So is anyone else thinking of stating Dragotha up as a mythic monster??
I was thinking of bringing the new mythic rules into this campaign. My group is starting Gathering of Winds next, and...
I have been thinking of the same thing. My home game has already started chapter 10, so I may be able to slip some mythic in at the end, otherwise I have 2 PbP here that I can introduce once they get to that point.
@ Steel_Wind
What do you plan to do with Kyuss?
Any thoughts on how many mythic tiers you plan to give the PCs before they fight Dragotha, and any thoughts on how many mythic tiers to give Dragotha.
I'm thinking that I'll probably give them 5-6 mythic tiers before the end of the campaign.
Ideas for mythic tiers
Gathering of Winds- 1st mythic tier when they get the rod of seven parts fragment
Spire of Longshadows- 2nd mythic tier towards the end, possibly after their last vision or maybe from the defeating the harbinger
Prince of Redhand- I'm not sure if they'll get one here or not. Maybe something tied to well of trypich knowledge
Library of Last Resort: This adventure has lots of mythic potential. I'm thinking of replacing some of the trials/monsters with tane from the bestiaries- jabberwocky, bandersnatch. The nightmare beast, and roc king could easily all be mythic creatures. There's hand of Vecna that could provide Darl Quelthos with mythic power, and possibly give the PCs a tier if they take it from him or kill him. Then there's the big dream sequence at the end, which might give them a tier.
Kings of the Rift: considering giving Brazzemal a mythic tier or 2. The kaiju carrion crawler sounds like it needs a few mythic tiers. A couple of the giants might be mythic. I'm considering granting a mythic tier for destroying Dragotha's phylactery.
The Worm Crawl Fissure: Assembly Bucknard's fractured spirit might give the players a mythic tier in lieu of the other benefits. Defeating Dragotha will grant a mythic tier, and Dragotha will be mythic. The lich might well be mythic, as might a few of the other monsters
Dawn of a New Age: I haven't thought about this too much yet
On one hand, I think Age of Worms has great Mythic potential. On the other hand, since the PCs will reach 20th lvl and have several mythic tiers (if not all) you will need to make a lot of adjustments in order to keep the game challenging. The high difficulty is probably the most known trait of AoW.
IMHO, It is possible to end the game with 10 tiers, the modules provide a lot of encounters/opportunities to gain them.
About Dragotha: If I were to re-stat him (you know I did it for Pathfinder), I'll give him:
- Stats as in the module.
- Red Dragon Great Wyrm age category, with all the added benefits
- Dracolich template as in the Draconomicon; or Ravener with the Thassilonian ravener variant power. In this case, you could probably keep some thing from the dracolich template to make him "unique".
- 10 mythic tiers, as befits a dragon of his age and power. The mythic abilities you give him will be key in providing an adequate challenge. The Mythic Adventures book suggests picking 11 special abilities for a creature of this rank (for example, the champion's ability to move + full attack). I recommend NOT CHOOSING Dragon Blood and Dragon Fury abilities, as they won't even make a scratch on a high-level and mythic character (too low damage values). Dual Initiative will make him more mobile, and allow more attacks per turn.
For feats, I would definitely give him Power Attack(M) and Improved Initiative(M). The rest I'm not sure. Improved Critical(M), maybe?
Overall pick mythic "things" that improve his melee attacks because his spells will be for buffs and heals. Keep the red dragon 3.5 ability to cast cleric spells, as it gives him versatility.
About the mythic trials:
- Gathering of winds: The only spot I see worth of mythic is definitely the acquisition of the fragment of the rod of seven parts.
- Spire of Long Shadows: When the PCs complete the module, instead of giving them the "destiny points", award them a mythic tier.
- Prince of Redhand: In my Forgotten Realms AoW, the overgod was truly divine in nature, an avolakia experiment infused with faith. If you use something like this (he is the focus for the Ebon Triad's faith), you can give the PCs a tier after his defeat (they absorb his mythic essence).
