How's This? I think this fits better, and is directly adapted from the bard's Lore MAster ability.
Skullduggery (Ex): At 5th level, an adept scoundrel becomes a master of deception and underhandedness and can take 10 on any Bluff, Disguise, Diplomacy, Escape Artist, Intimidate, Sense Motive, and Sleight of Hand skill checks that she has ranks in, even if she can’t normally take 10. An adept scoundrel can choose not to take 10 and can instead roll normally. In addition, once per day, the adept scoundrel can take 20 on any one of these skill checks as a standard action. She can use this ability one additional time per day for every six levels he possesses beyond 5th, to a maximum of three times per day at 17th level.
#Adept scoundrel
I had a thought about skullduggery as well what if we added umd, paired them off(umd with disable device, bluff with disguise, sleight with escape artist), and did something similar to how favored enemy works with scaling. One could select a pair and start at +2, and later on select an additional pair for another +2and increase one of the their selections to +4 and so on.#Twisted Binder that does work alot better but my earlier concern is still valid. Should we allow creatures with an elemental weakness to pick up a corresponding immunity through evolutions?
I missed your post while posting mine Toaster.
#Adept Scoundrel
I think the new version I posted should be good, as it is a rework of the bard's Lore Master, and is replacing three levels of rougue benefits, just as it provides 3 levels of bard benefits. Then there are also no terrains or such related to it.
Your option would also work, but thought I'd go with something tied to one of the MCAs classes instead of introducing another class mechanic.
#Twisted Pact Witch
We can just add in a caveat that "Evolutions that negate a creatures racial weaknesses may not eb chosen."
That works for me
#Twisted Pact Witch
Now, although I don't like the Out-Worlder hex, I'm not the boss. What does everyone else think, specifically Toaster since it's his MCA. I would rather see it abe a feat vs. a hex, but that's just me.
#Adept Scoundrel
That version skullduggery works fairly well, I'm happy with it.
#Twisted Pact Witch
In my opinion, there's little difference between Out-Worlder being a hex or a feat (if it's a hex, you can always grab it with the Extra Hex feat).
Then it comes down to whether we want it as a hex or not.
it was made after a feat and made for a talking point so i don't mind if its saved for a "feats, blood lines and other stuff of MCA"
OK. Then we're awaiting Toaster's thumbs up on the MCA and then we can move to the next one I think.
Are we done with the Adept Scoundrel as well? If so, what's next in the review pile?
#Adept Scoundrel
I'd like abit more feedback from some of the other constant posters, like Kyras, OSW, Toaster, Iorthol (where ever he's gone), or any of the new posters that feel so inclined, and the MCP members before we move from it. Does anyone else see anything unbalanced or OP?
AS to the next new MCA, Browman you'll be up next once we get the go ahead from Toaster. Here's the next few in the cue.
Silent Hunter – Rgr/Nnj (Browman)
Dimensional Samurai - Sam/Wiz (Alfray/Iorthol)
Eldritch Cataphract – Cav/Mag (Lastexile0)
Here's what the proposed final version of the Twisted Pact Witch. Wondering if Summon Monster should be Int based or Cha based? Should we make it a bit MAD or not?
Witches of the twisted pact choose to draw their power from an outsider instead of their normal patron source, in a ritual resembling the one a summoner uses to form his bond. Such bonds always shift and mutate the familiar however, so many cease being recognizable from the creature they once were.
Primary Class: Witch.
Secondary Class: Summoner.
Alignment: Any.
Hit Dice: d6.
Bonus Skills and Ranks: The twisted pact witch may select three summoner skills to add to her class skills in addition to the normal witch class skills. The twisted pact witch gains a number of ranks at each level equal to 2 + Int modifier.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The twisted pact witch is proficient with all simple weapons. They are not proficient with any type of armor or shield. Armor interferes with a witch’s gestures, which can cause her spells with somatic components to fail.
Diminished Spellcasting: The twiste pact witch casts arcane spells drawn from the witch spell list, and gains one fewer spell of each spell level per day. She also gains bonus spells for a high Intelligence score. She otherwise learns, prepares, and casts spells as a witch of equal level.
Bound Familiar: At 1st level, a twisted pact witch gains Evolved Familiar as a bonus feat. At 3rd level, she gains Improved Familiar as a bonus feat, at which time she must choose an outsider as her familiar, but she ignores any alignment prerequisites for that outsider. Outsiders bound in this way change their alignment to match that of the twisted pact witch and lose any alignment subtypes they may have. This ability replaces the witches first level hex.
Summon Monster I (Sp): At 1s level, a twisted pact witch gains the summoner’s summon monster I ability, except that it can be used a number of times per day equal to 3 + her Intelligence modifier. In addition, the power of the summon monster ability increases by 1 spell level at the levels indicated on Table: Twisted Pact Witch, to a maximum of summon monster VII at 19th level. This ability replaces spells lost due to diminished spellcasting.
Witch’s Familiar: This is exactly like the witch’s ability of the same name, except for the following changes.
Share Spells and Hexes: The twisted pact witch may cast a spell with a target of “You” on her familiar (as a touch spell) instead of on herself. A twisted pact witch may cast spells on her familiar even if the spells do not normally affect creatures of the familiar's type (magical beast). In addition, whenever the twisted pact witch is affected by a hex that targets herself, her familiar also gains the effects. This otherwise functions as and replaces the familiar’s share spells ability.
Twisted Link (Su): The twisted pact witch has an empathic link with her familiar to a 1 mile distance. The twisted pact witch can communicate empathically with the familiar, but cannot see through its eyes. Because of the link's limited nature, only general emotions can be shared. The master has the same connection to an item or place that his familiar does. Whenever the familiar takes enough damage to reduce it to 0 hit points of lower, the twisted pact witch can sacrifice any number of hit points. Each hit point sacrificed in this way prevents 1 point of damage done to the familiar. This can prevent the familiar from becoming unconscious or dying.
In addition, the familiar must remain within 100 feet of the twisted pact witch one another for the familiar to remain at full strength. If the familiar is beyond 100 feet but closer than 1,000 feet, its current and maximum hit point totals are reduced by 50%. If the familiar is more than 1,000 feet away but closer than 10,000 feet, its current and maximum hit point totals are reduced by 75%. If the familiar is more than 10,000 feet away, it immediately becomes unconscious. Current hit points lost in this way are not restored when the familiar gets closer to its twisted pact witch, but its maximum hit point total does return to normal. This ability otherwise functions as and replaces the familiar’s empathic link ability.
Evolving Bond: Starting at 2nd level, the inherent corruption within a twisted pact witch’s familiar begins to grow, intensifying the bond between them. At 2nd level and every two levels thereafter, a twisted pact witch’s familiar gains 1 additional evolution point that is added to its total. However, the familiar is restricted to 1-point evolutions. At 10th level, the familiar can select 2-point evolutions. This ability otherwise functions as the Eidolons evolution pool, and replaces the witch’s patron.
