Ranger Advice, please!


Advice


So some of you may have noticed my other thread asking about what class would be a good fit given my party composition. Well I've decided on a ranger. As for what style? Why a switch-hitter of course! Clearly, nothing can go wrong with that. Now for the details:

- Level 9 entry with 28k gold to spend
- Elf with some racial traits swapped out. I'm thinking of getting the stealth one and the one that adds elemental resist of my choice. Also Elven curved blade
- Point buy is 23+2D6 because we're badasses in the setting that shall one day change the world. This will hopefully allow my choice of being an elf negligible in terms of stats.

Now with the above in mind I just have a few things to figure out. I want an animal companion, more specifically a wolf. However, I've never played a class that suddenly gets an animal companion and I'm wondering if it'd be more convenient to keep it medium sized when I hit 10. Admittedly the Wolf 7 upgrade is amazing in my eyes.

Also, I've read Treantmonk's guide and I was wondering if there was any neat feats that would be a credit to the switch-hitter beyond what he's listed from Core? Not that they're bad, I'm just curious if I missed anything.

As for the full build I'm thinking something along the lines of eventually riding the wolf around and full round shooting when I need too and possible mounted shenanigans. However, that'd be after 11 I guess? Mounted combat stuff seems to need a 3 feat investment though...Sorry for rambling :V


As a Ranger you could pick up the spell Reduce Animal for your companion when he becomes large: hours per level duration and gives the same penalties as Reduce Person, so that's -2 Str, +2 Dex, and then another +1 hit/AC. So he's still medium but a much more badass medium than he was.

In regards to mounted combat, if you are only planning on using it as a weapon firing platform, you don't need any special feats (not even Mounted Archery). You can still full attack if it moves, and it says you only take negatives if it is double moving or running. If you want to melee while riding than you need feats, but I can't help you there as I never looked into that route.

I haven't looked at Treantmonk's guide in a while so I'll see what feats he suggests and see if I have anything else to offer in a bit.


Thanks for the advice. The reduce animal spell does sound pretty awesome when using it on a wolf. I was curious though what are the things to know when mounting/dismounting an animal etc. Is it a move action? Also how does an animal companion operate on its own in combat? As a ranger would I use a free action to order it to attack and then move in? How is it controlled? Do I maintain control or does the DM?


Mounting/dismounting is a move action, or a free with a DC 20 ride check (though you need to have an available move to try it and if you fail it uses your move).

Under the Ride skill it says it is DC 10 free action to have your mount attack. If you aren't riding you would need to make a DC 10 Handle Animal check as a free action to get it to do what you want (as long as it has the appropriate trick learned). To be honest though I never saw a DM actually use those rules or the rules for tricks. Your DM might go RAW there, but in my experience you can probably be fine just controlling it however you see fit, especially because the DCs are trivial.


Alright, fair enough. But man all those level 3 spells that I want to cast as a ranger. I think I'll have to load up on a load of pearls of power 3 when I get the chance. Speaking of items I was thinking of just getting a +2 ECB, +1 adaptive compound bow, +2 Mithril Breast Plat, Efficient Quiver, and assorted protective items. Is there anything I'm missing out on?


Reduce Animal is a 2nd level Druid spell; you could look into maybe getting a wand of it and having a party member use it for you if you aren't investing ranks in UMD. Since you're going to be dropping your weapons a lot, maybe look at the Called weapon property.


That would certainly be tempting. I imagine I'd be dropping my bow a lot, and with my stat spread I think I could probably invest in UMD. How much would the wand cost? Sorry, only really played up to level 8 in pathfinder and as a fighter. Just starting another one, and this one I'm rejoining was the one I was a fighter in.


If I remember correctly wands are caster level (usually minimum for the spell, so 3) X spell level (2) x 750 = 4500 gold. It would have 50 charges and each charge would last 3 hours.

Also no need to apologize, you're using the Advice board for its intended purpose :p


True enough, but man things are going to add up fast! I need to figure out what's worth the cost. I mean if I get a called on my bow should I drop adaptable then? Getting a +4 or +5 str compound bow would save me 500 gold and keep costs down I guess?


