I am running an Eberron game using the Pathfinder rules. The party is 8th level and after having cleared a ruined castle they want to take up residence and turn it into an Inn/Adventuring hotspot. The castle is located on top of an entrance to Khyber and in an out of the way area of the Shadow Marches near a House Tharashk Eberron dragonshard field.
One of the PCs is a Paladin who is a member of House Orien and has the Mark of Passage. Another of the characters is a Warforged Artificer. In order to increase accessibility and to set up a trade agreement with House Tharashk to move dragonshards they wanted to make a teleportation device. We settled on a set of stone monoliths (stonehenge like) that allow teleportation.
They want to make a set of Teleport Stones that allow anyone with the Mark of Passage to use Greater Teleport to teleport to another of the stones. This would be a command word activated wondrous item that has unlimited uses per day. The stones would be fixed in place once activated and could not be moved without destroying them. Stones could be added to this network and you need at least two of them before they are of any use. Already existing networks cannot be combined.
I used the formulas in the book as a starting point because I couldn't find any similar items. The basic formula I used was CL 13 x 7 (spell level) x 1800gp = 163,800gp. Now this is for an item that casts Greater Teleport using the full normal rules, these items are limited in that you can only teleport to another of these specific items. I agreed to reduce the price by 75% due to this limitation on the item. This brings the price down to 40,950gp. Further, the item is limited to use by someone with the Mark of Passage so I applied the 30% class requirement price reduction bringing the value down to 28,665gp. I rounded the final price up to 30,000gp for ease of calculations.
This means the Artificer can make the stones for 9750gp as he can make items for .325 of base value, but you have to make at least 2 stones so it will cost about 20,000 to make the base set. Does this seem like a reasonable price or did I discount the item too much for the limitation placed on the Greater Teleport effect? Any input is appreciated.
Seeing as it is nearly identical in function to a permanent teleportation circle, I'd base the price off of that.
Heck, you can even say it IS a teleportation circle, with the stone monoliths marking the area (since the spell says the diagram is hard to spot otherwise).
It costs 25,030gp to have someone else create a PTC for you.
No. The base price is 163,800. You reducing the price by 75% was your choice -- he already gets a 67.5% discount for being an artificer -- these two discounts together give him a 91.875% discount. The 30% discounts are always bullshhh... almost, ALMOST, no homebrew table allows the 10% or 30% discounts.
If I allowed artificers in my game, it would be 163,800g x 0.325 = 53,235g each.
Seeing as it is nearly identical in function to a permanent teleportation circle, I'd base the price off of that.
Heck, you can even say it IS a teleportation circle, with the stone monoliths marking the area (since the spell says the diagram is hard to spot otherwise).
It costs 25,030gp to have someone else create a PTC for you.
This seems like the most eloquent solution to me, and how I would handle it.
I would not grant any discount due to the limitations on the item, as these are benefits to the PCs, not hindrances. It's similar to the PC who wants a discount on crafting a magic sword that only he can use.
OK, This was an interesting puzzle but I came up with a solution as if my players asked me how much it would cost to do this and how to implement it.
I would start by using the teleport spell instead of greater. I would allow for the fact that a monolith must be created at the terminus to offset the mishap/on target chance. The item always works. The biggest drawback is the 900 miles max range. This may or may not be a big deal to you.
I would set these monoliths up as spoke and hub systems. So for 81,000gp (5x9x1800) you would get a hub station, and 3 terminal stations. (This is based on being able to take caster+3 beings on a teleport. I realize it has absolutely no relationship to this item, but it seemed a reasonable place to start) From the hub you would be able to travel to which ever terminus you wanted to, but the terminus would be able to only travel back to the hub. Terminus points could be upgraded to hubs by paying the difference in cost which would allow the establishment of a vast network of transport gates.
Purchased separately the hub would be 40500gp and the individual terminus points would be 13500gp. So the first two gates would be 54000 or for your artificer to craft about 17550gp. I included no discount for the Mark of Passage because that seems like a security feature for the system rather than a detriment.
Ultimately the whole things feels under-priced, but the fact that the players are exploring ways to spend money aside from static buffs and that this item really serves as a story-telling tool makes me happy to price it cheap to encourage the effort.
