I wanted to "Magic Jar" our opponents but my party tends to kill everything in sight. So . . . inspiration! How about I animate their corpses with "Possess Object". A bit of 'Gentle Repose' and they are good for days. Next thought - well, they have lungs so can I (my character) operate these to talk? And if I can talk shall I be able to cast spells via my possessed corpse. Is this good or does 'Possess Object' not allow fine control?
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Possess ojbect is very specific:
You cannot speak or cast spells while possessing the object.
Even if it was a freshly dead corpse, there might be some physical manipulation problems, the type that allows knowledge (religion) checks to determine that its not quite moving like an undead would, but more like an animated object would via a knowledge (arcana) check.
On another thread, the player used their bluff skill in combo with a magic mouth spell.
Possess ojbect is very specific:
You cannot speak or cast spells while possessing the object.Even if it was a freshly dead corpse, there might be some physical manipulation problems, the type that allows knowledge (religion) checks to determine that its not quite moving like an undead would, but more like an animated object would via a knowledge (arcana) check.
On another thread, the player used their bluff skill in combo with a magic mouth spell.
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Yes, the you is specific. Specifically you, your body. It cannot speak and you cannot cast spells. The object you possess has no ability to cast spells. So you might be able to operate the lungs, albeit with some difficulty, but you still wouldn't have access to your spellcasting.
I'm seeing this spell come up often in discussions. I'm sure someone will build a guide at some point since there are uses for this spell. It just doesn't do what people want it to do.
Possess ojbect is very specific:
You cannot speak or cast spells while possessing the object.Even if it was a freshly dead corpse, there might be some physical manipulation problems, the type that allows knowledge (religion) checks to determine that its not quite moving like an undead would, but more like an animated object would via a knowledge (arcana) check.
On another thread, the player used their bluff skill in combo with a magic mouth spell.
.
Yes, the you is specific. Specifically you, your body. It cannot speak and you cannot cast spells. The object you possess has no ability to cast spells. So you might be able to operate the lungs, albeit with some difficulty, but you still wouldn't have access to your spellcasting.
I'm seeing this spell come up often in discussions. I'm sure someone will build a guide at some point since there are uses for this spell. It just doesn't do what people want it to do.
Relevant spell text
This spell functions as magic jar, except you transfer your mind to a single object, animating it as if using animate objects, except your mind controls the object as if it were your own body.
Animate object says the following
You imbue inanimate objects with mobility and a semblance of life. Each such animated object then immediately attacks whomever or whatever you initially designate.
Semblance means "to bear resemblance; similarity." Going in a similar path to what you said, I would argue that operating lungs along with the multitude of complex actions required to form words goes beyond just bearing a semblance of life.
As a side note the definition of "you" here is not quite so clear cut. You can easily reference your body, your mind/soul, or both. The spell does not say that "your body" cannot speak or cast spells, it simply says that "you" may not do so. In a strict interpretation of the rules you is everything related to your being unless otherwise stated. At the very least is your mind/soul or whatever contains your thoughts and personality, and at the very most includes your normal corporeal vessel.
Also if you look at the text of Magic Jar it specifically states that Spells and SLA's do not stay with the body of a creature, so in normal cases of casting Magic Jar your casting ability goes with you. Even if you used magic jar on a gelatinous cube you could still cast silent/still spells with no material components. Given that fact, I don't think it makes much sense to say that "you" refers to your mind when dealing with spells (as spells don't stay with a body), and that it refers to your body when dealing with speaking.
Given all of that I can't come up with any RAW argument that defines "you" as just your body, but especially not one that defines "you" as just your body when referring to the second half of the sentence, though if you have a quote or source from a book that would be great to see!
I should've reread Manic Jar it seems. I did not think you brought your spellcasting with you.
Wow. The Council of Liches in my campaign just became so much more dangerous.
I just don't like blanket statements that don't make sense. If you possess an item that is capable of speech then you still can't talk because [rules]. That's super annoying.
I should've reread Manic Jar it seems. I did not think you brought your spellcasting with you.
Wow. The Council of Liches in my campaign just became so much more dangerous.
I just don't like blanket statements that don't make sense. If you possess an item that is capable of speech then you still can't talk because [rules]. That's super annoying.
Actually, its debatable as to whether or not a lich can even use the Magic Jar spell. As a lich's soul resides in his/her phylactery, its unclear as to whether or not he/she has a soul to place in a large gem or crystal to use for possession of a creature.
Yeah magic jar is a pretty powerful spell, especially if you have time to set up a situation that results in you possessing a powerful creature.
I agree that sometimes the rules seem restrictive. In this particular case I think the restrictions are more meant to illustrate what degree of control you have over the possessed object. I honestly don't think the designers ever had it in mind that someone would possess a corpse, I mean what happens if someone casts Resurrection or even breath of life in the same round the player died, but after possessed object was cast.
On a side note, as a DM, I would definitely allow this as a houserule as it doesn't seem gamebreaking. I would however make it clear to the player that he/she is going to have some serious negative situational modifiers if he or she tries to convince anyone that the possessed corpse is alive.
Hmm. All good points. Good thing each school of magic is represented in their ranks. Some powerful living casters under their thrall could make the magic jar trick utterly cruel by possessing low level, but valued NPC's and having them sling spells at the party.
Yeah. Using possess object on a corpse just shouldn't be allowed. Thu should make a spell called possess corpse and address all these issues all at once.
Define "corpse".
... A dead body?
