lol.. whaat?
thats rediculous. Roleplaying decisions are up to the player. Your characters personality is up to you. I dont see the issue so... why exactly do they feel that humor falls outside the bounds of lawfulness?
Firstly, it depends on what kind of Lawful you're shooting for. Personal code and behavioral consistency, or strict adherence to actual laws?
If the latter, remember that just because you believe the world is best served by being ordered and lawful doesn't mean you can't appreciate the amusing foibles of the system. Indeed, those well-versed in the law are often the ones who know best where it breaks down in an amusing manner.
I play a female lawful neutral druid. She's just barely past her teen years and I play her as a playful, if naive, guardian of nature. She enjoys joking around with the rest of the party and has even been known to play a practical joke or two. Especially involving wildshape or summoning animals.
She has a dry wit and particularly enjoys a good pun or a witty line. She peppers her combat with quips intended to goad her enemies into actions.
She considers the law of nature to be the most fundamental law in the universe, and as such believes that evil is necessary to balance out good and provide conflict required for natural selection to weed out the weak or sick.
She also writes songs and plays with animals regularly.
I can picture, like...stuffy, prim humor. Setting a whoopie cushion down once a year, and quietly chuckling to yourself with your hand over your mouth. And then it's back to those TPS reports.
Looking for advice on how to create an RP persona for a Lawful Neutral character who has a sense of humor. Several of my group say it can't be done. Are they right?
The character in question is a LN halfling monk.
Two words for a monk with a sense of humor: BRUCE LEE.
Seriously he was a master martial artists with an INSANE personal code of ethics, honor and self discipline through the roof. (Lawful part of the nature).
And he was funny as hell when he wanted to be. Look at any of his movie fights and how he taunts and ridicules the enemy for his amusement.
Good and evil are the yin and yang, opposites of the scale of morality. True enlightenment and power only comes from the balanced, hence neutral, outlook.
Sounds like German humor.
Humor is important, but it has it's time and its place. While concentrting on an important task at hand, it is not the time. One the fighting is done and the negotiations are over, then it's time to lean back and have fun.
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Three words: Lord Havelock Vetinari.
Some may say that he has no sense of humour. He has, only a peculiar one.
Some may say that he's EVIL...^^ mah, just VERY VERY lawful-not stupid.
I...oh, geez. That is sad. o.O
Originally, I believe barbarians were of a lawful alignment because of their dedication to their tribal culture. The memory is fuzzy, so take that with a grain of salt.
Here are a few other interpretations:
- Dedication to One's Work. That is, a woodcrafter might believe in making the best product available. To do so would require a certain mental discipline and dedication. Likewise, a swordmaster could show a dedication to order through a dedication to his or her craft. This interpretation would focus on a strong inner discipline to the craft.
- Opposite of Individual-First. Chaotic can be seen as more individualistic. Therefore, a lawful focus could be seen as the opposite of that. Think of someone who specializes in community service. Or, think of a defense lawyer who specializes in the defense of the downtrodden. Or, a shaman who upholds his people and acts as a support and a friend to many. A midwife who upholds the tradition of care within her community.
- Admiration of a Cause. Admiration does not require blind faith. A dwarf may admire and support his clan, but see the problems within it. However, he wold work to change it from within. This could involve something as social as getting drunk with the clan chief (as part of what a dwarf considers social) and later talking over issues (because hey, now you're buddies).
In general, you might look at it like this:
In Pathfinder and traditional DnD, the aspects of Good, Law, Evil, Chaos have tangible effects. Creatures may be made of chaos' essence. They may infused with the essence of good so strongly that they become a metaphysical force against their opposite.
However, you might also suggest that it is a vast world as well. That is, these are /broad/ concepts who must encompass a variety of causes, deities, and life-forms. Much like everyday faith, where we can say "there is more than one way," we can look at these aspects in a similar way. A creature of destructive chaos has a different interpretation of the concept of Chaos, after all, than one of creative chaos. Both are "Chaos," but the overall concept of "Chaos" is allowed to be broad enough to encompass each.
What I'm trying to say, I suppose, is don't let yourself be tied down to "one version" of Law. Or, "one version" of Chaos. Let there be Law, and Chaos, but also variety inbetween.
For example, Chaos could encompass: selfish, individualistic, freedom, destructive, creationist, undisciplined, impassioned, lazy...
Likewise, Law could encompass: disciplined, selfless, supportive, dedicated, focused, narrow, civilization-expansionist, conservative, stuffy...
...and I'm sure posters here will add more...and likely disagree with some items on the list as well. However, encourage you to try the broad approach if it's possible, so long as the player can reasonably justify it.