Adaptive is nice just because it simplifies things, but you could do without and if you wanted Called it would save you a lot more than 500 gold. A +2 weapon like your +1 Adaptive costs 8k base (bonus squared x 2000) as opposed to a plain +1 bow with composite which would be around 2400 or 2500. If you wanted Called and composite 4 or 5 it would be around 8400 or 8500 gold, which is still much less than a +1 Called Adaptive which would be 18,000.


Ah, that's fair enough. I think I will most likely do that then. I don't think the wand is essential right off the bat. So besides the weapons listed, and the swapped out bow, is there anything else I should consider? Does my animal companion require any items?


I never really used an animal companion, so I can't really give you much advice there. Maybe give it some armor if it takes the feat for proficiency, but I wouldn't prioritize magical gear for it. An Amulet of Mighty Fists would come in handy for some animal companions, but those are expensive and its even worse because a Wolf only has one bite attack.


Something you may want to consider, since you are going to be using an Elven Curve Blade, you could drop your STR considerably, raise your DEX through the roof and finesse the Curve Blade. Add Agile to the sword. This will drop your damage to your bow, but you'll hit a lot more often (especially with secondary attacks). Your Sword will cost a bit more (cost of Agile) but the damage will be the same (you can still use power attack as long as you keep STR at 13 or higher).


Hmm that is true. In regards to feats. I suppose I should just get the wolf the overrun tree and then whatever I'd prefer if I intend to use it as my running people over machine?


Overrun seems kinda awful... you can move through their square and maybe knock them prone with that, or your Wolf can just use its bite and get a free trip attempt if it hits. Also since we were talking about how large size might be an issue, check out Narrow Frame. Looks like that would help your companion in dungeons, especially if you didn't want to bother with Reduce Animal.

Also check out Animal Companion Archetypes. I kinda like the Bodyguard one. Combat Patrol + Combat Reflexes + Trip on the bite AoO could be interesting.


Hmm my issue with getting agile is that I can't add 1.5 my mod to damage. If that were the case wouldn't I be better wielding just a single weapon? It is something to consider though, and I will do so.

IN regards to the animal companion stuff. Narrow Frame seems awesome. The bodyguard archetype seems equally interesting. Enough that I will probably do this and see how it goes. So what feats do people normally get for their companions then? Make it a combat beast, etc etc?


If you went Agile you would still get the PA bonus damage for using a two hander, so that's something.

A wolf only has the one attack so its not really going to stay competitive in the damage compartment for long, so I'd try to use it as a flank buddy that can debuff a bit by keeping enemies on their ass. As I said I'd go Combat Patrol and Combat Reflexes. Besides that I'd consider Power Attack, Light Armor Proficiency, and Narrow Frame once he gets large size. Weapon Focus couldn't hurt either.


Are the improved natural armor/weapon feats worth it? And yes, I suppose it's true that I'd get the PA bonus damage. Is it worth missing out on strength to be last MAD?

So it looks like the build is going to be a switch-hitter that may or may not focus on Dex and use an agile weapon. My animal companion will just be a flanker and occasional mount where I can shoot from and be a huge jerk. So that would probably fill up my planning to...11 I guess? From there on I suppose the wise thing to do would be to get the critical feats since I'll be using a ECB as my main weapon and...um...faff about?

Would that fill up my planning until 20? Not sure what else to get at that point. I don't need much in the way of shooting. Perhaps a combat style at some point?


Also wouldn't getting an agile weapon increase my feat usage for two handed weapons by requiring me to get weapon finesse?


For all 'standard' Rangers, I reccomend the Infiltrator archetype. Take a look at it.


Those are certainly some interesting benefits. I'd have to think on it though. The +2 to natural armor is enticing, as well as being able to boost one of your saves. Is it really worth it though? I haven't been playing in PF long so I don't know if Favored Terrain comes into play a lot or not.


Sgt.Sunshine wrote:
Those are certainly some interesting benefits. I'd have to think on it though. The +2 to natural armor is enticing, as well as being able to boost one of your saves. Is it really worth it though? I haven't been playing in PF long so I don't know if Favored Terrain comes into play a lot or not.

