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Is this about the b**ching over on GitP a couple weeks back? There is room in the game for more than one guy to be good with a weapon or two. It's kind of a hallmark of fighting with weapons. Fighters get an ever increasing bonus on an ever expanding list of weapons. Warlords get a good bonus on a smaller selection of weapons. This is fine. If they aren't good at using weapons you might as well take the "war" out of their name.
How does Pretty Daisy Lord sound?
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Is this about the b**ching over on GitP a couple weeks back? There is room in the game for more than one guy to be good with a weapon or two. It's kind of a hallmark of fighting with weapons. Fighters get an ever increasing bonus on an ever expanding list of weapons. Warlords get a good bonus on a smaller selection of weapons. This is fine. If they aren't good at using weapons you might as well take the "war" out of their name.
How does Pretty Daisy Lord sound?
^^ This.
He's still not getting access to Fighter feats, which is what the Fighter's core mechanic actually revolves around, and if you jump back about 600 posts you'll see me detailing at length why the Warlord and the Fighter occupy different places in the combat world.
I also feel like the Warlord is in exactly the right place complexity-wise, and worry that bringing on an additional complex mechanic might be unnecessary and actually detract from the class.
I had nothing to do with that actually.
It had to do with making more class features within the warlord more maneuver-centric. They can do maneuvers, yeah, but they could do MORE with them. Just a thought. I wasn't sold on it either. It was an idea that came up and had merit and I wanted to get some different viewpoints on it.
-X
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I had nothing to do with that actually.
It had to do with making more class features within the warlord more maneuver-centric. They can do maneuvers, yeah, but they could do MORE with them. Just a thought. I wasn't sold on it either. It was an idea that came up and had merit and I wanted to get some different viewpoints on it.
-X
Did you happen to see my question on how you would execute it? I can see a lot of ways it could go wrong, I was just curious what your thought on how to make it go right might be.
I think a couple static bonuses are actually exactly what the class should have, and think the mix of complexity and ease of use now is pretty much exactly right, but I'd be curious on how you were thinking about executing a maneuver-sharing system.
It would be a simple, "Here, have a copy of my Boost or Counter for my Charisma mod in rounds, good friend and ally, or until it is used."
-X
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It would be a simple, "Here, have a copy of my Boost or Counter for my Charisma mod in rounds, good friend and ally, or until it is used."
-X
We're aware that that is like, bonkers powerful compared to Battle Prowess, yes? The Warlord already is so strong because he fully utilizes his own action economy, and can squeeze extra juice out of other party members using Warleader. Allowing him to give them copies of his counters and boosts is just.... A lot. Especially since he normally has to activate Gambits or spend actions to regain maneuvers....
I personally like the idea because it would make the Warlord a stupid powerful party leader, but I think it would be too complex for some players, it would actually dictate choices to a certain extent since players would feel obligated to have enough counters and boosts to make the ability worthwhile, and how useful it is is also going to be dictated by the party composition to a much greater degree.
This feels like a mechanic that I would like to see in the game, but not as a core mechanic of the Warlord. This feels like it would be more at home placed in an archetype or PrC focused on amping the leadership abilities of an initiator.
Maybe somewhere like, in the Pride Leader Knight PrC....
I find it amusing the huge difference in theory between just here and GitP. I asked the question in both places, and I get the completely opposite viewpoint.
-X
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I find it amusing the huge difference in theory between just here and GitP. I asked the question in both places, and I get the completely opposite viewpoint.
-X
Oh? What was their thought on the matter? (I ask while quietly admitting that I'm already determining the many ways they could be wrong based on some of the other "theory-crafting" I've seen over there)
Because here's the thing on the power of this ability:
Say I have Jimmy the Warlord and Joe the Fighter. Joe will probably never use his swift action, except on some very rare corner cases. Joe is essentially a pool of untapped action economy for Jimmy to draw upon. Jimmy already has one way to do this via Warleader, doing cool things like Coordinated Charge. Now we've given Jimmy another tool that's potentially even more powerful. You see, Jimmy normally has to use a swift action to adopt a stance, and sometimes it's hard to get to that action when you're busting out counters and boosts that are pretty necessary to keep the party alive. Enter Joe. Jimmy now pops the maneuvers he wants to ensure occur to Joe (Here you go buddy!) and gets to start stacking up abilities. I get to Stance and Strike out the gate, Joe uses the Boost I gave him to give everyone the bonus I wanted, and now I've freed up my action economy to bust a counter or boost again, effectively having gained an additional movement, bonus to attack and damage, prevented an enemy attack etc. that I didn't have / couldn't have previously. That beats the unholy hell out of Battle Prowess as far as effectiveness and power goes, and it has the unfortunate side effects I've mentioned previously: increased bookkeeping on an already complex class, "forced" build choices to utilize class abilities, etc.