Hex: This is exactly like the witch’s ability of the same name, except that the twisted pact witch may select the new Twisted Face hex, and complements the Twisted Pact Witch multiclass archetype.
Twisted Face (Su): The witch can warp her face and cause any creature within 30 feet to suffer from blinding fear for 1 round by twisting the creature’s face. The target becomes frightened and flees from the source of its fear as best it can. A Will save negates this hex. The duration of this hex increase to 2 rounds at 8th level, and 3 rounds at 16th level. Whether or not the save is successful, a creature cannot be the target of this hex again for 24 hours.
Twisted Summoning (Su): Starting at 6th level, whenever a twisted pact witch casts the summon monster spells or uses the summoning hex, her monsters gain a 1-point evolution of her choice until the end of the summoning. At 12th level, her summoned monsters gain a number of evolutions totaling 2 evolution points. At 18th level, her summoned monsters can gain a number of evolutions totaling 3 evolution points. Evolutions that negate racial weaknesses may not be chosen. This ability replaces the hex gained at 6th level.
Life Bond (Su): At 14th level, a twisted pact witch life becomes linked to his familiar’s. As long as the familiar has 1 or more hit points, the twisted pact witch is protected from harm. Damage in excess of that which would reduce the twisted pact witch to fewer than 0 hit points is instead transferred to the familiar. This damage is transferred 1 point at a time, meaning that as soon as the familiar is reduced to a number of negative hit points equal to its Constitution score, all excess damage remains with the twisted pact witch.
Effects that cause death but not damage are unaffected by this ability. This ability does not affect spells like baleful polymorph, flesh to stone, or imprisonment, or other spells that do not cause actual damage. This ability replaces the hex gained at 14th level.
Grand Hex: This is exactly like the witch’s ability of the same name, except that the twisted pact witch may select the new Warped Summoner grand hex that is restricted to the Twisted Pact Witch multiclass archetype, or the Twisted Face hex.
Warped Summoner (Sp): The twisted pact witch becomes a master at summoning gruesome creatures from other planes. Creatures summoned by casting a summon monster spell or using her summon monster ability gains a number of evolutions totaling 4 evolution points. She can chose from any 1- or 2-point evolutions listed in the Evolutions section of the Summoner's Eidolon description. As before, evolutions that negate racial weaknesses may not be chosen.
In addition, once her summon monster ability increase to summon monster VII, the twisted pact witch can expend two uses of the ability to increase the power of the ability by one level to summon monster VIII, or four uses to increase it to summon monster IX.
Table: Twisted Pact Witch
Base
Class Attack Fort Ref Will Spells per Day
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special 0 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th
1st +0 +0 +0 +2 Bound familiar, cantrips, summon monster I, 2 0 — — — — — — — —
witch’s familiar
2nd +1 +0 +0 +3 Evolving bond, hex 3 1 — — — — — — — —
3rd +1 +1 +1 +3 Summon monster II 3 1 0 — — — — — — —
4th +2 +1 +1 +4 Hex 3 2 1 — — — — — — —
5th +2 +1 +1 +4 3 2 1 0 — — — — — —
6th +3 +2 +2 +5 Twisted summoning 3 2 2 1 — — — — — —
7th +3 +2 +2 +5 Summon monster III 3 3 2 1 0 — — — — —
8th +4 +2 +2 +6 Hex 3 3 2 2 1 — — — — —
9th +4 +3 +3 +6 Summon monster IV 3 3 3 2 1 0 — — — —
10th +5 +3 +3 +7 Hex, major hex 3 3 3 2 2 1 — — — —
11th +5 +3 +3 +7 3 3 3 3 2 1 0 — — —
12th +6/+1 +4 +4 +8 Hex 3 3 3 3 2 2 1 — — —
13th +6/+1 +4 +4 +8 Summon monster V 3 3 3 3 3 2 1 0 — —
14th +7/+2 +4 +4 +9 Life bond 3 3 3 3 3 2 2 1 — —
15th +7/+2 +5 +5 +9 Summon monster VI 3 3 3 3 3 3 2 1 0 —
16th +8/+3 +5 +5 +10 Hex 3 3 3 3 3 3 2 2 1 —
17th +8/+3 +5 +5 +10 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 2 1 0
18th +9/+4 +6 +6 +11 Hex, grand hex 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 2 2 1
19th +9/+4 +6 +6 +11 Summon monster VII 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 2 2
20th +10/+5 +6 +6 +12 Hex 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3
I can have the silent hunter up by the end of the night.
If there's nothing else from Toaster, I think you can post it up tonight Browman.
There's been a fair bit of touch-up work. What's the current incarnation of the Adept Scoundrel look like?
This is toaster, signing off.
#Adept Scoundrel
I think I prefer the mechanic and pairings Toaster posited - for some reason, though I would add the Intimidate and Diplomacy pair - then you have grester choice and some concrete bonuses.
The taking 10 when not normally able to at level 5 concerns me, regardless of whether it has been created already. Maybe that could come later in the progression.
#Twisted Pact Witch
I really like this MCA concept, and I love the share beneficial hex with familiar idea.
* Twisted Summoning was ok before summon monster SLA became so numerous - it necessarily buffs all summons with an evolution, which the T-PW now gets 3+Int mod/day. That could be a lot of evolved minions if you use summon monster II or greater. I guess my feeling is that the synergy of the two together (summon monster SLA + Twisted Summoning) makes the swap of diminished spellcasting for summon monster SLA an unequal one. I think more needs to be traded for it. Or nerf the synergy somehow.
I know I was saying the T-PW's summoning was nerfed before. Now I'm saying the above mentioned synergy is OP. Thoughts?
How a bout 1/2 int mod per day.
#Silent Hunter
Primary Class: Ranger
Secondary Class: ninja
Alignment: Any
Hit Dice: d10
full BAB, Good Fort and Ref
Skills: The Silent Hunter adds 3 ninja skills to his list of ranger skills. He gains 6+Int modifier ranks each level.
Weapon and armour proficiency: A Silent Hunter is proficient with all simple and martial weapons and one exotic eastern weapon, light armour and light shields.
Poison Use: at level 1 a silent hunter gains poison use. replaces wild empathy
Poison Mastery: at level 3 a silent hunter can spend 1hr to increase the DC by 1 of a number of doses of poison equal to ½ his level, he gains an additional +1 every 4 additional levels for a total of +5 at lvl 19. Replaces endurance and woodland stride.