Inside joke/humor at the expense of others is right, I think.
Something like "I'd be happy to stop contradicting you, just as soon as you start being right." (Bo Levar) could demonstrate a lighthearted attitude of a LN character.
Anyone can have a sense of humor. Different alignments might find different things funny, sure. But anyone that believes purely lawful characters have to be serious all the time doesn't understand alignment.
You can have two characters with the exact same alignment and their personalities will be totally different from each other. In fact I believe a Lawson Good character can be a jerk and an evil character could be fun to be around if played correctly. Think of all the stuffy lawmen who don't like anyone. Then think of the serial killers in history, many of whom were very friendly in social situations.
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There are a lot of ways to be LN without being a wet blanket. Personally, I have a very long-running(15 years, on and off) character that values the preservation of society above all (and basically neglects morality towards that end) and severely prioritizes his in-group, who tends to approach most situations from an attitude of sarcastic detachment. He uses a lot of dark humor about dire situations to defuse panic/worry in groups he's chosen to protect.
Heck, I once played a LN professional comedian. His underlying belief that the multiverse was ordered like a precision clockwork had nothing to do with his chosen profession, except maybe to poke some fun at the "clockmaker" at times.
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I find this entire discussion enlightening about the expectations others seem to have. I don't see alignment as a guide to personality, but as a guide to actions. I can't think of any alignment that I could not play with just about any personality if I wanted to.
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I've got a lawful neutral monk myself as well.. Most of the time he complains about how things are difficult and tries to be very lazy and the like. He is a flowing monk after all, so, his personal code is to go with the flow of things.
In combat he taunts enemies all the time, acting at though he didn't dodge their attacks, but that they suck so much..
"Oi.. I thought you were like the kings guard or something...Why are you swinging your sword around like that..? Oh.. you sat down, thats good.. you might hurt yourself."
"Oh.. you fell.. maybe you should keep your shoes tied?"
"Ah man, you stabbed your friend.. could you like.. go back and train after getting your friend healed?"
His humor is mostly dead pan type of stuff, some of it similar to Emo's stick.
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Geez, people really think lawful = humorless...
I am not sure what that says about our society.... nothing good I'm afraid.
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Looking for advice on how to create an RP persona for a Lawful Neutral character who has a sense of humor. Several of my group say it can't be done. Are they right?
The character in question is a LN halfling monk.
Most of the lawyers I know have excellent senses of humor. Viewing systems as important, and believing that bad rules should be changed rather than simply broken isn't mutually exclusive with being able to see absurdity and find it funny. :-)
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Lawful neutral humor? just make him a stand up comedian. Make him follow a strict performance routine. Having any job requires some degree of lawfulness, so make his job be joke teller. Or make him a lawyer, their the biggest joke I've ever seen!*
*no offense is intended to any attorney who may read this post. Just a common joke.
As noted, alignment has nothing to do with personality. It's a philosophy to existence. While he may seek to live by a code, he could be full of bad jokes, puns, and even a source of irritating one-liners.
This. So much this. Lawful characters are not universally sticks in the mud, not even *gasp* Paladins.
But seriously -- Lawfuls make the BEST "straight (wo)men" for TEAM HUMOR -- which is an inherently lawful approach to being funny. TEAMWORK!
I agree with Cheeseweasel, and if you're going to take anyone's advice on humor, it should be from someone named "Cheeseweasel"!
Many of the most famous comedy duos of all time are made up of a goofball and a straight man. They're just playing roles, of course, but in Pathfinder terms the goofball is chaotic while the straight man is lawful.
Abbot of Abbot & Costello
Teller of Penn & Teller
Laurel of Laurel & Hardy
Jeeves of Jeeves & Wooster
Alfred of Batman & Alfred (I know they're not primarily a comedy duo, but Alfred is hilarious!)
A double act, also known as a comedy duo, is a comic pairing in which humor is derived from the uneven relationship between two partners, usually of the same gender, age, ethnic origin and profession, but drastically different personalities or behavior. Often one of the duo members, the straight man, feed, dead wood, or stooge is portrayed as reasonable and serious, and the other one, the funny man, banana man or comic is portrayed as funny, less educated or less intelligent, silly, or unorthodox. If the audience identifies primarily with one character, the other is often referred to as a comic foil. The term feed comes from the way a straight man will set up jokes for—or "feed" them to—his partner.