Moreover, if the other guy is just getting "copies" of the maneuvers I've loaned him, there's more going on, because I have limited maneuvers readied and all that, right? If I start shoving maneuvers onto a party member with un-utilized action economy, I'm not just improving action economy over-all, I'm also getting more maneuvers per encounter, which has to be tabulated into the overall power level of the class. More maneuvers means longer periods of time without having to activate a Gambit, and means that instead of the character's damage following a cyclical ebb and flow, it instead ramps up and stays up round after round until combat is over, unless combat lasts a really long time or the character has exceptionally poor rolls.
Just that it fit the theme (and it does) and the class needs a power boost. Perhaps as an archetype ability that trades out something other than battle prowess.
The two places that have contributed most to the whole thing outside of the DSP forum, and you guys couldn't be more different. Cracks me up sometimes. ^_^
-X
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Just that it fit the theme (and it does) and the class needs a power boost. Hrm. The two places that have contributed most to the whole thing outside of the DSP forum, and you guys couldn't be more different. Cracks me up sometimes. ^_^
-X
Like I said, thematically it's neat, but it's probably too powerful in a lot of situations, and it's too complicated for a base class mechanic. After all, every time they use it they've got to "teach" the party member they're granting it to how to use the maneuver, the maneuver has to be figured using the grantee's statistics and skills...
The Warlord is already a reasonably complex class. A maneuver-sharing ability is another level of complexity all together with all the baggage I've mentioned in the last several posts. It would make the class prohibitively inaccessible to players with a lower level of experience and one of the nice things about the class as is is that it provides such a great scope of playability from newbies all the way up to vets.|
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It might also be worth considering that it forces everyone in the party to be interested in initiating. In my group I might be the only one who wants to use maneuvers. I can still play a warlord and stay away from golden lion. But not if you make maneuver sharing a core ability. This seems like an aarchetype to me. A sensei kind of thing.
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*** Perhaps as an archetype ability that trades out something other than battle prowess.
***
-X
For a PrC ability where you're breaking away from your core ability progression or as the focus of an archetype it's an awesome idea/mechanic. I really like the idea of that Pride Leader Knight archetype turning a cavalier into an Initiator and even sharing that ability with his compatriots; it could also make for a cool Warlord or Warder archetype or PrC.
But Yuengling has proven that one-on-one the class can stand right next to any of its peers in combat, and he isn't even taking advantage of the Warlord's best abilities (party buffs and Warleader). The Warlordcan already give the Bard a run for its money in making a party perform at a higher level, and it curb stomps the Cavalier on that front, as is. It squeezes a lot of extra damage out of a party. I mean, a lot, especially if he's smart and picks up either Coordinated Charge or Target of Opportunity (depending on weapon choice and group make-up).I really don't see the Warlord as needing a power boost at all.
Gonna confess, the idea is mine. However, I'm at a loss as to how Warleader makes thematic sense ("Quick, take this feat that you won't know after the end of this encounter!") and somehow maneuver sharing wouldn't. Maneuvers are martial techniques; feats that relate to combat are also martial techniques. If you can grant one by shouting orders you can grant the other.
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Gonna confess, the idea is mine. However, I'm at a loss as to how Warleader makes thematic sense ("Quick, take this feat that you won't know after the end of this encounter!") and somehow maneuver sharing wouldn't. Maneuvers are martial techniques; feats that relate to combat are also martial techniques. If you can grant one by shouting orders you can grant the other.
