Elysian Bronze Composite Longbow

[The Evil DM]

My wanted to create a magical Elysian Bronze composite longbow. would this weapon be legal in PFS?
Thanks.

[Caderyn]

The Material itself is legal however there are a few issues with your plan

1. Bows are made primarily of wood hence they receive no special benefit from being made from special metals, they can only receive the properties of special woods (like darkwood or greenwood) or a material that says it can be used for wooden items.

2. Bows do not provide any special effects based on their materials to their ammunition hence you would need Elysian bronze arrows to receive the damage bonus vs monstrous humanoids and magical beasts.

[SCPRedMage]

You could buy elsian bronze ammo, but at 401gp for twenty arrows, it's a little expensive.

Definitely a good idea for when you get to the point when you have the money to spend on extra consumables, for that little extra "oomph" against magical beasts and monstrous humanoids.

[The Evil DM]

Thanks for the help!

[Xot]

Would Elysian Bronze ammo be effective?
You only get a damage bonus AFTER you do damage,with it the first time, at witch point ammunition is expended.

Thrown weapons would certainly work, and the returning property would be very valuable... but I'm thinking ammunition wouldn't work.

[LazarX]

The Evil DM wrote:

My wanted to create a magical Elysian Bronze composite longbow. would this weapon be legal in PFS?

Thanks.

Really not much of a point in creating a bow that won't bend. :)

[nosig]

LazarX wrote:

The Evil DM wrote:

My wanted to create a magical Elysian Bronze composite longbow. would this weapon be legal in PFS?

Thanks.

Really not much of a point in creating a bow that won't bend. :)

realizing that I own a real life crossbow with a steel bow...

and then there are all those metal springs...

Bronze will flex - not as much as steel, but it does flex. (real bronze would make a very poor bow or spring, but Elysian Bronze? I have no idea...)

[LazarX]

nosig wrote:

LazarX wrote:

The Evil DM wrote:

My wanted to create a magical Elysian Bronze composite longbow. would this weapon be legal in PFS?

Thanks.

Really not much of a point in creating a bow that won't bend. :)

realizing that I own a real life crossbow with a steel bow...

and then there are all those metal springs...

Bronze will flex - not as much as steel, but it does flex. (real bronze would make a very poor bow or spring, but Elysian Bronze? I have no idea...)

Keep in mind we're talking midieval metallurgy, not modern pullies and steel alloys specifically made to be strong with just the right amount of flexibility, as opposed to Bronze which would just break.

[nosig]

LazarX wrote:

nosig wrote:

LazarX wrote:

The Evil DM wrote:

My wanted to create a magical Elysian Bronze composite longbow. would this weapon be legal in PFS?

Thanks.

Really not much of a point in creating a bow that won't bend. :)

realizing that I own a real life crossbow with a steel bow...

and then there are all those metal springs...

Bronze will flex - not as much as steel, but it does flex. (real bronze would make a very poor bow or spring, but Elysian Bronze? I have no idea...)

Keep in mind we're talking midieval metallurgy, not modern pullies and steel alloys specifically made to be strong with just the right amount of flexibility, as opposed to Bronze which would just break.

well... no.

I am talking about fantasy metallugy that can craft clockwork men, Adamantine, Mithral, and Elysian Bronze.

Even midieval metallurgy could do wonders that we have difficulty duplicating. Katanas for one.

But this is FANTASY. Metal bow? heck, I know we can make them without MAGIC, who's to say what we can make with magic too.

The first statement was:
"Really not much of a point in creating a bow that won't bend."

I pointed out that metal bows actually do bend. That's all.

;)

[Nicholas mejia]

Well it does not say you can or can't do it. And although bronze would break, What about Elysian Bronze?

[Todd Lower]

Nicholas mejia wrote:

Well it does not say you can or can't do it. And although bronze would break, What about Elysian Bronze?

I think that the rules are pretty straight forward. If the item is not predominately made of metal you can't get the benefit from the special material. Not that you can't make it (I wonder what it would weigh?) but that you can't get any special benefits. Maybe just for flavor?

[✴Angelica✴]

Elysian Bronze wrote:

A weapon made of Elysian bronze adds a +1 bonus on weapon damage rolls against magical beasts and monstrous humanoids; this damage is multiplied on a critical hit. After a creature uses an Elysian bronze weapon to deal damage to a magical beast or monstrous humanoid, the wielder gains a +1 bonus on attack rolls against that specific creature type (for example, against chimeras, not all magical beasts) for the next 24 hours, or until the weapon deals damage to a different kind of magical beast or monstrous humanoid.

