If indeed you can identify the original hirer of assassins it also provides a whole new avenue of causing trouble.
1) member of organisation c creates alt
2) gets alt into organisation b
3) hires assassin to kill high ranking member of organisation A
4) chortle madly as org A declares war against org b
Goblin Squad Member
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The 'Best' Assassins will be the self-sufficient ones. No trail of suppliers, informants and middle-men for would-be sleuths to lean on.
So then, if neither the assassin nor the employer ever spill the beans, should there have to be a way to discover the employer?
Where is the mystery? The angst of picking which enemy did it? The fun when you retaliate against the wrong person?
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Goblin Squad Member
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It is a complete waste of time developing a contract system of the type you envisage. All it would mean is that those that want to issue an assassination contract use an alt to do so.
That is a very slippery slope. That sort of mental exercise can be applied to virtually every other type of meaningful confrontation in the game as well.
I am relatively sure that the content and mechanics are being designed with players that care about their characters in mind. I believe that the threat of throwaway alts should be left as an entirely different matter for the devs to tackle.
Unless you can stop people using alt's the whole system just becomes a waste of time. The risk and reward side is all between the assassin and his target.
Read: the whole game becomes a waste of time. As I said, probably not the right discussion for that issue.
If risk and reward exist solely between the assassin and the target, why would anyone issue a contract in the first place, excepting RPA. Of course the issuer is rewarded, the rewards are the consequences that the target would have to suffer if they are successfully assassinated.
You seem to be assuming that issuing an assassination order is a surefire thing it is not by a long shot, it is also likely to be expensive due to the need for items such as an assassins mask which aren't going to come free of charge. Most of the time the only time those being assassinated are likely to be the characters that rarely or never leave their settlement. Not people like mercenaries or bandits.
Most of what I have discussed has been the differences between a successful and a failed attempt. The whole carrying around your target thing? Only becomes an issue if you fail.. or get robbed.. on the job. ;)
I was not aware that a mask would need to be remade.
Disguise? Yes.
Mask? Only if it was destroyed/taken I would think.
We can probably agree that it is a likely expense either way.
The example you give of the expense needed to cover the assassination is not a single great constant. Obviously players will have to have access to a beginners mask (and they have detailed multiple tiers of mask abilities), once you cover the cost of a beginner's mask (which is not likely to be as prohibitive as one used for the precision and benefits needed in higher profile assassinations) then anyone can be your target.
In the Early Settlement Politics thread, assassination has been tossed around several times as an opportunity for retribution. If anything bandits are a highly likely target, having given such ample motive.
I think Bludd might take offense to your assumption that he is not worth targeting for assassination. ;)
I think it is fair to say that any means of killing another player deserves to be examined in all the circumstances it can be used.
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Goblin Squad Member
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It is an exercise in thought. I will give you that. Just seems like an over complication of a feature. Too much hassle to implement, too many workarounds.
If you want to find out who ordered you killed, take your best guess. Do it the hard way if you can't. There is no CSI that is really conclusive in this setting, except skills and spells. If they choose to make it possible that way, fine and dandy.
Making it a formula (with plug ins) to solve, will make every assassination crime solved. Bad move.
I agree that making it formulaic would be terrible. The fact remains that all sides of the equation need to remain equal. If someone can gain the benefit of the death of another by initiating that same death, there needs to be risk attached. Risk v reward is the big thing here. The assassin certainly has their share, the target is risking the assassination through whatever actions prompted it (excepting RPA, which we of course wish to discourage). If all there is to initiating an assassination is reward, or even a small fine in alignment, the likelihood that we will see RPA goes up substantially.
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Goblin Squad Member
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If indeed you can identify the original hirer of assassins it also provides a whole new avenue of causing trouble.
1) member of organisation c creates alt
2) gets alt into organisation b
3) hires assassin to kill high ranking member of organisation A
4) chortle madly as org A declares war against org b
I like the way you think! hahaha
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Goblin Squad Member
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An easy work-around is that you cannot be involved in an 'Official' Assassination against anyone who is a member of any Guild/Company/Charter that any of your characters are likewise members of.