A feat is like a Tactical technique with unlimited useability. A Maneuver is so taxing and difficult to perform that not only does the Warlord only know a handful of them, but even he, the expert, can generally only perform it once per encounter. I can see a dude shouting "Shoot for the opening!!" or "Everyone, follow me!!" (Target of Opportunity, Coordinated Charge), I have a harder time envisioning "Okay, so I've only got 2 seconds to relay this, but listen closely: You're going to need to bend your knees, focus your chi, you know what chi is right?, focus your chi, and right before that sword hits any of your buddies let loose a resounding yell that will cause them to instantly react and dodge the blade"
That being said, I don't actually have an issue with it thematically, I just think it's waaayyyyy more powerful than the ability it's replacing, Battle Prowess, and I also don't think the Warlord is underpowered by any stretch of the imagination.
Like I said, I just think the power and mechanic fits better with a PrC or archetype that uses it as a core ability.
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That being said, I don't actually have an issue with it thematically, I just think it's waaayyyyy more powerful than the ability it's replacing, Battle Prowess, and I also don't think the Warlord is underpowered by any stretch of the imagination.
This is accurate. Let's just look at Blade Breaking Counter. It essentially gives you the bonus of a feat (Improved Sunder since it gives +2 to the check and doesn't provoke) PLUS it lets you do it as an immediate action and potentially prevent or halve damage.
You see how that's more powerful than a feat?
Name one feat that lets you add a flat 20 extra damage to a charge like momentum crush. Spirited Charge is the only thing that approximates it.
And I'm just doing Primal Fury. Don't even get me started on how many bonus actions you could squeeze out of Golden Lion.
EDIT: Also, I looked at GitP. They all said it seemed like a cool and thematic ability but I didn't see any sign of critical analysis. So, yeah, our takes on the proposed ability are different. It is cool and thematic but you'd have to replace at least two of his current abilities. At least.
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I don't know if or when I'll get to do a level 15 playtest for the Defender of the Realm. I have a busy week and I leave Sunday for Denver on business.
Chris, I sent you the docs for the level 10 test and I'll talk a bit about the experience so far in case I don't get to do the 15.
It's really strong.
Really, really strong.
Mounted Combat is strong in general but the Defender has several advantages.
1. No armor check penalties on Ride checks means he can wear full plate without having to invest in mithral.
2. Maneuvers work well with charging allowing you to stack even more damage on top of Spirited Charge. This is kind of a big deal. In Pathfinder like many RPGs, HP damage doesn't affect you until you're at zero. A guy with 1hp fights and defends himself just as well as when he had 100hp. But if you can kill him in one hit, he does nothing. Although this didn't affect me because of the way starting position works in the arena, in a real game, killing off guys will also increase the chances that the Defender will be able to use Ride-by Attack over and over with impunity.
3. Counters and stances also synergize well with mounted combat. Mounts are often the weak link in the mounted warriors chain of destruction. Not so with counters and some of the stances. With Ion Horse Stance, El Horso had an AC of 34, DR5/-, and dealt extra damage. With counters I could negate hits against it and then do so again with Mounted Combat (with no AC penalty).
Some ideas. A reduction in armor check penalties to Ride check rather than a blanket dismissal of them might be a good start. I think that the damage dice on a lot of the maneuvers will need to get scaled down, too. Defender Training may need to replace heavy armor proficiency as well as tower shield proficiency. Consider beginning Extended Defense at 8 as normal and having Mounted Partnership replace the increased uses per day at 15th level.
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Also, Lordy but Cornered Frenzy Strike does a silly amount of damage when you have a weapon, a spiked shield and spiked armor. Instead of casting Fireball, I'd want my wizard to make a spell that dropped me in the middle of a pile of guys. It is entirely possible that hitting everyone within reach with every weapon you have is already strong enough without adding extra damage dice.
I think the Frenzy strikes will get a downgrade, looking at what your guy did with it was enough to make me shiver. Thanks again for all the play test data dude! I knew PL was a bit strong, easier for me to tone it down than amp it up. El Horso... I love that horse dude :P
As an aside I asked to GitP: What kinds of archetypes would you like to see? What kind of archetypes for the core classes of Pathfinder, and what kind of archetypes would you like to see for the psionic classes that DSP has produced, and lastly, what kind of archetypes for the stalker, warder, and warlord?
-X
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The knee-jerk response I have is an archetype for the Aegis that allows him to use his Astral Suit in similar ways as a Warder uses his shield. Maybe a small selection of maneuvers gained as well, but primary focus on extending the defensive bonuses of the Suit in the same way the Warder can blockade around for people.