Seeing as it is nearly identical in function to a permanent teleportation circle, I'd base the price off of that.
Heck, you can even say it IS a teleportation circle, with the stone monoliths marking the area (since the spell says the diagram is hard to spot otherwise).
It costs 25,030gp to have someone else create a PTC for you.
One to go and one to come back again 50,060gp. Pretty close to my 54,000. Although as an item my version isn't dispellable. Shrug.
Seeing as it is nearly identical in function to a permanent teleportation circle, I'd base the price off of that.
Heck, you can even say it IS a teleportation circle, with the stone monoliths marking the area (since the spell says the diagram is hard to spot otherwise).
It costs 25,030gp to have someone else create a PTC for you.
We looked at teleportation circle but they didn't want the trap element of it so we went with just greater teleport, though it is close to what they wanted. The other aspect is that it doesn't have a command word so anyone can just go through it.
No. The base price is 163,800. You reducing the price by 75% was your choice -- he already gets a 67.5% discount for being an artificer -- these two discounts together give him a 91.875% discount. The 30% discounts are always bullshhh... almost, ALMOST, no homebrew table allows the 10% or 30% discounts.
If I allowed artificers in my game, it would be 163,800g x 0.325 = 53,235g each.
The price you calculated is for an item you can carry around with you and use greater teleport at will to any valid destination. Seems fair to grant some kind of discount since the item is a limited form of greater teleport. The artificer took a feat and a trait to get the cost for making magic items down to .325 from .5 .
Oh, I forgot to add that in addition to upgrading terminus stations to hubs, that you also could just create terminus stations and add them to existing hubs, no limit.
Seeing as it is nearly identical in function to a permanent teleportation circle, I'd base the price off of that.
Heck, you can even say it IS a teleportation circle, with the stone monoliths marking the area (since the spell says the diagram is hard to spot otherwise).
It costs 25,030gp to have someone else create a PTC for you.
This seems like the most eloquent solution to me, and how I would handle it.
I would not grant any discount due to the limitations on the item, as these are benefits to the PCs, not hindrances. It's similar to the PC who wants a discount on crafting a magic sword that only he can use.
So if I use the 25,000gp would that be the base value of the item or the creation cost. If it is the creation cost I should reduce it further considering the artificer took a feat and a trait to lower the creation costs of magic items by an additional 17.5%. The dragonmark requirement is campaign flavor, does provide some security, but is also a hindrance as the PC with the Mark of Passage isn't going to be around all the time to activate it as they will be adventuring. This means they need to have hirelings with the Mark of Passage on Han dot operate and would require a not insignificant monthly expenditure to keep on hand.
OK, This was an interesting puzzle but I came up with a solution as if my players asked me how much it would cost to do this and how to implement it.
I would start by using the teleport spell instead of greater. I would allow for the fact that a monolith must be created at the terminus to offset the mishap/on target chance. The item always works. The biggest drawback is the 900 miles max range. This may or may not be a big deal to you.
I would set these monoliths up as spoke and hub systems. So for 81,000gp (5x9x1800) you would get a hub station, and 3 terminal stations. (This is based on being able to take caster+3 beings on a teleport. I realize it has absolutely no relationship to this item, but it seemed a reasonable place to start) From the hub you would be able to travel to which ever terminus you wanted to, but the terminus would be able to only travel back to the hub. Terminus points could be upgraded to hubs by paying the difference in cost which would allow the establishment of a vast network of transport gates.
Purchased separately the hub would be 40500gp and the individual terminus points would be 13500gp. So the first two gates would be 54000 or for your artificer to craft about 17550gp. I included no discount for the Mark of Passage because that seems like a security feature for the system rather than a detriment.
Ultimately the whole things feels under-priced, but the fact that the players are exploring ways to spend money aside from static buffs and that this item really serves as a story-telling tool makes me happy to price it cheap to encourage the effort.
This is similar, though more detailed, to what the players and I were discussing. They wanted greater teleport because the 900 mile range is a issue because the castle is about 2500 miles from Sharn where their adventuring guild is located and the place they wanted to teleport link to.