- The Library of Last Resort: All your suggestions are good, although I don't see the characters getting more than 2 tiers in this adventure. Maybe one for completing the trials and another if they survive the dream sequence. Darl should definitely be mythic (he survived in my campaign and helped the characters, of course because that benefited him greatly). A mythic water and air elemental could be the origin of the storm, or protect it.
- Kings of the Rift: Destroying the phylactery is a big deal: It should give a tier. I agree on the Kaiju, it seems to be the progenitor of the entire race so some mythic ranks will give her a few interesting powers. It can also help the characters get a hold of one of the keys, if you give them the ability to "sense" the kaiju because of her immense power. Brazzemal and the giants, while cool, don't scream "mythic" to me like other monsters. Maybe Kagro and Vercinabex could have some tiers or ranks (they are not the same) because of being exposed to the mythic energies the vault keys radiate.
- Into the WormCrawl Fissure: Your idea is the best to keep the plot as is: instead of the fragments benefits, recovering Balakarde's fragments gives the characters mythic tiers (one for each or one for all). Slaying Dragotha could give another one.
- Dawn of a New Age: This is easy, instead of weakening Kyuss, fighting despair in Alhaster and destroying the Unlife Vortex gives the characters 2 tiers. Alternatively, you could give one tier for doing both and one for defeating Lashonna. For her, I would NOT USE the mythic vampire template. Ranks or Tiers will give better abilities.
I think the spots you point out all make good options for gaining mythic tiers. My main concern is that if I end up giving out too many it will be difficult to balance the encounters in the module. Beefing up some of the boss fights by making them fight mythic villains would help with this, but you can't justify doing that with all the encounters, which means that some of the lesser encounters might end up being way too easy. So the question becomes what's the best way to give characters a mythic tiers and still balance the other parts of the AP?
There are a few approaches one could take that come immediately to mind:
- reduce the treasure you hand out since mythic tiers can help make up for gear in terms of power
- advance some of the lesser monsters in non-mythic ways
- just make the boss fights really challenging with mythic bosses and let them steam roll through some of the other encounters.
On one hand, I think Age of Worms has great Mythic potential. On the other hand, since the PCs will reach 20th lvl and have several mythic tiers (if not all) you will need to make a lot of adjustments in order to keep the game challenging. The high difficulty is probably the most known trait of AoW.
IMHO, It is possible to end the game with 10 tiers, the modules provide a lot of encounters/opportunities to gain them.
** spoiler omitted **...
Well, I think Mythic has nothing to do with balance. If anything, it allows characters to break the system even more. Even giving only one tier will make characters much harder to kill/challenge.
If they have tiers, the standard enemies are going to be easier. After reading the Mythic book from cover to cover, I'm afraid even the mythic monsters don't stand a chance against a full party of mythic characters. If I were going to do this, I would aim for interesting and hard mythic encounters, without worrying too much about the rest. But the mythic encounters will require some work to be as memorable as they should. You just have to decide if you want to keep your game as is, or start with the mythic stuff.
For specific examples, I'm afraid you will have to wait until (at least) the second book of Wrath of the Righteous, where the mythic fun begins. Since James Jacobs is doing the work on the encounters, it could be helpful to ask him about this on his "Ask JJ" thread.
If you ask me, I seriously don't know how they will make the AP challenging, with all the crazy stuff the PCs will be able to do... It also doesn't help that Mythic Adventures uses some unclear language when defining feats and special abilities.
The standard AoW was hard to balance on the last chapters, with mythic it will become harder. In my case, I was happy with the results: I challenged my players enough (they died quite a few times) to keep the apocaliptic theme this AP has, without it being tiresome or overwhelming.
I'll probably give them one mythic tier at the end of Gathering of Winds, and then see how that affects the game. I don't mind if they are a little more hearty, but if they start mowing through all the opposition with no challenge then things will become a problem. The one thing I like about the mythic tier stuff is that the DM has a lot of control over how often allows characters to advance. They are essentially entitled to advance in character levels on a regular basis, but I would make sure that mythic advancement is a bonus.