Despite the names given to the roles, the "straight man" need not be humorless, and it is not always the comic who provides the act's humor. Sometimes, it is the straight man who gets the laughs through his or her sarcastic reactions to the comic's antics, as was often the case with Stewart Lee's deadpan, reasoned reactions to Richard Herring's more ridiculous antics in their pairing. Where the "straight man" serves no personal comic purpose but acts as a device to make the "comic" look good, he is known as a "stooge". This is sometimes considered a derogatory term. Most often, however, the humor in a double act comes from the way the two personalities play off each other rather than the individuals themselves; in many successful acts the roles are interchangeable.
Also, instead of trying to make a character funny based on his alignment, you just ignore his alignment altogether when it comes to comedy.
I find this entire discussion enlightening about the expectations others seem to have. I don't see alignment as a guide to personality, but as a guide to actions. I can't think of any alignment that I could not play with just about any personality if I wanted to.
This indeed. It is best to see alignment like this. It makes tracking alignment (a la Ultimate Campaign or any other alignment system) feasible. If your character is LN, it is because they have done more lawful acts than chaotic ones, nothing more. Of course, if you have an alignment subtype, then that's another story, but its not often that PCs do.
As to whether humor is inherently chaotic?
Here's what Law and Chaos mean to me: Law means the measured approach, the long game, and taking as many outcomes into account as is feasibly possible. Chaos is spur of the moment, spontaneous, and damn the details.
While much of humor is in the spontaneity, people will often remember the jokes with the big setups longer. In fact, a lawful comedian will likely be more successful over a longer time, unless his chaotic competitor is very well talented.
So no, humor isn't inherently chaotic, nor is it inherently lawful. It's just a facet of life. In most games, it wouldn't even be a major part, either, so any effect your brand of humor would have on your overall alignment would be slim to none.
"She was aware she didn't have a sense of humor, and tended to vaguely distrust those who did." Shira Calpurnia Lucina, Arbitor Senioris, Hydraphur
I find this entire discussion enlightening about the expectations others seem to have. I don't see alignment as a guide to personality, but as a guide to actions. I can't think of any alignment that I could not play with just about any personality if I wanted to.This indeed. It is best to see alignment like this. It makes tracking alignment (a la Ultimate Campaign or any other alignment system) feasible. If your character is LN, it is because they have done more lawful acts than chaotic ones, nothing more. Of course, if you have an alignment subtype, then that's another story, but its not often that PCs do.
As to whether humor is inherently chaotic?
Here's what Law and Chaos mean to me: Law means the measured approach, the long game, and taking as many outcomes into account as is feasibly possible. Chaos is spur of the moment, spontaneous, and damn the details.
While much of humor is in the spontaneity, people will often remember the jokes with the big setups longer. In fact, a lawful comedian will likely be more successful over a longer time, unless his chaotic competitor is very well talented.
So no, humor isn't inherently chaotic, nor is it inherently lawful. It's just a facet of life. In most games, it wouldn't even be a major part, either, so any effect your brand of humor would have on your overall alignment would be slim to none.
This is exactly right.
I play a lot of LN characters; currently playing a LN Half-Golem Incarnate/Totemist. My character is literally half-machine, and still has a sense of humor.
Being "lawful" can take many forms, but really, it's all about your character's attitude and outlook. Personal interaction and charisma are entirely dependent on your actual character's personality, not alignment.
Unless you are purposely building your character to be some sort of iron fist of Justice, there is really nothing stopping your character from being funny, witty, personable. If you want their lawful, disciplined attitude to show through in conversation, then I suggest the above mentioned 007 descriptions(good call, Charlie Bell) of witty, dry humor, and sarcasm. But, careful with the sarcasm, try to keep a humorous angle on it.
I have played a couple Lawful characters who were so deficient in the humor department that the deficiency itself was humorous, but this is not a characteristic of alignment. There seems to be a fairly common misperception that Lawful must = "Boring, no fun", and Chaotic automatically = "Spontaneous, life of the party". Alignment doesn't work that way. I don't even want to try to estimate how many threads exist on the internet attempting to explain how it does work, but when it comes to Lawful and Chaotic alignments, the way I explain the measure of their difference is in the willingness to accept rules and responsibilities imposed from some outside source. That doesn't really have anything to do with how funny you are.
The LG paladin in the party might sit around the fireside cracking jokes and singing songs with the CN bard. In fact, this might well be the primary way they bond. Meanwhile, the grim CG ranger may be silently brooding up in a nearby tree, dreaming of revenge on all orcs for her slaughtered village.
All that said, one way to play a character who is funny in a stereotypically Lawful sort of way would be to have him make jokes about guilt trips imposed by his mother and anecdotes notable for showing how neurotic he is.