A similar schtick for Soulknife with one of the other two classes - again kneejerk suggestion would be Stalker - probably wouldn't be remiss either.
A Marksman archetype that gets him a little Solar Wind trickery.
A Tactician archetype that tacks on some of the "leader of men" tricks from the Warlord and/or Warder.
Those are just the ones off the top of my head while I'm at work. Maybe will have more later =)
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I'd like a Magus archetype reminiscent of the ol' Jade Phoenix Mage PrC, but with a little more warmage and a little less Eastern flavor, and combining initiator moves and magus abilities right out the gate, maybe subbing Spell Combat for an ability that allows me to Spellstrike and Initiate a Strike as part of the same action.
I'd like an archetype for the Psychic Warrior blending psionics and maneuvers.
I'd like to see an archetype or PrC that blends the Aegis with the Warder.
I'd like an archetype for the ***EDIT*** Cryptic, where he gains access specifically to initiator Counters, using his ability to break down the basic formulas of reality to predict how an enemy will attack.
I'd like an archetype for the Barbarian giving him acces to Primal Fury Maneuvers, and one for the Monk giving him Broken Blade abilities.
I'd like to see a Paladin archetype that utilizes Scarlet Throne, and a Fighter Cavalier archetype that utilizes Golden Lion (you know what I mean for that one).
I can probably think of a few more, let me ruminate on it.
I'd like an archetype for the (I'm fuzzy on this name because the book isn't in front of me) Cipher, I believe (the guy who looks at the world as a puzzle, the psioninc rogueish class) where he gains access specifically to initiator Counters, using his ability to break down the basic formulas of reality to predict how an enemy will attack.
Cryptic.
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I'd like an archetype for the (I'm fuzzy on this name because the book isn't in front of me) Cipher, I believe (the guy who looks at the world as a puzzle, the psioninc rogueish class) where he gains access specifically to initiator Counters, using his ability to break down the basic formulas of reality to predict how an enemy will attack.Cryptic.
Thanks dude. I got Cipher stuck in my head the first time I ever saw the class, and I was pretty sure it was close but wrong :P
I love the flavor of the Cryptic class though, and I think adding in an archetype where he is like, mathematically predicting what will happen in combat around him would be awesome.
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A Gunslinger archetype with Solar Wind access. I have a hard time not picturing like, the Trigun anime when I say that, but I also don't think it's necessarily a bad thing. A dude with blazing bullets could be a lot of fun. If you're going to do this though, don't replace Grit with maneuvers. Maybe instead allow him a new Maneuver-based way to spend Grit.
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A prestige class or archetype aimed at the bard called like, the Noble Duelist or Legendary Rake or something similar giving Scarlet Throne and Golden Lion access. This would even be a cool opportunity to introduce a spell-less bard archetype by dropping his spell-casting feature completely and subbing in Maneuvers instead. Since the bard is one of those classes who does a good job of utilizing all of their actions, this would probably require introducing a mechanic allowing them to blend boosts into their performances as well. If you like the idea, let me know, I have some ideas on how to execute it.
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I'd love to see a stalker archetype that blended in the Soulknifes weapon manifestation. It doesn't have to be Soulknife, though. It could be a more generic thing like the Spellblade Magus' athame.
Either as a Fighter Archetype or as a Warlord one, (and I know I've harped on this plenty) a leader who leads by virtue of being the most vicious guy in the gang. Look at a leader like Idi Amin. Not exactly a savvy ruler or anything but he ate people so he stayed in charge. Until he didn't. But that's the nature of an African dictatorship.
I'd like to see a Warder archetype that was learned and sagacious. Int is already a factor there so doing some cool stuff with it and knowledge would be neat. The deductionist class (TPK) does some really cool stuff with smarts.
A Stalker that traded out some class abilities like Deadly Strike, Dual Strike and maybe some of their Stalker Arts for casting from a limited list of shadowy, illusiony spells. Maybe make up a couple spells but I think there'd be plenty to choose from Paizo and maybe some 3PP? Rite Publishing made an awesome Umbral Weaver Bard Archetype that could be used for inspiration.
I've probably got more but there's a good start.
EDIT: Animal Companions that can initiate maneuvers. That would be sick as hell.