I'm running Rise of the Runelords with my groups as well and we are switching back and forth, so they won't be moving through the rest of AoW overly quick. That means I have some time to look a bit more closely at the mythic rules. They are also easy to remove, which is nice. I might be able to find in story ways to make their mythic power come and go a bit, so they would have them for certain parts of the AP and not others. I'd have to think on that a little.
I'll also have to look closely at the WotR AP and see how they implement it in that campaign. I'll be interested to see the feedback on the boards about how well it is working.
I decided I probably won't use mythic material for RotRL, except maybe for Kazourg, as I have the anniversary edition and thus don't need to do conversion work the way I am for AoW.
I'm also running RotRL right now, and I don't plan on using Mythic Adventures with it. We are starting book 5 (Sins of the Saviors) and so far the AP has been relatively easy for the players, more so now that they have double digit levels. For the important battles I did alternate statblocks and modified encounters a bit (I have a document similar to the AoW one), wich made them harder and a lot more interesting.
Since Karzoug officially doesn't have mythic levels, I plan on staying on" normal mode" until the end of the game. Maybe after it, when the PCs have to destroy a certain artifact (Karzoug's burning glaive), I will give them some tiers and let them fight the oliphaunt of Jandelay, whose stats will appear in September
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I recently stated up Dragotha. My plan is to hand out Mythic levels once they
Here's my finished Mythic Dragotha, any comments/criticisms are welcome.
Dragotha
Variant lich mythic red dragon wyrm
CR 27
XP 3,276,800
CE Gargantuan undead (dragon, fire, mythic)
Init +14(M); Senses blindsight 60 ft., darkvision 120 ft., low-light vision, smoke vision, x-ray vision; Perception +39
Aura fire (10 ft., 2d6 fire), frightful presence (330 ft., DC 39), fear (60 ft., DC 39)
DEFENSE
AC 65, touch 11, flat-footed 64 (+8 armor, +4 deflection, +1 dodge, +46 natural, –4 size) 1d4+5 images (max 12), Will DC 28 or dazzled
hp 554 (27d8+432); fast healing 5
Fort +34, Ref +19, Will +26
Defensive Abilities channel resistance +4, dragon blood (2d6 fire), fortification (50%), rejuvenation;
DR 20/epic and magic, 15/bludgeoning and magic;
Immune dragon traits, cold, electricity, fire, paralysis, sleep; Resist acid 30, sonic 30; SR 36
OFFENSE
Speed 90 ft., fly 250 ft. (clumsy)
Melee bite +56 (4d6+38/18–20/x3 plus bleed and grab plus 1d8+13 negative energy plus paralysis (Fort DC 39)), 2 claws +54 (2d8+28/19–20 plus bleed and grab), 2 wings +54 (2d6+14), tail slap +54 (2d8+38) or
Power Attack: bite +49 (4d6+66/18–20/x3 plus bleed and grab plus 1d8+13 negative energy plus paralysis (Fort DC 39)), 2 claws +47 (2d8+49/19–20 plus bleed and grab), 2 wings +47 (2d6+24), tail slap +47 (2d8+49) or
Greater Vital Strike: bite +56 (16d6+38/18–20/x3 plus bleed and grab plus 1d8+13 negative energy plus paralysis (Fort DC 39)) or
touch +56 (1d8+13 negative energy plus paralysis Fort DC 39)
Space 20 ft.; Reach 15 ft. (20 ft. with bite)
Special Attacks bleed (2d6), breath weapon (60-ft. cone, 22d10 fire damage, Reflex DC 32 half, usable every 1d4 rounds), crush, dragon fury (2d6 fire), lingering breath (4d6 fire, 10 rounds), manipulate flames, melt stone, mythic power (10/day,8 left, surge +1d12), sooty flame, swallow whole (2d6 bludgeoning and 2d6 fire damage, AC 28, 51 hp), tail sweep (DC 32, 2d6+25), wild arcana
