Using a scroll (Use Magic Device)

[勝20100]

(I was getting away from the OP question on another thread so I rewrite the whole thing there)

My question is about character wanting to use a scroll.

1. Decipher the Writing
The first part is that the character need to understand the magic in the scroll. It is made only once for a particular scroll, can be done in advance, and no one else can explain to the character the magical writing.
To achieve that understanding, the character either:
– cast Read Magic (casting it by using a wand, a scroll, or a spell-like ability)
– use Spellcraft (DC 20+Spell level)
– use Use Magic Device with a DC=Spellcraft DC+5.

2a. Non-casting class or wrong type of scroll (divine/arcane)

The second part is emulating a spell casting ability in a class that has the spell in his list, this is done using the Emulate a class feature of Use Magic Device with a DC of 20. The character caster level will be the result of the roll minus 20. Failure to the check means the scroll can not be used (the DC is 20, so the character could get a low caster level inferior to the scroll’s).

If the character does not have a good enough ability score (the one from the emulated spell casting class; 10+spell level); it also need to be emulated. The emulated will be the UMD result minus 15. Failure to emulate a good enough ability score means the scroll can not be used.

The character tries to cast the scroll:
If the emulated caster level is enough, the spell is cast.
If the caster level is not enough, the character need to do a caster level check, using the emulated caster level versus DC scroll caster level+1. Failure to this check means a DC 5 Wisdom check to avoid scroll mishap.
If the spell is arcane, roll for arcane spell failure if any.

2b. Casting class but no need to UMD

If a character has the Spell class feature, his spells are the same type as the scroll (arcane/divine), he has a high enough casting ability (10+Spell level) and the spell is in his class’ spell list, he doesn’t need to use the skill. If his caster level is not enough, he will need to make a caster level check versus DC scroll caster level+1.

2c. Casting class but UMD needed

This happens when the character ability score is not high enough. Also when the spell is not on the class list, for example a Magus using an arcane scroll of Power Word Kill, a Bard using an arcane scroll of Ill Omen or a Paladin using a divine scroll of Raise Dead.

The character already has a spell casting feature, so he can use the Use a Scroll part of UMD to consider the spell in his list of spells. This is not needed if the issue was a not good enough ability score.
This is a UMD check with a DC of 20+caster level. Failure means the character can not cast the spell.

If the character does not have a good enough ability score (in his casting class; 10+spell level); it also need to be emulated. The emulated will be the UMD result minus 15. Failure to emulate a good enough ability score means the scroll can not be used.

The character tries to cast the scroll:
If his caster level is enough, the spell is cast.
If the caster level is not enough, the character need to do a caster level check, using his caster level versus DC scroll caster level+1. Failure to this check means a DC 5 Wisdom check to avoid scroll mishap.
If the spell is arcane, roll for arcane spell failure if any. This might be avoided for classes that ignore arcane spell failure (a bard in light armor is such an example).

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A character can also try to emulate a class that doesn’t have the scroll in his spell list (but as always of the correct type) then use the Use a Scroll option to have it in his spell list. It makes sense to do that when trying to avoid emulating an ability scores (usually needing a check of 25~34 while the Use a Scroll DC is 20~29).

--

Whatever the result of the spell casting, this is a standard action (or the spell's casting time, whichever is longer) and it provokes attacks of opportunity exactly as casting a spell does.

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I think I understood it right this time (was not the case before…).

[Hendelbolaf]

Here are a few quick notes.

There should not be an Arcane Spell Failure chance with reading a scroll since that is based on the somatic components of the spell and you do not need to provide those for scroll activation, the same as material and verbal components.

I am not sure what 2b is trying to say. The heading makes it sound like a wizard trying to cast a scroll on the wizard/sorcerer list. If that is the case, then there is no need to make a UMD check. If his caster level is lower than that needed to cast the spell then there is a separate caster level check that needs to be made. I may be missing something here.

Other than that, it seems like you have a good grasp of UMD for activating scrolls, especially for non-casters like rogues and ninja.

[Snorter]

I believe with 2b, this is referring to cases where the scroll is the same type (arcane/divine), but from a different class, such as a wizard attempting to use a bard's scroll.

As far as I'm aware, the distinction between arcane and divine spells is mostly cosmetic. A spell is either on your class list, or not.
A wizard attempting to use a cure light wounds scroll would have the same difficulty, regardless of whether the scroll had been scribed by a bard, cleric, or oracle.
The bard could pick up the cleric's cure scroll, and use it without penalty.

I believe this has been stated by the developers, since back in the 3.0 days, but the evidence is implied, by the fact that whenever you see scrolls or wands found as treasure, where those spells exist on both an arcane and divine list, they don't specify what class crafted them. If it were relevant, or important, it would be an essential part of the description.

[勝20100]

Arcane spell failure is indicated under the PRD:

PRD wrote:

Using a scroll is like casting a spell for purposes of arcane spell failure chance.

2c (was 2b before editing) would be used by Magus casting a Wizard spell not on his list, or a Bard casting a Witch spell. I’ll try to edit the original post to be clearer on that point.

[Hendelbolaf]

勝20100 wrote:

Arcane spell failure is indicated under the PRD:

PRD wrote:

Using a scroll is like casting a spell for purposes of arcane spell failure chance.

You are correct. I knew the material component of the spell was already considered in the scroll, I just forgot about that extra line there under scrolls in the magic item section. So, does that mean that you need one hand to hold the scroll and the other to perform the somatic components of the spell? Normally a caster can hold the material components in one hand and work the somatic components in the same free hand so I think the scroll would work the same way. I guess it is just a game mechanic to keep those darn wizards/sorcerers from wearing armor (of course you can get around it with a haramaki if you did not want to go the bracer way).

Again, it looks like you have a solid grasp and have outlined scroll casting via UMD rather thoroughly.

[勝20100]

Snorter wrote:

(…)

As far as I'm aware, the distinction between arcane and divine spells is mostly cosmetic. A spell is either on your class list, or not.
A wizard attempting to use a cure light wounds scroll would have the same difficulty, regardless of whether the scroll had been scribed by a bard, cleric, or oracle.
The bard could pick up the cleric's cure scroll, and use it without penalty.

I believe this has been stated by the developers, since back in the 3.0 days, but the evidence is implied, by the fact that whenever you see scrolls or wands found as treasure, where those spells exist on both an arcane and divine list, they don't specify what class crafted them. If it were relevant, or important, it would be an essential part of the description.

If it was only cosmetic, the line about arcane and divine spell wouldn’t be indicated in the scroll section.

The random treasure generator of Ultimate Equipment generate Arcane and Divine scroll. The one from the Core rulebook has no detail but it doesn’t generate specific spells so the type is chosen by the GM based on the scroll’s spell and its creator I guess.
I’m surprised scroll’s type (arcane/divine) are not indicated in scenarios. The only Pathfinder scenario I have are for PFSOP.

In PFSOP, all scrolls are considered both divine and arcane so there is no indication of it.