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+1 on everyone noting the synergies between the Stalker and Soulknife and recommending a blend between the two, whether via archetype or PrC.
A Prestige class or archetype allowing a character (maybe Ranger focused?) to share their maneuvers with an Animal Companion would be wicked cool as well. I think it would be better as a Ranger archetype, maybe one that gives access to a slightly different and specific list of animals, and limited to like Primal Fury only. It could be way too powerful for a druid.
This would be another one where it could be a cool archetype to sub out spellcasting for. I love the mental image of a ranger and his wolf flying across the battlefield to Devil's Tiger Charge side-by-side.
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I'm noticing a trend you've probably seen as well, namely "Look at any 3/4 or 1/2 progression spellcaster, and see if it wouldn't be cooler to replace their spellcasting with Maneuvers".
I really like the idea I touched on earlier of a Paladin archetype. Have him trade out Divine Bond and his spellcasting for limited access to Scarlet Throne and Golden Lion, give him a kind of dark feel, call him something like "Benevolent Tyrant".
I'm liking a lot of these ideas.
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So - Codes are starting to become A Thing. I'm really excited about what I've been working on so far and it's looking like my Exalted Design Lead, Whose Voice is the Dawn, is likin' it as well.
...Now to find out if I can put mechanics on these things in a way that doesn't make me want to hurt myself.
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So, I was up last night thinking about that Penitent Fist Inquisitor archetype I'd recommended, and I have to tell you... If you don't make it, I totally will, because that is sooooo going to be my next character. I kind of want to cheat and see how many of the baddies in Wrath of the Righteous use weapons and if it would be worthwhile to go with that character in that campaign.
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Barbarian: Archetype that swaps out rage powers for maneuvers that it can initiate while raging. Each rage power (even levels) adds a new maneuver readied. Maybe give them them a couple Gambits to recover maneuvers.
Bard: Something similar could be done here where they get maneuvers that can be activated while in bardic performance. Could be a battle trance or something.
Note: The nice thing about these two ideas is that you wouldn't have to limit yourself to one or two disciplines. You could just give them maneuvers from multiple disciplines that fit their theme the most. Ridiculously brutal for Barbarian and flowing and artsy for the Bard.
Cleric: I'd like to see this keep most of its healing (so spontaneous heals and channels) and add maneuvers. Strip a domain and allow 1-2 less spells prepared each day? Healing combined with Golden Lion and Iron Turtle (still calling it that) would be jawsome*.
Druid: Rather than maneuvers for their AniCom, I think maneuver's usable only in Wild Shape would be cool. Broken Blade would work. Also giving them Feral Combat Training and bonus style feats. Probably strip Nature's Bond to do it and drop some spells prepared.
Fighter: I'd do anything to make a Fighter cool again. Call me crazy but what if the Fighter archetype got access to every single discipline and got to ignore the prerequisite of a certain number of known maneuvers from the discipline for higher maneuvers. Just let him pick the coolest thing he wants at every level. He'll still suck but he'll suck so much less.
Monk: Monks suck. Take away their most useless abilities (of which there are plenty to choose from) and give them broken blade. Give them a x times per day ability to add a strike maneuver to a flurry. It'll be better than a normal monk but I think we can all agree that's not going to break the system.
Paladin: I think dropping Smite as a starting point would be good for an archetype here. Smite is insanely powerful and it'll give you room to play with some interesting ideas without overpowering it. Something like being able to use a strike during a full attack when the Divine Bond weapon is active could be neat. Something else for when they pick the mount Divine Bond.
Ranger: Still want the Ranger and his animal to do maneuvers. Sooooo cool.
Rogue: Paizo released a Poisoner archetype but it's terribly lame. Steel Serpent and cool mundane poison abilities would be awesome and fill a need that really exists.
I don't know what to do for the Sorcerer and Wizard. They're already super powerful.
*Yes, that's a Street Sharks reference. I love that word.
Cleric: I'd like to see this keep most of its healing (so spontaneous heals and channels) and add maneuvers. Strip a domain and allow 1-2 less spells prepared each day? Healing combined with Golden Lion and Iron Turtle (still calling it that) would be jawsome*.
