Little Introduction
I am the sole GM of my group. And also English is not my native language so I am sorry for any mistakes^^".
I love Golarion, well at least most of it. What I didn't liked is the simplified way languages were treated. Here are some thoughts I made about languages in Avistan for my Golarion.
I made language trees which I will show you. To understand a language which is 1 step (this lines ---) away you need a DC 15 check in Linguistic to understand it. Each step further away increases the DC by 5.
For example it is really hard for a wandering Varisian, that doesn't know any Ustlavic, to understand modern Ustlavic. Onestep to Old Wandering Varisian, one step to Old Ustlavic and one final step to modern Ustlavic, is a DC 25 check.
Here is the Language tree for Varisian
Old (Wandering) Varisian (dead/no written language)
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|----->Old Ustlavic(dead)------->Ustlavic+Wood Varisian (Nirmathian)
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|----->Wandering Varisian------->Coastal Varisian
Varisian
At the beginning all Varisians were wanderers. But from – 3708 there was a great problem: The Hold of Belkzen. Another great change came when the Varisians north of Lake Encarthan began to make permanent settlements. They were united by Soividia Ustav and the country of Ustalav was born. With one country and a more or less stable government it is only logic that a new language developes: Old Ustlavic. After some thousand years this language would have farther developed into today’s Ustlavic. Recently with with the war those Varisians south of the Path River needed more symbols to differ from their enemies of Chelix and Molthune. A common language is the way. So came (slowly) the language of Nirmathian into existence. Those Varisians which where still wanderers kept more or less their language. Although there several different dialects Wandering Varisian is a very coherent language.
With the influence of Chelaxian settlers in Varisia and with them the establishment of permanent settlements, especially along the coast, the Wandering Varisian developed farther into the Coastal Varisian you hear from Korvosa over Magnimar to Riddleport.
So it is very hard for a Varisian from Korvosa to understand a Varisian from Caliphas. And while most wandering Varisians understand and speak their host language, for example Ustlavic, it is nearly impossible for a peasant in Ustalav to understand those wanders when they talk in their native tongue. A fact which adds a lot of suspicion and distrust.
Skald
Skald hadn't so much developed into a lot of differnet languages, because it is largly spoken only by the Ulfen of the Linnormkingdoms, which always were in close contact to each other, so while there are many dialects, everyone understands each other. The only exceptions are the Skald of Irrisen, and Issia. The Skald of Irrisen is more or less the Old Skald combined with a little Slavic (yes Slavic, I come to this later). The Skald spoken in Issia hav been separeted from its “homeland” for quite a long time. And the last 200 years the language of the ruling House has been Kellid, which why it had an influence on today’s Issian.
Ancient Skald (dead/no written language)
Old Skald (dead)
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|----->Modern Skald
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|----->Irrisen Skald
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|----->Issian (East Skald)
Hallit
Modern Hallit consitst of two languages Westhallit and Sarkosian(Easthallit). While Easthallit has, like every language that has no central government to regulate it, a lot of different dialects the influence Sarkosis had was enough to make a somewhat standardised way of speaking. 100 years after Sarkosis fall you can still hear this Sarkosian from Mendev over Numeria to the Riverkingdoms. But it is likely, that with the influence of the crusaders in Mendev and their written(!) Taldan there will be changes in the linguistic landscape. The only other Hallit in Golarion is the Westhallit, which is spoken by the Kellidclans west of the Tuskmountains.
Ancient Hallit (dead/no written language)
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v
Old Hallit (dead/no written language)
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|----->Westhallit(no written language)
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|----->Sarkosian (Easthallit)(no written language)
Old Slavic
Yes I know there is nothing written in official Paizostuff about Old Slavic being part of the languages of Golarion. But it is pretty clear that the Baba Yaga in Golarion is the same Baba Yaga as on Earth. That means for me, that the language of her daughters is the language of Baba Yaga. I.e. Old Slav. And why shouldn't the winter witches make Old Slav their official government language? We see that Slavic sounding names are pretty much the fashion. Mind you I don't think that the normal population speaks it. Just the top 1% the Jadwigas and so on.