Ki Pool: gained at level 3 a silent hunter’s ki pool functions exactly like a ninja’s ki pool except that he can also use a ki point to deal 1d6 sneak attack damage for each 4 levels of silent hunter he has and the Ki pool provides no bonus to acrobatics. Replaces Hunter’s bond
Ninja tricks: a silent hunter gains ninja tricks at 4th, 8th, 13th levels. Replaces favoured terrain 1, 2, 3.
Spells: a silent hunter gains spells as a ranger of equal level.
Master trick: at 18th level a silent hunter may select one master ninja trick. This replaces favoured terrain 4.
Lvl Bab Fort Ref Will Special
1 1 2 2 0 Favoured En 1, track, poison use
2 2 3 3 1 combat style feat
3 3 3 3 1 poison mastery +1, Ki Pool
4 4 4 4 1 Ninja Trick, Ranger spells
5 5 4 4 1 Favoured En 2
6 6 5 5 2 combat style feat
7 7 5 5 2 poison mastery +2
8 8 6 6 2 swift tracker, ninja trick
9 9 6 6 3 evasion
10 10 7 7 3 favoured en 3, combat style feat
11 11 7 7 3 Quarry, poison mastery +3
12 12 8 8 4 Camouflage
13 13 8 8 4 ninja trick
14 14 9 9 4 combat style feat
15 15 9 9 5 favoured en 4, poison mastery +4
16 16 10 10 5 Improved evasion
17 17 10 10 5 Hide in plain sight
18 18 11 11 6 master ninja trick, combat style feat
19 19 11 11 6 Improved Quarry, poison mastery +5
20 20 12 12 6 favoured en 5, master hunter
@Adept Scoundrel:
May be a bit late, but when I was making the adept scoundrel, I envisioned that the bonus from skulduggery would replace the bonus from trap finding. In essence, you can disable traps as per normal, but there is no perception bonus to find them, and skulduggery supersedes (does not stack with) the bonus gained to disable traps.
At least that was my intention. I like what EL did with it.
Clever opportunist: just a thought... But how about free imp feint at lvl 4, and at lvl 8 the A.S. is considered flanking a target if her opponent is threatened by an ally? Less SA, but a bit more reliable (which fits the theme). Thoughts?
# Adept Scoundrel
@Byrdology: Nice to see you here Byrd. I'm happy to go with what Elghinn posted.
#Adept Scoundrel
Re Skullduggery: Something to note, the bard's Lore Mastery allows him to take 10 with any Knowldge skill he has ranks in (bards can choose any Knowledge skill, there's 10 of them), while skullduggery includes only 6 skills, but they are thematically tied to deception. So, the bard can take 10 with more skills than Skullduggery does.
#Twisted Pact Witch
Why don't we go with this. Restricts the uses per day, instead of giving it every time the summon monster spells/SLA is used.
Twisted Summoning (Su): Starting at 6th level, whenever a twisted pact witch casts the summon monster spells or uses the summoning hex, her monsters gain a 1-point evolution of her choice until the end of the summoning. At 12th level, her summoned monsters gain up to two 1-point evolutions until the end of the summoning. At 18th level, her summoned monsters gain three 1-point evolutions. If multiple creatures are summoned, the twisted pact witch must divide the evolutions among her summoned monsters. If only one creature is summoned, the single creature gains all the evolutions. Evolutions that negate racial weaknesses may not be chosen. Twisting summoning can be used once per day at 6th level, and an additional time per day every six levels thereafter. This ability replaces the hex gained at 6th level.
Here's the current incarnation of Adept SCoundrel.
Primary: Rogue.
Secondary: Bard.
Alignment: Any.
Hit Dice: d8.
Bonus Skills and Ranks: The adept scoundrel selects three bard skills to add to her class skills in addition to the normal rogue class skills. The adept scoundrel gains a number of ranks at each level equal to 6 + Int modifier.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The adept scoundrel is proficient with all simple weapons, plus the hand crossbow, rapier, sap, shortbow, short sword, and whip. An adept scoundrel is proficient with light armor, and with shields (except tower shields).
Bardic Performance: At 2nd level, an adept scoundrel gains the bardic performance ability, and the following performances. This ability replaces evasion.
Influence: At 2nd level, an adept scoundrel can use her performance to inspire courage in his allies (including himself), bolstering them against fear and improving their combat abilities. To be affected, an ally must be able to perceive the adept scoundrel’s performance. An affected ally receives a +1 morale bonus on saving throws against charm and fear effects and a +1 competence bonus on attack and weapon damage rolls. At 6th level, and every six adept scoundrel levels thereafter, this bonus increases by +1, to a maximum of +4 at 18th level.
Alternatively, an adept scoundrel can use her performance to demoralize enemies. Each enemy must make a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 the scoundrel’s level + the adept scoundrel’s Charisma modifier) or become shaken for the duration of the performance, plus an additional number of rounds equal to 1/2 the adept scoundrel’s level once it has ended. Using this effect on the same creature only extends the duration and does not create a stronger fear condition. To be affected, an enemy must be within 30 feet and be able to perceive the adept scoundrel’s performance
Influence can use audible or visual components. The adept scoundrel must choose which component to use and what effect to create when starting her performance. This performance replaces the rouge talent gained at 2nd level.
Inspire Competence (Su): At 3rd level, an adept scoundrel gains the inspire competence bardic performance. This performance replaces trap sense.
Dirge of Doom (Su): At 8th level, an adept scoundrel gains the dirge of doom bardic performance. This performance replaces the rouge talent gained at 8th level.
Frightening Tune (Sp): At 14th level, an adept scoundrel gains the frightening tune bardic performance. This performance replaces the rouge talent gained at 14th level.
Brilliant Performance: At 20th level, an adept scoundrel can use her performance to grant a number of allies with 30 feet equal to her Charisma modifier extraordinary inspiration. As long as the performance is maintained, whenever an ally makes an attack roll, ability check, or skill check, he rolls two d20s and takes the better result. Brilliant performance is a mind-effecting effect that relies on audible and visual components. This performance replaces the rogue talent gained at 20th level.
Clever Opportunist (Ex): At 4th level, whenever an adept scoundrel is flanking an opponent, she can choose to gain a +2 flanking bonus on damage rolls against the opponent, or a +2 flanking bonus to her Armor Class against attacks made by the opponent, instead of the normal flanking bonus. Any ally participating in the flanking action also gains this bonus. This ability replaces uncanny dodge.
Rogue Talents: This ability is exactly like the rogue ability of the same name, except that the adept scoundrel gains a rogue talent at 4th, 6th, 10th, 12th, 16th, and 18th level.