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 27th; concentration +34)
At will—detect magic, find the path, pyrotechnics (DC 19), suggestion (DC 20), wall of fire
Sorcerer Spells Known (caster level 17th; concentration +24)
8th (4/day)—create greater undead, horrid wilting (DC 34)
7th (7/day)—destruction (DC 33), forcecage M, greater teleport
6th (7/day)—geas/quest (DC 32) M, greater dispel magic, harm (DC 32) M
5th (7/day)—dominate person (DC 31), telekinesis (DC 31), wall of force M, waves of fatigue
4th (7/day)—charm monster (DC 30), dimension door, ice stormM, sending
3rd (8/day)—animate dead, haste M**, inflict serious wounds (DC 29), ray of exhaustion (DC 29) M
2nd (8/day)—blindness/deafness (DC 28), death knell (DC 28), detect thoughts* (DC 28), mirror image* M, resist energy
1st (8/day)—divine favor*M, inflict light wounds (DC 27), magic missile M, unseen servant, shield of faith*
M Mythic spell
* Already Cast
** Already factored, not yet cast
STATISTICS
Str 50*, Dex 11*, Con -, Int 22, Wis 23, Cha 42*
* Dragotha has a +5 inherent bonus to Strength, Dexterity, and Charisma scores
Base Atk +27; CMB +51 (+55 grapple); CMD 66 (70 vs. trip)
Feats Critical Focus M, Greater Vital Strike, Improved Critical (bite) M, Improved Critical (claws), Improved Initiative M, Improved Iron Will, Improved Vital Strike, Iron Will M, Multiattack, Persistent Spell, Power Attack M, Quicken Spell, Staggering Critical, Vital Strike
Skills (+3 to all because of mythic divine favor) Appraise +30, Bluff +40, Diplomacy +40, Fly +10, Intimidate +40, Knowledge (arcana) +31, Knowledge (geography) +31, Knowledge (history) +31, Knowledge (nature) +31, Knowledge (religion) +31, Perception +39, Sense Motive +39, Spellcraft +31, Stealth +32, Use Magic Device +41; Racial Modifiers +8 Perception, +8 Sense Motive, +8 Stealth
Languages Abyssal, Common, Draconic, Dwarven, Giant, Orc
SQ dragon cantrips, mythic spellcasting
Possessions headband of alluring charisma +6, ring of spell turning, amulet of mighty fists +5, bracers of armor +8, two doses of ruby dust (worth 1,500 gp each) for forcecage spells
SPECIAL ABILITIES
Fire Aura (Su) A wyrm red dragon is surrounded by an aura of
intense heat. All creatures within 10 feet take 2d6 points of
fire damage at the beginning of the dragon’s turn.
Manipulate Flames (Su) A wyrm red dragon can control any fire spell within 110 feet of the dragon as a standard action. This ability allows it to move any fire effect in the area, as if it were the caster. This ability also allows it to reposition a stationary fire effect, although the new placement must be one allowed by the spell. Finally, for 1 round following the use of this ability, the dragon can control any new fire spell cast within its area of control, as if it were the caster. It can make all decisions allowed to the caster, including canceling the spell if it so desires.
Melt Stone (Su) The dragon can use its breath weapon to melt rock at a range of 100 feet, affecting a 55-foot-radius area. The area becomes lava to a depth of 1 foot. Any creature in contact with the lava takes 20d6 points of fire damage on the first round, 10d6 on the second, and none thereafter as the lava hardens and cools. If used on a wall or ceiling, treat this ability as an avalanche that deals fire damage.
Persistent Spells Dragotha casts divine favor, shield of faith, detect thoughts, mirror image, resist energy (acid) and resist energy (sonic) every day as persistent spells.
I'm working on Kyuss, and I keep hitting a mental block on him as well.