint Poisoner:
Benefit: When you use Adder Strike, you can instead poison up to two blowgun darts that you can then use to strike your opponent in melee. (Drawing such darts is a free action.) While holding these darts, you can spend a standard action to attack with one or a full-attack action to attack with both. Such attacks are considered melee touch attacks that deal 1d2 damage plus any bonuses you gain on your normal unarmed strike damage, and they deliver the poison. You can instead throw such darts as if they were shuriken, making your ranged attack rolls against the target’s AC.

Normal: Applying poison to a weapon or single piece of ammunition is a standard action.

Hamatula Strike:
Benefit: Whenever you damage an opponent with a piercing weapon, you can immediately make a grapple check; success means the opponent is impaled on your weapon and you both gain the grappled condition. While the opponent is impaled, as an attack action you may make a grapple check on your turn at a -4 penalty to damage the opponent with your weapon, even if your weapon cannot normally be used in a grapple.

Normal: You can only attack with an unarmed strike, natural weapon, or light weapon against opponents you are grappling.

Shuriken Weapon Entry:
Benefit: Although they are thrown weapons, shuriken are treated as ammunition for the purposes of drawing them, crafting masterwork or otherwise special versions of them, and what happens to them after they are thrown.

Drawback: A shuriken can't be used as a melee weapon.

Traits: ammunition, monk

So, when using the darts from Pinpoint Poisoner at range they count as Shuriken.
Shuriken are Thrown Weapons that are treated as Ammo for everything except when you're actually making them attack, so you can use them with effects that only work with weapons.
(This is one of the reasons this wont work with bows/crossbows/guns. The portion that deals the damage is the ammunition. I think this makes it so it doesn't work with these, but I could be wrong.) Also, this portion works with any ranged, non-ammunition piercing weapon (Either thrown or something like the rope dart)
Then, since you are hitting with a piercing weapon you get to make a grapple check to impale your foe with your weapon. If you succeed you and your foe gain the grappled condition. (does this mean you grapple your foe, or that you're both grappled but no-one is in control...). Then as an attack action (on your next turn) you can make a grapple check. If you succeed you damage your foe. Now, is this check made to maintain the grapple or just to deal the damage? (Blargh the wording on this feat kills me X_X)

So, I do get that this was only intended for melee attacks, but since it leaves it open for ranged attacks I wanted to see how it would work. So what do you think?


I think you're making it unnecessarily complex. As written, anyone with Hamatula Strike seems to be able to "grapple" people with a longbow at 250 feet, or a javelin at 30, just from the wording of Hamatula Strike.

That feat is obviously broken and the effect as described is nonsensical.

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