Skullduggery (Ex): At 5th level, an adept scoundrel becomes a master of deception and underhandedness and can take 10 on any Bluff, Disguise, Diplomacy, Escape Artist, Intimidate, Sense Motive, and Sleight of Hand skill checks that she has ranks in. An adept scoundrel can choose not to take 10 and can instead roll normally. In addition, once per day, the adept scoundrel can take 20 on any one of these skill checks as a standard action. She can use this ability one additional time per day for every six levels he possesses beyond 5th, to a maximum of three times per day at 17th level. This ability replaces sneak attack +3d6, +6d6, and +9d6.
Improved Clever Opportunist (Ex): At 8th level, an adept scoundrel gains the flanking bonus granted by her clever opportunist ability when an opponent is threatened by an ally. An ally gains this bonus only when an adept scoundrel and the ally are flanking an opponent as normal. This ability replaces improved uncanny dodge.
Advanced Talents: This is exactly like the rogue ability of the same name, except that an adept scoundrel adds the following rogue abilities to the list of advanced talents she may select: Evasion, Uncanny Dodge, and Improved Uncanny Dodge. An adept scoundrel must select uncanny dodge before selecting improved uncanny dodge. In the case of the Improved Evasion talent, the adept scoundrel must have evasion to select it.
Table: Adept Scoundrel
Base
Class Attack Fort Ref Will
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special
1st +0 +0 +2 +0 Sneak attack +1d6, trapfinding
2nd +1 +0 +3 +0 Bardic performance, influence +1
3rd +2 +1 +3 +1 Sneak attack +2d6, inspire competence +2
4th +3 +1 +4 +1 Clever opportunist, rogue talent
5th +3 +1 +4 +1 Skullduggery 1/day
6th +4 +2 +5 +2 Influence +2, rogue talent
7th +5 +2 +5 +2 Sneak attack +3d6, inspire competence +3
8th +6/+1 +2 +6 +2 Dirge of doom, improved clever opportunist
9th +6/+1 +3 +6 +3 Sneak attack +4d6
10th +7/+2 +3 +7 +3 Advanced talents, rogue talent
11th +8/+3 +3 +7 +3 Inspire competence +4, skullduggery 2/day
12th +9/+4 +4 +8 +4 Influence +3, rogue talent
13th +9/+4 +4 +8 +4 Sneak attack +5d6
14th +10/+5 +4 +9 +4 Frightening tune
15th +11/+6/+1 +5 +9 +5 Sneak attack +6d6, inspire competence +5
16th +12/+7/+2 +5 +10 +5 Rogue talent
17th +12/+7/+2 +5 +10 +5 Skullduggery 3/day
18th +13/+8/+3 +6 +11 +6 Influence +4, rogue talent
19th +14/+9/+4 +6 +11 +6 Sneak attack +7d6, inspire competence +6
20th +15/+10/+5 +6 +12 +6 Brilliant performance, master strike
#Twisted Pact Witch
@ Change to Twisted Summoning:
Hmm. I feel like I'm just being a pain now. This doesn't quite work for me either. ;p
I had thought about dividing the evolutions, and that seems wisest - perhaps that was the initial intention - it's good now that if you do want to divide them it is written explicitly. But I don't think you need to divide the evolutions AND make it have it's own uses/day.
My vote - make it constant, but divide the evolutions. Or go with Toaster's 3+ 1/2 int modifier for the SLA...
We'll go with divide evolutions among summoned monsters and keep it constant. Alright, onto Browman's Silent Hunter.
I think we'll also move on to the next wiki MCA.
Arcane fists are specialized magi who eschew manufactured arms and armor in favor of getting up and close and personal with their enemies—and then darting away, unscathed. Their bodies are their weapons and armor, and magic flows through them.
Primary Class: Magus.
Secondary Class: Monk.
Alignment: Any lawful.
Hit Dice: d8.
Bonus Skills and Ranks: Arcane fists may select three monk skills to add to his class skills in addition to the normal magus class skills. The arcane fist gains a number of ranks at each level equal to 2 + Int modifier.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Arcane fists are proficient with the brass knuckles*, cestus*, club, crossbow (light or heavy), dagger, handaxe, javelin, kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, shortspear, short sword, shuriken, siangham, sling, spear, and temple sword*. Arcane fists are not proficient with any armor or shields. Like any other arcane spellcaster, an arcane fist wearing armor or a shield incurs a chance of arcane spell failure if the spell in question has a somatic component. In addition, when wearing armor, using a shield, or carrying a medium or heavy load, an arcane fist loses his AC bonus, as well as his fast movement. (*Advanced Player’s Guide)
Diminished Spellcasting: The arcane fist gains one fewer spell of each level than normal. If this reduces the number to 0, he may cast spells of that level only if his Intelligence allows bonus spells of that level. He otherwise learns, prepares, and casts spells as a magus of equal level.
Martial Sage: All magus abilities dependent upon Intelligence instead depend upon Wisdom. This includes his spells per day, spell DCs, arcane pool size, etc. In addition, the arcane fist can prepare one fewer spell per spell level per day, and gains only 1 free spell in his spellbook at each level after first instead of 2. He can still add spells to his spellbook as normal. The arcane fist is treated as a monk for the purposes of determining the effects and uses per day of feats like Stunning Fist.
AC Bonus (Ex): When unarmored and unencumbered, the arcane fist adds his Wisdom bonus (if any) to his AC and his CMD. In addition, a arcane fist gains a +1 bonus to AC and CMD at 4th level. This bonus increases by 1 for every four arcane fist levels thereafter, up to a maximum of +5 at 20th level.
These bonuses to AC apply even against touch attacks or when the arcane fist is flat-footed. He loses these bonuses when he is immobilized or helpless, when he wears any armor, when he carries a shield, or when he carries a medium or heavy load.
Unarmed Strike: At 1st level, an arcane fist gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat. There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for an arcane fist striking unarmed. An arcane fist may thus apply his full Strength bonus on damage rolls for all his unarmed strikes.
Usually an arcane fist’s unarmed strikes deal lethal damage, but he can choose to deal nonlethal damage instead with no penalty on his attack roll. He has the same choice to deal lethal or nonlethal damage while grappling.
An arcane fist’s unarmed strike is treated as both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons. An arcane fist also deals more damage with his unarmed strikes than a normal person would, with his damage scaling as he levels up, as shown on the table below.
Spellfist (Su): At 2nd level, whenever an arcane fist casts a spell with a range of "touch" from the magus spell list, he can deliver the spell through his fist as part of a melee attack. Instead of a free melee touch attack normally allowed to deliver the spell, the arcane fist can make a free melee attack with his fist (with base attack equal to his arcane fist level) as part of casting this spell. If successful, this melee attack deals its normal damage as well as the effects of the spell. If the arcane fist makes this attack in concert with spellcombat, this melee attack takes all the penalties accrued by spell combat melee attacks. This ability replaces spellstrike.