Yes, there's an obvious work-around in getting somebody on a different account to hire the Assassin in your place, but it stops the immediate shenanigans.
And on the matter of the 'Self Sufficient' Assassin, consider that their 'self sufficiency' means that there are combat/assassination skills that will be skipped or lower level because they've taken up gathering and crafting skills to cut out the middle men. There's always a trade-off involved.
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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@Decius
I am a little confused, are you implying that if a person was discovered taking a hit out on a king, that there would not be political consequences?Likewise, is the assumption being made that only individuals who were somehow wronged (thus giving them probable cause) by this person would target them for assassination? In the instance of a king at least, there are a great number of other reasons that could motivate someone, not all of which would be even remotely apparent to the victim. It could be something the person did that they did not even realize gained them the ire of the issuer in the first place.
I'm saying that if the Character who created the Contract can be identified, then that Character will never be one against whom political consequences matter.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I have to agree with Decius, if it takes little more than some in-game mechanics to identify all of the players, then the first thing that's going to happen is all of the players are going to be level 1 alts, save for the target, and the assassin. And if the assassin can be identified, then it's going to suck to be an assassin.
Failure happens. Everyone makes mistakes, sometimes things happen that you couldn't account for. Maybe your target has dozens of bodyguards hidden nearby, and you didn't find them. Whatever, you died, you failed. Corpse destruction is nice, but I don't want to have to get replacement contracts, or take a rep hit because I failed an assassination. What I do want to do is pull up my frilly stockings, tighten my thong and go out and try again. With more knowledge.
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Goblin Squad Member
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If the target can be publicly identified then inevitably we will end up with people who watch the contracts to see who targets are. These people tip off the targets and assassination becomes much harder to pull off when the target is assigned extra guards. The most obvious counter to this is to make more contracts so as to make it more difficult to identify who the key target really is. More work for assassins I guess.
If the assassin is publicly known via a contracts tab then they have to remain in disguise with false names for long periods of time. Admittedly this is something that assassins should be good at anyways, but it does make it a pain if you're trying to remain anonymous. An assassin with a reputation but no known name has a certain appeal to it.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Decius @Axies
Okay.
Consequences really do not need to involve one-shot success/failure to the assassin. That was merely a means to establish consequences for the issuer, with a touch of responsibility for the assassin.
Just find something that fits the (consequences)(issuer + assassin) = (consequences)(target) model and I think we would be on the right track.
The contracts should not be publically browsable nightdrifter I full expect most assassin contracts to be offered only to specific individuals.
@Darcness most times it will be a lone assassin trying to take out someone in the targets own settlement. Aren't those odds in favour of the target enough?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Okay, fair enough if contracts are only offered to specific people. That presents other problems though.
Now who to offer it to? If one venture company (eg. Tony's for sake of argument) is the only company that everyone knows of doing assassinations then what happens when someone new tries to get into the business? Say for example a single independent assassin. I worry about the little guy not being able to ever compete with a well established company if no one ever offers them a contract. Healthy competition and all.
So the contract either has to be for specific people only (excluding the possibility of new assassins) or be publicly available (tipping off the target).
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Nightdrifter
I can see it now, new to the area, Axies the Collector looks to make a name for himself. He sets up a contract (disguised as someone else) on a big name player. He then accepts his own contract, and does the deed. Leaving some sort of evidence that he was the one holding the knife.
Or, you could join an assassin's guild, make a name for yourself, and then go solo. There are ways to get your name out there. Start a new company, whatever.
(For simplicity, you would just use your own alt to make that initial contract or two to start building your name.)
@Nightdrifter
In eve a contract can be
Public
To a specific corporation
To an individual
issuer chooses
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Goblin Squad Member
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An Assassin's Guild/Charter/Company would be a fearsome force indeed. Functioning with a large number of crafters and gatherers, and a small but elite force of Enforcers and Assassins to garner gold and infamy for the Group as a whole.