An arrow fired from a bow would certainly get the +1 to damage, but I would not think the character firing that bow would get the additional +1 bonus on attack rolls. If that same arrow was being used over and over again as an improvised melee weapon, then it could get both damage and attack bonuses. But firing separate arrows is effectively using a different Elysian Bronze weapon each time.

[Sir_Wulf]

While steel bows actually do date back to the Middle Ages (they made some in India), Pathfinder's bow descriptions assume a bow made of wood (perhaps with horn and sinew for composite bows). As such, special metals would not be appropriate for organized play.

[Nefreet]

Also, the description of a longbow is, "At almost 5 feet in height, a longbow is made up of one solid piece of carefully curved wood."

EDIT: Ninja'd

[SCPRedMage]

Xot wrote:

Would Elysian Bronze ammo be effective?

You only get a damage bonus AFTER you do damage,with it the first time, at witch point ammunition is expended.

Thrown weapons would certainly work, and the returning property would be very valuable... but I'm thinking ammunition wouldn't work.

Incorrect.

Elysian Broze wrote:

A weapon made of Elysian bronze adds a +1 bonus on weapon damage rolls against magical beasts and monstrous humanoids; this damage is multiplied on a critical hit. After a creature uses an Elysian bronze weapon to deal damage to a magical beast or monstrous humanoid, the wielder gains a +1 bonus on attack rolls against that specific creature type (for example, against chimeras, not all magical beasts) for the next 24 hours, or until the weapon deals damage to a different kind of magical beast or monstrous humanoid.

It ALWAYS gets the damage bonus against magical beasts or monstrous humanoids, and provides the attack bonus after the first hit.

Of course, one could make the argument that it states that it gives the WIELDER a bonus to hit, and never specifies that it has to be with that weapon, so... yeah. Either way, the bonus damage definitely applies.

Also, keep in mind that if they list a price for ammunition, then they likely intended for it to work with ammunition.

[thistledown]

I've run into the same ammo question with my gunslinger. Do I get the part 2 bonus on subsequent shots? (assuming each shot is Elysian Bronze).

So far, every judge I've asked has allowed it, but I'm prepared for table variation on it and ask before each game.

Nosig, the word is "Prod". Correct term for the bow part of a crossbow. But yes, metal prods are nice. Weapon materials are a bit odd though. They state that if a weapon is only partly metal and partly wood, you go with what the majority of the weapon is. Yet with ammo, you can apply metals to the heads (obviously not the majority).

A crossbow may have a metal prod, but would often have a wooden stock. In which case, there's probably more wood than metal (you could have a metal stock too though)

[Nicholas mejia]

And does it bestow the power upon the ammunition? Because its an Elysian Bronze bow not Elysian Bronze arrows.

[Nefreet]

You cannot construct a bow out of Elysian Bronze, although you could probably make a gun out of it. But just as a silver gun doesn't impart any special ability to its lead bullets to overcome DR/silver, an Elysian Bronze gun would do nothing more than look pretty.

Best bet is to get Elysian Bronze arrows, and break them out anytime you see something that looks like a Magical Beast.

[nosig]

thistledown wrote:

I've run into the same ammo question with my gunslinger. Do I get the part 2 bonus on subsequent shots? (assuming each shot is Elysian Bronze).

So far, every judge I've asked has allowed it, but I'm prepared for table variation on it and ask before each game.

Nosig, the word is "Prod". Correct term for the bow part of a crossbow. But yes, metal prods are nice. Weapon materials are a bit odd though. They state that if a weapon is only partly metal and partly wood, you go with what the majority of the weapon is. Yet with ammo, you can apply metals to the heads (obviously not the majority).

A crossbow may have a metal prod, but would often have a wooden stock. In which case, there's probably more wood than metal (you could have a metal stock too though)

for the "Prod" - yeah, I've also heard it called a Lath and a Bowstave but I thought "Bow" would be easier for most people to understand (and my wife says I often get a little to "techie" with historical weapon terms).

And, yes, my crossbow has a wooden tiller/stock - but I have seen them built with an all metal frame.