Fast Movement (Ex): At 3rd level, an arcane fist gains a +10 foot enhancement bonus to his land speed. This bonus increases by +10 at 6th level, and every third level thereafter. An arcane fist in armor or carrying a medium or heavy load loses this extra speed.
Arcane Ki (Su): At 4th level, the arcane fist treats his arcane pool as a ki pool, and can spend points from it to activate any ki power he knows. He can still use it for everything for which he could use his arcane pool. If the arcane fist possesses levels in another class that grants points to a ki or arcane pool, arcane fist levels stack with the levels of that class to determine the total number of "arcane ki" points in the combined pool, but only one ability score modifier is added to the total. The choice of which score to use is made when the second class ability is gained, and once made, the choice is set. The arcane fist can use "arcane ki" points from this pool to power the abilities of every class he possesses that grants a ki or arcane pool.
As long as the arcane fist has at least 1 point in his arcane ki pool, he can make a ki strike, as a monk. At 4th level, his ki strikes are magic weapons. At 10th level, his ki strikes are lawful weapons. At 16th level, his ki strikes are adamantine weapons. By spending 1 point from his arcane ki pool, an arcane fist can increase his speed by 20 feet for a round or give himself a +4 dodge bonus to AC for 1 round. This is a swift action.
Bonus Feat: As normal for a magus, except that at 5th level, the arcane fist adds the 1st-level monk bonus feat list, along with Stunning Fist, to his options. At 11th level, the arcane fist adds the 6th-level monk bonus feat list to his options. At 17th level, the arcane fist adds the 10th-level monk bonus feat list to his options. He need not meet the prerequisites for any of these feats to select them.
High Jump (Ex): At 5th level, the arcane fist receives high jump, which functions exactly like the monk ability of the same name. This ability replaces knowledge pool.
Ki Power (Su): At 6th level, an arcane fist may select a ki power from the 4th–level list of qingong monk ki powers (see Ultimate Magic) in place of a magus arcana. He may select additional ki powers from each subsequent list or those of a lower level each time he gains a magus arcana. Thus, at 9th level, he may select a ki power from the 6th–level list or lower, the 8th–level list or lower at 12th level, the 10th-level list or lower at 15th level, and the 12th-level list or lower at 18th level. Ki powers selected in this manner use the arcane fist's level to determine their effects.
Purity of Body (Ex): At 7th level, the arcane fist receives purity of body, which functions exactly like the monk ability of the same name. This ability replaces medium armor.
Sudden Spellfist (Ex): At 10th level, the arcane fist may combine his spellfist ability with a charge or spring attack action. He may not use spellfist when charging if he does not have a full-round action to use on his charge. This ability replaces fighter training.
Diamond Body (Ex): At 11th level, the arcane fist receives diamond body, which functions exactly like the monk ability of the same name. This ability replaces improved spell recall.
Deadly Spellfist (Su): At 13th level, whenever an arcane fist strikes an opponent with his spellfist, he can choose for the spell to deal damage as if it were modified by the Maximize Spell feat a number of times per day equal to his Wisdom modifier. This does not increase the casting time or the level of the spell. This ability replaces heavy armor.
Timeless Body (Ex): At 19th level, the arcane fist receives timeless body, which functions exactly like the monk ability of the same name. This ability replaces greater spell access.
Magus Arcana: The following magus arcana complement the arcane fist multiclass archetype: arcane accuracy*, close range*, critical strike*, hasted assault*, maneuver mastery*, pool strike*, reflection*, and spell shield*. (*Ultimate Magic)
Table: Arcane Fist
Base
Class Attack Fort Ref Will Unarm. AC Fast Spells per Day
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special Dmg* Bonus Mov. 0 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th
1st +0 +2 +0 +2 Arcane pool, cantrips, 1d4 +0 +0 ft. 2 0 — — — — —
diminished casting,
martial sage, spell combat
2nd +1 +3 +0 +3 Spellfist 1d4 +0 +0 ft. 3 1 — — — — —
3rd +2 +3 +1 +3 Fast movement, 1d4 +0 +10 ft. 3 2 — — — — —
magus arcana
4th +3 +4 +1 +4 Arcane ki (magic) 1d6 +1 +10 ft. 3 2 0 — — — —
5th +3 +4 +1 +4 Bonus feat (monk), 1d6 +1 +10 ft. 3 3 1 — — — —
high jump
6th +4 +5 +2 +5 Magus arcana, ki power 1d6 +1 +20 ft. 4 3 2 — — — —
7th +5 +5 +2 +5 Purity of body 1d6 +1 +20 ft. 4 3 2 0 — — —
8th +6/+1 +6 +2 +6 Improved spell combat 1d8 +2 +20 ft. 4 3 3 1 — — —
9th +6/+1 +6 +3 +6 Magus arcana 1d8 +2 +30 ft. 4 4 3 2 — — —
10th +7/+2 +7 +3 +7 Arcane ki (lawful), 1d8 +2 +30 ft. 4 4 3 2 0 — —
sudden spellfist
11th +8/+3 +7 +3 +7 Bonus feat (monk) 1d8 +2 +30 ft. 4 4 3 3 1 — —
12th +9/+4 +8 +4 +8 Magus arcana 1d10 +3 +40 ft. 4 4 4 3 2 — —
13th +9/+4 +8 +4 +8 Deadly spellfist 1d10 +3 +40 ft. 4 4 4 3 2 0 —
14th +10/+5 +9 +4 +9 Greater spell combat 1d10 +3 +40 ft. 4 4 4 3 3 1 —
15th +11/+6/+1 +9 +5 +9 Magus arcana 1d10 +3 +50 ft. 4 4 4 4 3 2 —
16th +12/+6/+2 +10 +5 +10 Arcane ki (adamantine), 2d6 +4 +50 ft. 4 4 4 4 3 2 0
counterstrike
17th +12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 Bonus feat (monk) 2d6 +4 +50 ft. 4 4 4 4 4 4 4
18th +13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +11 Magus arcana 2d6 +4 +60 ft. 4 4 4 4 4 3 2
19th +14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +11 Timeless body 2d6 +4 +60 ft. 4 4 4 4 4 4 3
20th +15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +12 True magus 2d8 +5 +60 ft. 4 4 4 4 4 4 4
#Arcane Fist
i am not sure why this one * unless we just need to play test it but for the most part it looks good to go. In fact it fixes what i thought was wrong with the magus (never like that they could not punch magic into people) i would have the poor guy be all INT based or WIS based but i not going to cry over it. balance, flavor, and wright up look good to me so unless some point something out
(all so sorry about not getting on new work out is kicking my butt)
#Arcane Fist
Spellfist should include text saying the attack is an unarmed strike (as I'm assuming that's the intent) or just let him make an unarmed strike to deliver the spell - I can't see a problem with kicking, headbutting, kneeing, punching or elbowing someone to deliver the spell.