Ultimately the whole things feels under-priced, but the fact that the players are exploring ways to spend money aside from static buffs and that this item really serves as a story-telling tool makes me happy to price it cheap to encourage the effort.
This. It feels way under-priced. And if you were to carry the price to its logical conclusion, every merchant house in your campaign world should have several of these already operational. It's just too cheap for the massive benefit to trade.
I might allow it at the super-low price you've quoted, but I think I'd have to work out some reason why the PCs can get it for cheap, whereas others can't. It simply doesn't make sense otherwise.
Thanks for all the replies!
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Perhaps you could use this opportunity to have another house step in and offer to say build some kind transportation for them for a useage fee or cute of the profits. A cool lightning rail or something towards the area a bit more suited for moving bulk ores and the like.
Certainly there must be a lots of folks out to get their hands into your PC's pockets.
So if I use the 25,000gp would that be the base value of the item or the creation cost.
For that option the 25,030 would be the cost of spell casting services of a 17th level wizard to cast the teleportation circle, and for that same wizard to then cast permanency on that spell. This would not be an item, it would still be a spell, and therefore subject to dispel magic and its ilk. The artificer would not be able to do this for the group, and discounts he receives for item creation would not apply.
Ultimately the whole things feels under-priced, but the fact that the players are exploring ways to spend money aside from static buffs and that this item really serves as a story-telling tool makes me happy to price it cheap to encourage the effort.This. It feels way under-priced. And if you were to carry the price to its logical conclusion, every merchant house in your campaign world should have several of these already operational. It's just too cheap for the massive benefit to trade.
I might allow it at the super-low price you've quoted, but I think I'd have to work out some reason why the PCs can get it for cheap, whereas others can't. It simply doesn't make sense otherwise.
House Orien already provides this type of service in the setting and that is partly the reason I wanted to have the Mark of Passage needed. However this item would increase the ability for the House to make teleport available as normally they would need a 13th level caster or someone with the Siberys Mark of Passage to sell it. I may require the Lesser Mark of Passage (5th level character) to use it which would reduce the pool of available users more.
For that option the 25,030 would be the cost of spell casting services of a 17th level wizard to cast the teleportation circle, and for that same wizard to then cast permanency on that spell. This would not be an item, it would still be a spell, and therefore subject to dispel magic and its ilk. The artificer would not be able to do this for the group, and discounts he receives for item creation would not apply.So if I use the 25,000gp would that be the base value of the item or the creation cost.
But what if they wanted to make a item that is based on that effect. Pricing the item as a 1 use Teleportation Circle seems like it would be even cheaper than my original price and really would just be a scroll that the Artificer could UMD to cast.
Perhaps you could use this opportunity to have another house step in and offer to say build some kind transportation for them for a useage fee or cute of the profits. A cool lightning rail or something towards the area a bit more suited for moving bulk ores and the like.
Certainly there must be a lots of folks out to get their hands into your PC's pockets.
House Orien controls the Lightning Rail as well and the cost to lay and protect 2500 miles of conductor stones through some hostile territory and through treacherous terrain would be much higher. Currently House Lyrandar is already supplying transportation for the House Tharashk dragonshard shipments over water using Soarwood skiffs and Wind Galleons so there already is some House competition. House Cannith could become interested if a lot of these items are being made especially sic the artificer is seen as taking business from them.
House Orien controls the Lightning Rail as well and the cost to lay and protect 2500 miles of conductor stones through some hostile territory and through treacherous terrain would be much higher. Currently House Lyrandar is already supplying transportation for the House Tharashk dragonshard shipments over water using Soarwood skiffs and Wind Galleons
This item makes both the Lightning Rail and airships completely obsolete. How would creating this item not cause open war between the Great Houses? You're talking about stealing the primary source of income for two of the Great Houses...
Scrolls are more expensive than hiring someone to cast the spell directly.
I totally agree with Lord Pendragon.
House Orien controls the Lightning Rail as well and the cost to lay and protect 2500 miles of conductor stones through some hostile territory and through treacherous terrain would be much higher. Currently House Lyrandar is already supplying transportation for the House Tharashk dragonshard shipments over water using Soarwood skiffs and Wind GalleonsThis item makes both the Lightning Rail and airships completely obsolete. How would creating this item not cause open war between the Great Houses? You're talking about stealing the primary source of income for two of the Great Houses...