Taldan
With the spread of Taldors armies came also the spread of its language. On Empire one language. This is why Imperial Taldan is considered the common tongue. This Imperial Taldan is still considered the lingua france although in a very simplified form. Only the burocrats of Taldor still uses Imperial in its pure Form. Another influential offspring is Chelaxian, which is spoken in Cheliax, Isger, Molthune, the Druma, the coast of Varisia, Sargava and Nidal. In Galt there was a movement to get rid of this “foreign” language and after some hot debates and even a few murders the linguists came up with a new old form of Taldan (this is why all Galtans have a heavy french accent in my world^^). The Riverkingdoms speak Imperial, while Rostland developed its own form of it. Taldor itself speaks modern Taldan. This Version is also spoken in Andoran, manly because even under Chelaxian Overlordship it was geographically and economically closer to Taldor than to Cheliax.
Ancient Taldan (dead/no written language)
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v
Old Taldan(dead)
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v
Imperial Taldan
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|----->Chelaxian----->Galtish
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|----->Common (simple Taldan)
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|----->Modern Taldan
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|----->Rostish
So instead of just 4 human languages there are now 15 which I find a lot more logical for a whole continent. And as a bonus effect Linguistic as a skill is more important roleplaywise.
What are your thoughts on this system?
I don't think so, we talk about 1400 years of separation. I know for sure I can't understand dutch, or swiss German. And they are only on their own for less than 500 years.
French and Italian are also from the same languagetree (Romance languages). The Western Roman Empire existed till the 5 cen. A.D.. And today Italian and French are very different languages.
I pretty much agree with your over-all take, I'm mostly disappointed that Osirioni wasn't developed as much in the role of a Regional Common, as much as just a widespread single language. There is simply no distinct human languages presented in it's region, even as co-fluent languages present alongside Osirioni (Berber/Semitic/Kushite/Somali might be obvious candidates for analogues). When Oririon is not a regional Common, but just another single language, the tendency is much more just "let them speak Common (Taldan)". To me that is the larger problem, more than the details of whether one specific language should really be distinct members of a language group rather than nearly 100% intelligible dialects of one language.
For that matter, you don't see Humans ever speaking a non-Human language, or Monster species that wholly speak some regional Human tongue, there is little sense of non-Human languages existing and changing and co-influencing parallel to Human ones. Only exception: Dragon ruled Xa Hoi, although their names (even the Dragons) don't at all match the names of other Dragons who also speak Draconic 8-D. Nagaji is the language of the Nagaji, and is supposedly influenced by their masters, the Naga, but I don't know of any distinct Naga language to do that influencing.
To some extent, they are just simplifying it, and saying that the language groups are close enough that speakers of the same language group are intelligible... You don't want to push real-world comparisons too far in a fantasy world with long-distance magical communication and magical or magically enhanced travel (not to mention both long-lived races and magical life extension and undead). I do think they would be benefitted by moving more in the direction you sketch out, even if they can't go 100%, making Linguistics checks more relevant while making it easier to pick out some of the content from related languages. Making it do-able to achieve at least partial comprehension addresses the reason why Paizo simplified the languages as much as they did, to allow communication, but it also retains more nuanced regional character, because you will know when you are communicating with somebody who's language you're not quite fluent in, even if you can get by.
I think Taldan/Chelaxian would do good to be distinct languages, perhaps with Imperial Taldan being used by the high muckety-mucks and scholars of both regions, and perhaps with the formal written form being even nearly identical, vs. the spoken form (which would still be very close, even regular people should be able to pick a good amount out of conversation with average Linguistics check). I also wish universal literacy (even for Barbarians!) wasn't quite the case, and written form was dealt with discretely from spoken... hints about that are even given re: Dwarven/Giant, but it's never really played upon or given real relevance.