Arcane Ki should have the following added to it;
"At 7th level, his unarmed attacks are also treated as cold iron and silver for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction."
That was added to the monk in the most recent errata for the core rulebook.
Edit: Otherwise, I agree with Kyras.
#Silent Hunter
To me it doesn't seem like he's gaining that much from the ninja. Ideas I've had;
Give it profiency with all eastern weapons the ninja has, it shouldn't be too powerful.
Lose favoured enemy for sneak attack
Lose spells for more ninja abilities (more tricks, sneak attack, light steps)?
#Other
Do you guys want me to continue updating my Google Doc listing all MCAs compiled in the forum threads?
#Arcane Fist
Nothing to add
#Silent Hunter
Agree 100% with Alfray on all of his suggestions. I don't personally see a need for any spells with this MCA (or Rangers ful stop) but this is Browman's baby so let's see his thoughts.
On the sneak attack issue, I built the ability to use sneak attack into a use of his ki pool.
I feel that given that it is a ranger first that he should retain at least some spells but how about diminished spellcasting in exchange for extra ninja tricks?
Also it should be noted that a ninja only has ninja tricks/ ki pool, sneak attack, no trace and the uncanny dodge chain. Silent hunter has several ninja tricks, a ki pool that allows sneak attack and a no trace like poison mastery. So the only ninja type ability that is not there I some form is uncanny dodge.
#Arcane Fist
a possible name change i did not know we had 6 or more Arcane(enter name for other class here)
so i used my thesaurus voodoo and came up with "Mystic Disciple" so just a suggestion i will try and work some to come up with name for any thing with a repeat name like "Arcane" so even if we don't change all of them we can change a few
Mystic Disciple=(involving or characterized by esoteric, otherworldly, or symbolic practices or content, as certain religious ceremonies and art; spiritually significant; ethereal.)+(a person who is a pupil or an adherent of the doctrines of another)
@Arcane Fist: why is he getting wis to ac? There is a magus archetype that lets you get 1 mod of int/ lvl to your unarmored ac already. Why not use that?
#Other
Do you guys want me to continue updating my Google Doc listing all MCAs compiled in the forum threads?
yes please it nice to be able to get to them without a whole lot of digging before they are put up on the WIKI
@Alfray
Keep updating the doc. It's good to have more than one person with all the info.
#Silent Hunter
I have some changes to the MCA that I hope everyone will like. This is essentially what I am working out.
1)replace Favored Enemy with Favored Enemy Strike (remove the +2 attack/damage bonus against enemies and replace with +1d6 sneak damage with each choice of favored enemey, still keeps the skill bonuses against enemies)
2) Combat Style FEat: creating a new "combat style" related to poison.
3) Keep Ninja Tricks as is but move Master Tricks to 13th. Although he has few ninja tricks, he should still be able to learn Master TRicks as close to 10th as possible.
4) Combine in part the Hidden Master and Master Hunter for the capstone.
5) Ki pool as ninja, but may come up with a bit of a "ranger" or "hunter" tweak.
Just be patient, I should have this all up tonight. Going camping in a couple days, lots to do to get ready.
#Arcane Fist
Go ahead Kyras and give a go at coming up with ne names. We'll take a look.
@Birdology: This is much more of an integration of the monk class than just a simple archetype. That's why we went with the full Wis modifier for AC, and probably to make it a bit MAD, since its also gaining so many other monk abilities. But we will take your suggestion into consideration.
@ Silent Hunter: that is starting to look a lot like the Dark Stalker MCA.
@arcane fist: I see what you are saying now EL, I just hope there isn't too much unecisary MADness... That would be insanity...
Alright, here it is. I decided NOT to mess with Master Hunter and just left it.
Primary Class: Ranger.
Secondary Class: Ninja.
Alignment: Any.
Hit Dice: d10.
Bonus Skills and Ranks: The silent hunter may select three ninja skills to add to his class skills in addition to the normal ranger class skills. The silent hunter gains a number of ranks at each level equal to 6 + Int modifier.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency:[/b] The silent hunter is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, plus the kama, katana, kusarigama, nunchaku, sai, shuriken, siangham, and wakizashi. He is also proficient with light armor and light shields.
Favored Enemy Strike (Ex): This is exactly like the ranger’s favored enemy ability, except that the silent hunter does not gain the normal +2 bonus to his attack and damage rolls against his favored enemies. Instead, anytime his favored enemy would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the creature actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the silent hunter flanks his enemy, he deals 1d6 points of extra damage to the enemy. Bonus damage from favored enemy strike is precision damage. Should the silent hunter score a critical hit with a favored enemy strike attack, this precision damage is not multiplied. Ranged attacks count as favored enemy strike attacks only if the target is within 30 feet.
With a weapon that deals nonlethal damage (such as a sap, whip, or unarmed strike), a silent hunter can make a favored enemy strike attack that deals nonlethal damage instead of lethal damage. He cannot use a weapon that deals lethal damage to deal nonlethal damage in a favored enemy strike attack, even with the usual –4 penalty.
The silent hunter must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot, and must be able to reach this spot. A silent hunter cannot make a favored enemy strike while striking a creature that has concealment.
At 5th level and every five levels thereafter (10th, 15th, and 20th level), the silent hunter may select an additional favored enemy. In addition, at each such interval, the extra damage dealt against any one favored enemy (including the one just selected, if so desired) increases by 1d6 (up to a maximum of 5d6 with his 5th favored enemy). If a favored enemy is normally immune to sneak attack or precision damage, it is not immune to the silent hunter’s favored enemy strike damage. A silent hunter that has the sneak attack ability from another class, sneak attack damage from that class stack with his favored enemy strike damage, but only against his favored enemies. Enemies immune to sneak attack or precision damage are immune to sneak attack damage from other classes as normal. This ability otherwise functions as and replaces favored enemy.
Poison Use: At 1st level, a silent hunter gains the ninja’s poison use ability. This ability replaces wild empathy.
Combat Style Feats: This is exactly like the ranger ability of the same name, except that the silent hunter can also choose the poison master combat style, which is restricted to and complements the Silent Hunter archetype.
If the silent hunter selects poison master combat, he can choose one ability from the following list whenever he gains a combat style feat.
Concentrate Poison (Ex): The silent hunter can combine two doses of the same poison to increase their effects. This requires two doses of the poison and 1 minute of concentration. When completed, the silent hunter has one dose of poison. The poison’s frequency is extended by 50% and the save DC increases by +2. This poison must be used within 1 hour of its creation or it is ruined. This is exactly like the alchemist discovery of the same name.