Super Genius has an "archetype packages" thing that swaps out features from all the base classes for a set of archetype options; their option for Cleric is dropping the domains for the alternative instead, and it works out surprisingly well. I agree that this would be an awesome and welcome option.
I like most of YD and Sslarn's options in additions to the ones I gave =) Keep 'em coming guys
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I don't know what to do for the Sorcerer and Wizard. They're already super powerful.
New Sorcerer Bloodline called "Immortal Warrior". Arcana and Bloodline powers are maneuvers and stance(s), grants bonus spells like True Strike and Transformation.
Wizard is both harder to find a theme for, and probably not really necessary. Not every class needs an initiator archetype. I think Wizard is just too different mechanically and thematically for a good archetype, though a Warder/Wizard focused PrC that focused around using a shield as your Arcane Bond item and combining the Marking mechanic with battlefield control spells could be interesting....
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Paladin: I think dropping Smite as a starting point would be good for an archetype here. Smite is insanely powerful and it'll give you room to play with some interesting ideas without overpowering it. Something like being able to use a strike during a full attack when the Divine Bond weapon is active could be neat. Something else for when they pick the mount Divine Bond.
I think Paladin probably has room for 3 or 4 Initiator archetypes. I could see an archetype that traded out Divine Bone but kept Smite as more of a Brute type, one who traded Smite but got access to Piercing Lance and some goodies for the Mount Divine Bond, and a "divine weapon bonded" type Paladin who has to choose the Weapon Divine Bond but gets discipline access instead of Smite.
One thing I'd really like to see is having these archetypes integrate maneuvers into the classes' existing systems. For example, paladins who can burn uses of Lay on Hands to renew their maneuvers, Oracles who can sacrifice spells, Magus' who spend points from their Arcane Pool to power their abilities, Gunslingers who spend Grit to activate/renew maneuvers, things like that. That way you're enhancing the existing framework instead of grafting a whole new system on top, and you get a more organic and instinctual feel to the integration.
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On the Ranger archetype, I'm think maybe really push the teamwork angle between the two of them. Here's a sort of general idea of what I'm thinking. I'm calling it Hunter for now for lack of a better name.
Hunter's Companion: At first level, the Hunter gains an animal companion as the druid ability but with a limited list. The Hunter may choose any animal companion that has only one natural attack. This replaces Hunter's Bond.
Maneuvers: Whenever the Hunter readies maneuvers she may allocate a number of maneuvers equal to half her Hunter level (minimum 1) to her companion. The companion may use these maneuvers as though it knew and readied them. It does not need a special command to use a maneuver.
Warder progression. Primal Fury for sure, maybe one or two more. Probably not Piercing Lance. Let's not dilute that. This replaces Favored Enemy and Spell Casting. I'm also considering only allowing the Hunter to allocate strikes and counters to his companion.
Companion Tactics: At second level and every four levels thereafter, the Hunter receives a bonus Teamwork Feat. His Companion is treated as if it possessed the same teamwork feats as the hunter for the purpose of determining whether the inquisitor receives a bonus from her teamwork feats. Her companion also recieves any bonuses from these feats as though it actually possess the feats. The companions’ positioning and actions must still meet the prerequisites listed in the teamwork feat for the Hunter and her companion to receive the listed bonus. This replaces Combat Style and the bonus feats gained from that.
Companion Stance: At 11th level the Hunter's companion receives the benefit from whatever stance the hunter is in. This replaces Quarry
Bonded Strike: At 19th level, once per day The Hunter may expend a readied strike and both she and her companion initiate it.
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How about Wildblade or something? Hunter, being the name of one of the new Advanced classes just recently announced by Paizo, probably not the best idea, and bound to get confusing in discussion.
Companion Tactis also seems like too much of a Cavalier ability. It's almost identical to the Pack Tactics ability of the Cavalier archetype from the Animal Archive. Maybe emphasize their connection another way, like giving them a shared pool of maneuvers?
I'd probably reduce the maneuver progression so that it's not as good as a full initiator and then shift Bonded Strike way forward so that it's acquired around the time you'd normally acquire an Animal Companion.
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Wildblade is a great name.
I know Companion Tactics is a little derivative but I though really pushing the teamwork, companionship angle for him would be cool. I don't think any Ranger archetype does teamwork feats currently.