Skald seems also related to Dwarven as well as Giant (at least written form, which could be a factor in written Linguistics checks). I would even look at the eastern Sea of Mists and Veils/Shining Sea Dwarves of Zavaten Gura as being more closely related and co-influenced with the Ulfen-Kellid Iobarian Humans of the area, vs. Dwarves still present in the Linnorn Kingdoms, and Dwarves of the 5 King Mountains, and further afield (Osirion, Mwangi). Though like I said, long racial lifetimes could very likely reduce linguistic drift.
re: 'Slavic', I don't know if it can be wholly attributed to Golarion-Earth ties via Irrissen and Baba Yaga, many many residents of Brevoy and Iobaria and the River Kingdoms also have such names, and indeed one of the great warlords of Sarkoris has a Polish name as well. Perhaps this somehow relates to further dealings of Baba Yaga, but the general background of this area also exactly matches the origins of the state of Rus, namely mixture of vikings, early balts/slavs, finno-ugric and other tribes... Which plausibly exactly corresponds to the cultural mixture of Kellids and Ulfen (and Taldans to a minor extent), all on their own... And in fact the canon even specifically refers to "Iobarians" outside of Iobaria proper, i.e. Brevoy and Mendev, so that grouping is clearly present even though it officially includes Ulfens and Kellids. It's been proposed that the base Kellid may be the analogue of some proto-Indo-European or some such. So independent of Baba Yaga, the basis for a developing Slavic tongue is already there. It does seem that the Lake of Mists and Veils region is at minimum a new language-culture in formation, I'm hoping that something in that vein of things is reflected in future Paizo products.
I'm not really knowledgeable about the Nirmathan Varisian thing to begin with, so any classification of that I can't really affirm, but I might be inclined to just give them a dialect of Ustalavic or Wandering Varisian.
For Kellid, I think one could also address the Kellid population within the more southerly Taldan states, this is characterized as an underclass, and they have likely already fully assimilated for the most part, but where and when they do retain Kellid language, it's likely to have a distinct character, and not just Taldan word borrowing, this would likely have already had a distinct character as 'Southern Kellid' even before any Taldan assimilation or influence.
The thing is with more languages, you will have more regional 'Commons'.
So by knowing those still relatively limited regional 'Commons', you can still communicate fairly well.
With 'related' languages using Linguistics checks which allow for partial but not 100% communication,
you can still "get by" with many who don't share exact languages, you just feel some difference.
The difference is it allows for a richer, and more plausible, depth of cultures.
That in itself is problematic because Paizo can't actually detail anything like the full range of Earth cultures,
but there's so much room between that and the very basic level layed out for Golarion so far, that minor improvements are very possible.
And as I wrote, there is exactly the underpinnings of a distinct Kellid-related "Iobarian" already in the canon itself.
It's also a game where spells like Tongues exist, and learning new languages is ridiculously easy.
@ Quandary
Thanks for your thoughts^^. I am glad to see that my way of thinking isn't totally abnormal. I haven't made my opinion about Garund. But I like your take on Orsiani.
I also thoughed off Imperial Taldan as a bureaucratic language of Taldor and a scholars language. But after reading the Vigil entry in Cities off Golarion, I think that Imperial Taldan is still very common in Lastwall.
Yeah the thought about Nirmathian was born first of the fact that Nirmathas was setteld by ethnical Varisians (The map in Humans of Golarion). End second that the threat from Molthune could trigger a Nirmathian identity complte with it'S own language.
I have made also some thoughts on the slavic names in Brevoy and so on. Again I think they came together with Baba Yaga into this world. But why should they take slavic Names from a witchreal some hundreds of kilometers away?
The answer I came up is fassion. I know at first it might seem ridiculous. But suddenlly there is a total different and exotic new culture. So why when in our world names from different and far away cultures became popular why not also in Golarion? I mean for exapmle Alexander is Greek, Jasmin is Turkish and they are very common in northern Europe (and have been since ages).
@ Jeven
You are right but there is a veryx important factor you are missing. The Quran. It is THE holy book and it is written in Arabic. In former times the way to get education and to lrean to write was in a Quranschool. That is the reason why you can travall the whole islamic world and come through by speaking only onw language. You don't have something like that in Golarion.
@Chris Kenney
I think it greatly depends on the group of players. My players simply love it, beacause it gives them the feel of a living world. And a certain sense of wonder if they come to a new land and they don't understand a word. Or only can communicate with Common Taldan witch has 3000 words (Like the common English which is spoken through our world).
And just by comparison. Our world has something of about 6000 to 7000 languages ;)