Enhance Poison (Ex): A number of times per day equal to his Intelligence modifier, the silent hunter can increase any poison that deals hit point or ability score damage by one damage die. For example, a poison that deals 1d3 hit point damage can be enhanced to deal 1d4 hit points damage, or one that deals 1 Con damage can be enhanced to deal 1d2 Con damage. Any poison with an effect of unconscious, paralyzed, or confused cannot be enhanced in this manner. If the poison has both a damage and condition effect, only the damage effect can be enhanced.
Extend Poison (Ex): A number of times per day equal to his Intelligence modifier, the silent hunter can double the duration of any poison. For example, a poison with a frequency of 1/round for 6 rounds can be increased to 1/round for 12 rounds.
Master Poisoner (Ex): A silent hunter can use Craft (alchemy) to change the type of a poison. This requires 1 hour of work with an alchemist’s lab and a Craft (alchemy) skill check with a DC equal to the poison’s DC. If successful, the poison’s type changes to contact, ingested, inhaled, or injury. If the check fails, the poison is ruined. The silent hunter also receives a bonus on Craft (alchemy) skill checks when working with poison equal to 1/2 his silent hunter level.
Poison Resistance (Ex): The silent hunter gains a +2 bonus on all saving throws against poison.
At 6th level, a silent hunter adds the following abilities to the list
Improved Poison Resistance (Ex): The silent hunter’s bonus on all saving throws against poison increases to +4. The silent hunter must have the poison resistance ability before selecting this ability.
Merged Poison (Ex): At 5th level, the venom blade can merge two different ingested type poisons into one. When the poisons are ingested, both poisons take effect. The newly merged poison has a save DC two points higher than the poison with highest DC used in the merging. At 8th level, the venom blade can merge two injury type poisons. At 13th level, a venom blade can merge two contact poisons. This ability replaces throw anything.
Poison Conversion (Ex): By spending 1 minute, the silent hunter can convert 1 dose of poison from its current type (contact, ingested, inhaled, or injury) to another type. For example, the silent hunter can convert a dose of Small centipede poison (an injury poison) to an inhaled poison. This process requires an alchemy lab. This is exactly like the alchemist discovery of the same name.
Sticky Poison (Ex): Any poison the silent hunter creates is sticky—when the silent hunter applies it to a weapon, the weapon remains poisoned for a number of strikes equal to the silent hunter’s Intelligence modifier.
At 10th level, a silent hunter adds the following abilities to the list
Malignant Poison (Ex): As a full-round action, the silent hunter can increase the save DC of any poison by 4 and increase its duration by 2 frequency increments (for example, large scorpion venom lasts 8 rounds instead of 6 and drow poison lasts 4 minutes instead of 2). Additionally, malignant poisons take effect immediately and do not have an onset time. This alchemical change lasts until the poison's extended duration ends or for a number of minutes equal to 1/2 the silent hunter’s level, whichever comes first. After that, the poison reverts back to its original state.his is exactly like the alchemist discovery of the same name.
Poisoned Blood (Ex): The silent hunter’s blood is suffused with poison. Any creature that ingests his blood (bites him, or imbibes or consumes his blood) must make a Fortitude saving throw (DC 10 + 1/2 the silent hunter’s level + the silent hunter’s Constitution modifier) or be sickened for 2d6 rounds. The silent hunter does not suffer the effect of the poison of his own blood. Any creatures that is immune to poison is also unaffected by this ability.
Ninja Tricks: At 3rd level, a silent hunter gains the ninja’s ninja trick ability and gains one ninja trick. He gains one additional ninja trick for every five silent hunter levels attained after 3rd. This ability and master tricks replace favored terrain.
Hunter’s Ki Pool (Su): At 4th level, a silent hunter gains a pool of ki points similar to a ninja’s ki pool that he can use to accomplish amazing feats. The number of points in the hunter’s ki pool is equal to 1/2 his silent hunter level + his Wisdom modifier. As long as he has at least 1 point in his hunter’s ki pool, he treats any Acrobatics any Acrobatics skill check made to jump as if she had a running start. At 10th level, she also reduces the DC of Acrobatics skill checks made to jump by 1/2 (although she still cannot move farther than her speed allows).
By spending 1 point from his hunter’s ki pool, a silent hunter can make one additional favored enemy strike attack at his highest attack bonus against a single favored enemy, but he can do so only when making a full attack. In addition, he can spend 1 point to increase his speed by 20 feet for 1 round. Finally, a silent hunter can spend 1 point from his hunter’s ki pool to give him a +4 insight bonus on Stealth checks against his favored enemies for 1 round. Each of these powers is activated as a swift action. A silent hunter can gain additional powers that consume points from his hunter’s ki pool by selecting certain ninja tricks.
The hunter’s ki pool is replenished each morning after 8 hours of rest or meditation; these hours do not need to be consecutive. If the silent hunter possesses levels in another class that grants points to a ki pool, silent hunter levels stack with the levels of that class to determine the total number of ki points in the combined pool, but only one ability score modifier is added to the total. The choice of which score to use is made when the second class ability is gained, and once made, the choice is set. The silent hunter can now use ki points from this pool to power the abilities of every class he possesses that grants a ki pool. This ability otherwise functions as the ninja’s ki pool and replaces hunter’s bond.
Master Tricks: At 13th level, whenever a silent hunter could select a ninja trick, he can choose a master trick instead.
Table: Silent Hunter
Base
Class Attack Fort Ref Will Spells per Day
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special 1st 2nd 3rd 4th
1st +1 +2 +2 +0 1st favored enemy strike, poison use, track — — — —
2nd +2 +3 +3 +0 Combat style feat — — — —
3rd +3 +3 +3 +1 Endurance, ninja trick — — — —
4th +4 +4 +4 +1 Hunter’s ki pool 0 — — —
5th +5 +4 +4 +1 2nd favored enemy strike 1 — — —
6th +6/+1 +5 +5 +2 Combat style feat 1 — — —
7th +7/+2 +5 +5 +2 Woodland stride 1 0 — —
8th +8/+3 +6 +6 +2 Ninja trick, swift tracker 1 1 — —
9th +9/+4 +6 +6 +3 Evasion 2 1 — —
10th +10/+5 +7 +7 +3 3rd favored enemy strike, combat style feat 2 1 0 —
11th +11/+6/+1 +7 +7 +3 Quarry 2 1 1 —
12th +12/+7/+2 +8 +8 +4 Camouflage 2 2 1 —
13th +13/+8/+3 +8 +8 +4 Master tricks, ninja trick 3 2 1 0
14th +14/+9/+4 +9 +9 +4 Combat style feat 3 2 1 1
15th +15/+10/+5 +9 +9 +5 4th favored enemy strike 3 2 2 1
16th +16/+11/+7/+2 +10 +10 +5 Improved evasion 3 3 2 1
17th +17/+12/+7/+2 +10 +10 +5 Hide in plain sight 4 3 2 1
18th +18/+13/+8/+3 +11 +11 +6 Combat style feat, ninja trick 4 3 2 2
19th +19/+14/+9/+4 +11 +11 +6 Improved quarry 4 3 3 2
20th +20/+15/+10/+5 +12 +12 +6 5th favored enemy strike, master hunter 4 4 3 3
@silent hunter: so favored enemy strike... 1d6 SA/ 5 lvls and only against a chosen favored enemy? That is a nerf beyond nerfing. The flat +2 to hit/dmg is by and large better than a situational 1d6, and a flat 1d6 vs all is by and large better than choosing certain enemies from a list. What was gained from watering it down?
no one ever said was balances easy
#Arcane Fist
Yup, I think we need a name change as well.