What archetype are you talking about, though? If we're talking about the Huntmaster, he doesn't have anything precisely like this, although the changes to Tactician are similar, it still requires an action on the part of the Cavalier and can apply to a whole pack of critters.
I wanted to really focus on making these two fight as a single unit and do so in interesting ways. Teamwork Feats are the easiest and lowest page count way to do that.
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Wildblade is a great name.
I know Companion Tactics is a little derivative but I though really pushing the teamwork, companionship angle for him would be cool. I don't think any Ranger archetype does teamwork feats currently.
What archetype are you talking about, though? If we're talking about the Huntmaster, he doesn't have anything precisely like this, although the changes to Tactician are similar, it still requires an action on the part of the Cavalier and can apply to a whole pack of critters.
I wanted to really focus on making these two fight as a single unit and do so in interesting ways. Teamwork Feats are the easiest and lowest page count way to do that.
I almost feel like the Ranger deserves a Teamwork Combat Style all on its own. That'd probably be a better way to go about it, create a Teamwork based Combat Style, then force that selection on the build and then plug in the other pieces. I do really think Bonded Strike and a shared Maneuver pool with a slower progression would be a better way to go so you can explore and enjoy that shared maneuver at more levels of play instead of not until the end (or after) of most campaigns.
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I think there may be a miscommunication here. The Wild blade can allocate a strike to his companion immediately from his own pool. The 19th level ability just let's you both use a strike at the cost of 1 readied maneuver.
Ah, gotchya. Was the intent that the companion would still spend his actions using it, or was it meant to be like a free action for the AC? One of the weird things here is that most people play it like Animal Companions go on their owners turn, but the core rules actually assume that animal companions other than mounts are going on their own initiative, so clarifying that the AC is doing this as an immediate/free/what-have-you is probably something that'd need to happen.
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So the idea would be that the Wildblade has his readied maneuvers. When he selects his readied maneuvers, he can allocate some of them (half level max) to be known and readied by the animal companion. It would use them using the same rules as any other initiator. Possibly just use the save DC from the Wildblade rather than it's own stats, though.
So at level 4 it would have 4 maneuvers readied. It could allocate up to two of them to the companion to use as normal.
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So the idea would be that the Wildblade has his readied maneuvers. When he selects his readied maneuvers, he can allocate some of them (half level max) to be known and readied by the animal companion. It would use them using the same rules as any other initiator. Possibly just use the save DC from the Wildblade rather than it's own stats, though.
So at level 4 it would have 4 maneuvers readied. It could allocate up to two of them to the companion to use as normal.
And Bonded Strike? How would you handle the action economy there? Immediate action for the AC?
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Alchemist: Maybe an ability to add bomb damage to unarmed attacks, you know, wreathing his hands in alchemical fire. Then give him Broken Blade. It would be unique at least.
Cavalier: Can't beat the Pride Leader. Must give him a lion to ride. Because this.
Gunslinger: A gunslinger with Solar Wind would be so BA. I believe you've mentioned a black powder discipline so that one, too. Probably replace deeds and bonus feats. I like the idea of using Grit to recover maneuvers.
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The idea is for it to still take the same action cost as normal but only cost one readied maneuver.
There is a problem with that, though, as it is sort of written under the assumption that they go on the same initiative count. That's the way we always play it for simplicity and I was not thinking about RAW when I came up with it. Maybe just put in wording that the companion bond is so strong that it always acts on the Wildblade's initiative.
Thanks for the feedback.
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The idea is for it to still take the same action cost as normal but only cost one readied maneuver.
There is a problem with that, though, as it is sort of written under the assumption that they go on the same initiative count. That's the way we always play it for simplicity and I was not thinking about RAW when I came up with it. Maybe just put in wording that the companion bond is so strong that it always acts on the Wildblade's initiative.
Thanks for the feedback.
No worries! I do really like the idea (as I said earlier) just keeping an eye open for any holes in the execution, you know how we do.
An alchemist who somehow melees with his bomb and uses Broken Blade....... I don't know if that's ridiculous or just totally awesome.
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I picture the alchemist reaching for a fragile vial of fluid, crushing it in his hand and engulfing the hand in flames, noxious fumes, or whatever.
Probably let it apply for a number of rounds (equal to INT mod?) to allow for the difference in difficulty between hitting touch AC and regular AC and not hitting a splash area.