Oh God, I just had a Nerdgasm at the thought of an 'Assassin War' as three or four Assassin 'Guilds' go to war over turf-rights ...
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Goblin Squad Member
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Lots of Murder, Backstabbing and Betrayals, but few actual 'Assassinations'. Still, it would be very interesting to see how multiple large groups that focused upon stealthy killing techniques fought in large-scale battles?
Betraying each other's Hideouts to the 'Good' aligned factions, targeting previous Patrons of rival groups, hunting down each other's support teams.
Would it be kept quietly in the shadows, or spread out and involve hundreds of other players that would be manipulated or caught up in the chaos?
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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@Darcness most times it will be a lone assassin trying to take out someone in the targets own settlement. Aren't those odds in favour of the target enough?I think the risks for the assassin and the target are in line, just not for the issuer.
The issuer risks betrayal by the assassin, or non-completion of the mission.
Indeed it is quite possible that some of an assassins income may come from the following sort of scenario
Zenpagan offers the "Knife in the dark" 2000 bacon baps to assassinate Ezekiel Krows. The "knife in the dark" decides he doesn't want this contract and declines but mentions to Ezekiel Krows that a contract has been offered on his life and for a mere 500 bacon rolls he will divulge the person seeking to put out this contract
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Goblin Squad Member
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As always, you bring up a valid and interesting issue. Nice work Pagan. All I can say is that, I hope not to see too much of it or assassin contracts will become more scarce than they should be. Not many people want to be "tied" or "involved" with assassinations, especially if they are using it for a "promotion." so knowing there is a chance the info will be leaked or sold might be enough for them to seek assistance elsewhere.
All I can say, both in and out of character, The Goodfellow will take knowledge concerning assassination contracts to the grave. I can promise you that.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Indeed it is quite possible that some of an assassins income may come from the following sort of scenario
Zenpagan offers the "Knife in the dark" 2000 bacon baps to assassinate Ezekiel Krows. The "knife in the dark" decides he doesn't want this contract and declines but mentions to Ezekiel Krows that a contract has been offered on his life and for a mere 500 bacon rolls he will divulge the person seeking to put out this contract
Assassins will have to police themselves as a professional entity. Just as we bandits would "take care" of bandits that are exploiting the SAD system by offering the "1 copper piece SAD".
Such undercutting of our professions will be dealt with internally and quite brutally.
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Goblin Squad Member
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IMO the best way to handle anonymity is to code in several different types of contracts.
1> Direct contracts -- A contract from one unit <CC, PC, settlement etc.> to another unit to assassinate target. Anonymity of himself, target and assassin set by the contractor, where as they are to set to be reveled, hidden, or HUA <hidden until accpeted> and also who is eligible to accept. When looking at these contracts they show these 3 fields, either they are named or set to anonymous for each field seperately.
Contractor -- Scarlette
Target -- Bluddwolf
Assassin -- TBA
Contractor -- Anonymous or HUA
Target -- Anonymous or HUA
Assassin -- Anonymous or HUA
2> Third party contract -- A contract from one unit to a middleman to be subcontracted to a third party, where the contractor sets weather he himself or the middleman is anonymous, and who is eligible for the middleman, also who is eligible for third party, and the middleman sets weather the assassin is known or anonymous, and who is eligible to accept the contract.
Contracts or either open or closed. Open being available to any one, which can be accepted from a public source where all contracts are accepted. Standing there would not mark you as looking or setting an assassination contract. Closed contracts are contracted to a specific unit would be sent to specified unit by mail with either a named or anonymous sender depending on the setting the contractor chose. You can chose weather to accept or not with the given information. Payment is put into escrow so there's no need to know the any of the units involved.
This system leaves all options to the players. Accept or deny what you will. Personally, third party contracts would be awesome for companies like Tony's.