It doesn't seem any more MAD than a normal magus, you just need high Wis instead of high Int.
#Silent Hunter
How about this:
This is exactly like the ranger’s favored enemy ability, except that the silent hunter does not gain the normal +2 bonus to his attack and damage rolls against his favored enemies. Instead, he deals 1d6 points of extra damage to the enemy. Bonus damage from favored enemy strike is precision damage. Should the silent hunter score a critical hit with a favored enemy strike attack, this precision damage is not multiplied. Ranged attacks count as favored enemy strike attacks only if the target is within 30 feet.
With a weapon that deals nonlethal damage (such as a sap, whip, or unarmed strike), a silent hunter can make a favored enemy strike attack that deals nonlethal damage instead of lethal damage. He cannot use a weapon that deals lethal damage to deal nonlethal damage in a favored enemy strike attack, even with the usual –4 penalty.
The silent hunter must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot, and must be able to reach this spot. A silent hunter cannot make a favored enemy strike while striking a creature that has concealment.
At 5th level and every five levels thereafter (10th, 15th, and 20th level), the silent hunter may select an additional favored enemy. In addition, at each such interval, the extra damage dealt against any one favored enemy (including the one just selected, if so desired) increases by 1d6 (up to a maximum of 5d6 with his 5th favored enemy). If a favored enemy is normally immune to sneak attack or precision damage, it is not immune to the silent hunter’s favored enemy strike damage. A silent hunter that has the sneak attack ability from another class, sneak attack damage from that class stack with his favored enemy strike damage, but only against his favored enemies. Enemies immune to sneak attack or precision damage are immune to sneak attack damage from other classes as normal. This ability otherwise functions as and replaces favored enemy.
All I've done is removed the "anytime his favored enemy would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the creature actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the silent hunter flanks his enemy" limitation.
Any thoughts on swapping Woodland Stride for Light Steps (gained at 7th level)?
@Alfray: looks good to me, and if the silent hunter is losing access to spells (instant enemy) I don't think it will get too broken at all. Alternately, you could let the hunter spend a full round action to designate his "favored enemy". Doing this assures that you are only targeting 1-2 foes per combat encounter (at best), and it keeps a "hunter" vibe as well.
And I like the Light Steps swap, seems extremely appropriate.
Last note: arcane fist -> mystic conduit?
#Silent Hunter
The current version still has spells but the difference between the damage gain with favored enemy and using the favored enemy bonus to attack for power attack/deadly aim, and the average damage from my version of favoured enemy strike means that a ranger with power attack/deadly aim is dealing slightly more damage on average.
This forum is rubbish at displaying tables but here's the data showing the various attack and damage bonuses.
Level Favored Enemy Favored Enemy Strike (average damage) Power Attack|Deadly Aim
1 +2/+2 1d6 (3.5) -1/+2
5 +4/+4 2d6 (7.0) -2/+4
10 +6/+6 3d6 (10.5) -3/+6
15 +8/+8 4d6 (14.0) -4/+8
20 +10/+10 5d6 (17.5) -5/+12
Thus at level 20, a ranger has +5 to hit and +22 damage against a favored enemy (using power attack/deadly aim), a silent hunter has +5d6 damage (average of 17.5, min: 5, max: 30). The ranger gains his attack and damage bonuses at any range, the silent hunter has a 30 ft. range limit.
Notes: My power attack calculations are done assuming you're wielding a one-handed weapon (as then the maths is identical to deadly aim).
I don't think (from a purely mathematical basis - unless my assumptions are wrong) that swapping a ranger's +2 attack/+2 damage for +1d6 damage is entirely balanced, but it's a bit more fair than +1d6 damage when flanking or the target is denied Dex to AC.
The new favoured enemy strike looks much better
Just spotting that Power Attack/Deadly Aim should be -6/+12 at 20th level.
Therefore at 20th level, a ranger has +4 to hit and +22 damage against a favoured enemy.
Yup, that looks like a good fix. I thought about that last night in bed, after seeing Bird's comment. I concluded that I couldn't see why he couldn't just deal precision damage (through training vs. the loss of Dex requirement). Good work Guys!
My concerns are that a straight ranger has a better chance to hit and can deal more damage even when using power attack (22 with a one-handed weapon, 28 with a two-handed vs +5d6 and taking an attack penalty when power attacking).
Other possible progressions:
A progression of 6d6 precision damage (1st, 5th, 9th, 13th, 17th, 20th?) would give an average damage of 21.5 (min: 6, max: 36).
A progression of 7d6 precision damage (1st, 4th, 7th, 11th, 14th, 17th, 20th?) would give an average damage of 24.5 (min: 7, max: 42).
Another issue I just realized is that keeping ki as charisma based makes the silent hunter very MAD needing decent scores in at least Str or Dex, Wis, Cha and preferably have a bonus in thr other of str/dex and con
Well, remember this is a mashed together Rgr/Nnj, the ranger should probably have a better chance to hit, since he is more focused ont he whole enemy thing than the MCA is.
I think the +1d6 per choice of enemy is fine. We could always give a +1 bous to attack if that's a concern, and increases by +1 at each increment. Thus, at 20th it'd look like this (no damage bonus, just a higher potential damage:
1st favored: +5 hit, +5d6 dmg
2nd favored: +4 hit, +4d6 dmg
3rd favored: +3 hit, +3d6 dmg
4th favored: +2 hit, +2d6 dmg
5th favored: +1 hit, +1d6 dmg
@Browman
Hunter's Ki pool is Wis in my version. I thought about that.
I'd say +1 to hit, +1d6 damage per favoured enemy should fine, but its up to Browman.
You have a full BaB chassis and you add the possibility of regular access to vanish (making a foe flat footed). Yes there is a trade off, but the hunter is in between the hit chance of the ninja (meh), and the ranger (considerably better). I think it's a good balance.
Btw, what is keeping you from keying ki off of wis?
I think the +1 to hit +1d6 is the way to go.
I agree Ki should be off wis, I missed that part when reading through the last version.