Teleportation circle being 25,000 already creates this problem and House Orien already sells teleportation services. Also people with the Mark of Passage are relatively rare so you can't just have them everywhere. In fact teleportation circle is more of a problem because it has no limitations on it. This issue is not limited to creating problems in just my campaign or Eberron, this same issue would exist in Golarion or any campaign world that has teleportation circle. Really the teleport stones are a more balanced approach since they have some limitations on use even if they are cheaper.
Also with teleport you can only take so many creatures who can only carry so much so anything too large to teleport would have to take other means of transportation. With extra dimensional storage items you can increase the capacity a lot, but there still would be some things too big to teleport.
Well, the big difference is that you need a 17th level caster to make them and to make them permanent. The change in permanency rules from 3.5 to pathfinder would have to be reconciled with the artificer class. Saying they only cost 25,000gp and actually finding an NPC to do it for you are totally separate equations. It could be that the only place you would find a caster able to do it would be in one of the Major houses and they may not want to jeopardize their monopoly.
Well, the big difference is that you need a 17th level caster to make them and to make them permanent. The change in permanency rules from 3.5 to pathfinder would have to be reconciled with the artificer class. Saying they only cost 25,000gp and actually finding an NPC to do it for you are totally separate equations. It could be that the only place you would find a caster able to do it would be in one of the Major houses and they may not want to jeopardize their monopoly.
Well you would only need a scroll of it so you wouldn't need the caster on hand necessarily, but that is a good point. Might be a bit harder to get in place but once you do it is vastly more usable since anyone who enters is teleported as opposed to needing someone with the Mark to take you. The circle takes teleportation out of Hose Orien hands while the teleport stones keep it in their hands. This would make teleportation circles something that House Orien would not want available in the world unless they strictly controlled it.
House Orien controls the Lightning Rail as well and the cost to lay and protect 2500 miles of conductor stones through some hostile territory and through treacherous terrain would be much higher. Currently House Lyrandar is already supplying transportation for the House Tharashk dragonshard shipments over water using Soarwood skiffs and Wind GalleonsThis item makes both the Lightning Rail and airships completely obsolete. How would creating this item not cause open war between the Great Houses? You're talking about stealing the primary source of income for two of the Great Houses...
Also the stones would be operated by House Orien personnel and one of the PCs is a dragonmarked member of House Orien in good standing. The teleport hub would be franchised from House Orien and provide a share of the income to the House and the Inn would have a small House Orien enclave. For most purposes it would be just another House Orien teleport station, though the PCs would be owners as well.
I just realized that I didn't include the cost of an NPC casting the permanency spell itself...
Also with teleport you can only take so many creatures who can only carry so much so anything too large to teleport would have to take other means of transportation.
No, you don't. Because the portal you are proposing has unlimited uses. Meaning if you can't carry everything via a single port, you just do it again.
With extra dimensional storage items you can increase the capacity a lot, but there still would be some things too big to teleport.
Sure, maybe. But you'd be surprised what people will do if they want to move something. People have transported castles across oceans. They didn't do it by trying to fit the entire castle in a U-haul, they did it by breaking it down into transportable pieces, then rebuilding it again on the other side.
Also the stones would be operated by House Orien personnel and one of the PCs is a dragonmarked member of House Orien in good standing. The teleport hub would be franchised from House Orien and provide a share of the income to the House and the Inn would have a small House Orien enclave. For most purposes it would be just another House Orien teleport station, though the PCs would be owners as well.
Okay, this makes things easier. If the PCs are working out a deal to affiliate with one of the Houses, then they aren't quite as vulnerable. But I still feel like their operation is the start of something that the airship and lightning rail houses are going to want to put a stop to, quick. Teleports here and there are one thing, but a steady, constant portal transporting trade goods from production to retail...that's a dangerous proposition. I can't imagine a scenario in which the two houses don't attempt to level your PCs' new enterprise to the ground.
Then again, that could provide for some great adventures. :)