I've gotten very little use out of favored terrain, but for my Dwarven TWF Ranger with a Wolf companion, I was able to add these abilities as an infiltrator:

3rd level - Fast Movement (Goblin)
8th level - Resist Fire: 10 (Giant), Resist Cold: 10 (Giant)
13th level - Lunge (Dragon), Resist Electricity: 10 (Giant)
18th level - Swim 15 (Animal), Climb 15 (Animal)

Mileage may vary of course, but that's a lot more utility there than favored terrain offers in my opinion.


That's certainly fair enough. Just to clarify when you activate your adaptation you only get one of the bonuses or do you get all the ones you've accumulated?


chaoseffect wrote:
...you could do without [Adaptive] ... it would save you a lot more than 500 gold. A +2 weapon like your +1 Adaptive costs 8k base (bonus squared x 2000) as opposed to a plain +1 bow with composite which would be around 2400 or 2500. If you wanted Called and composite 4 or 5 it would be around 8400 or 8500 gold, which is still much less than a +1 Called Adaptive which would be 18,000.

Ignore this. Adaptive adds a flat 1,000 to a bow’s cost, no matter what other enchantments are on the bow.

It’s not worth saving 500g on your bow by getting a compound bow instead of one with the Adaptive enchantment. Buffs will raise your strength bonus in the field, and you want a bow that lets you take advantage of that. There’s also a small chance of you being hit with a curse or something else that reduces your strength score, which would prevent you from using your compound bow. 500g is really small potatoes at level 9--don’t go cheap on your most important piece of gear.

If your wolf is primarily for movement, consider the feat Stable Gallop. Iron Will is excellent for animal companions, Great Fortitude is nearly as good, and Lightning Reflexes is nice. The Spring Attack feat chain (Dodge->Mobility->Spring Attack) will pay off when your wolf is in a combat where it can trip easily--i.e. it is not reduced in size and the opponent is a human-sized biped.


Sgt.Sunshine wrote:
That's certainly fair enough. Just to clarify when you activate your adaptation you only get one of the bonuses or do you get all the ones you've accumulated?

You select one ability/bonus/feat at a time and activate it in 10 minute increments. You get 10 minutes of use per Ranger level.

The above was the Dwarven Ranger I used in Rise of the Runelords, and the favored enemies that seemed appropriate for the character lended itself to some really useful Infiltrator abilities. Right now I'm designing a Dwarven Ranger for someone else to use in a Jade Regent campaign, and the favored enemies (Goblin, Human, Undead, Evil Outsider) offer less useful abilities in my opnion, so I'm probably going to build it as a straight Ranger with the standard favored terrain bonuses.

So, my advice is that if you're pre-planning your build, decide on your favored enemies first and then look to see if you're getting what you think is value from the Infiltrator options available... if they don't blow your skirt up, then stick with Favored Terrain.


Well from what I know about the party the travels are fairly random, but I feel like aberrations, evil outsider, undead, and something else will probably be the common foes. Also, it just occurred to me that I'm not sure where to take my feats now. Looking at the options there just seems to be...a lot for a switch hitter. Now obviously some of the higher ones are reserved for the critical chain feats, but currently I have one feat slot open at 7th that I'm not sure what to fill with. Currently my feats are as follows:

1) Power Attack
Style: Rapid Shot
3) Quick Draw
5) Deadly Aim
Style: Many Shot
7)
9) Improved Critical (ECB)

Any suggestions, or should I just get something general like toughness or dodge? Perhaps Cleave?


Keep Calm and Carrion wrote:
Ignore this. Adaptive adds a flat 1,000 to a bow’s cost, no matter what other enchantments are on the bow.

And I always thought it was a +1 enhancement. Wow, sorry about that and the wrong information I gave.


No worries, so that'll help cut costs. I feel like I'll be starting with some major stuff then and other minor items will have to be picked up later. Like rings of protection and an amulet of natural armor.

The Exchange

Get potions of blur... they are amazing and let you walk the battlenfield and shoot in melee range without provoking aoos.

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