I am building a Dwarven Ranger for Rise of the Rune Lords. I decided that I would use the Two-handed weapon style. I was going to use a Great Axe. A friend of mine (also playing) said I should get an oversized Dwarven Waraxe. I would be at a -2 with it, but once someone cast enlarge on me I would be able to use it one handed.
My question is how available such a weapon is?
I can think of all kinds of reasons why not, but I'm not the GM and wanted to hear what people here had to say about it.
Enlarge should also enlarge your weapon, so you don't need to bother with getting a larger one. Still a cool idea, though.
The way we did that with an oversized weapon was to put it down. Then get enlarged and pick it up.
You could of found the weapon, it could have been a large creatures weapon who died long ago and you found it as a young dwarf. the weapon might have even been made by dwarves. It is all up to how you want to explain where you found it. If you have it from character creation then it is as available as you make it.
I currently play a Dwarf Paladin that rocks a large Dwarven Waraxe, and its great. The wizard learned enlarge person and things just got more awesome. Keep it as a 2 Hander, its well worth the penalty to hit. As you level you'll find that the penalty isn't so bad.
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As you level you'll find that the penalty isn't so bad.
Although it's hard to make your brain see it, the opposite is actually true. The higher level you are, the more damage from sources other than the weapon dice you'll have. That actually makes the penalty more significant.
Remember, damage per round is (in a simplified sense, ignoring crits) a function of hit chance times average damage on a hit. When you lower hit chance, you lower your dpr by an amount based on how much damage you deal on a hit already, whereas adding damage increases your dpr by an amount based on your hit chance.
A simple example. Let's say you have Power Attack, 18 Strength, and you are choosing between using an Earthbreaker or a large Dwarven Waraxe in two hands. That's 2d6+9 (16 average) vs. 2d8+9 (18 average) damage.
The Waraxe deals +2 average damage on a hit for a -2 to hit. Is it worth it?
Let's see--if you have a 75% chance to hit base, let's say, the Earthbreaker is dealing .75(16)=12dpr while the Waraxe is dealing .65(18)=11.7. Oops, not worth it! But let's pretend it actually is! .3 isn't that far off, right?
What happens as you level up? You're adding more damage, of course. By level 8, you probably have a +2 weapon, 4 more Strength (from leveling and a belt), and your power attack is dealing 6 more damage, for a total of 2dX+20. Which is better now? Lets assume your accuracy stays pretty close:
.75(27)=20.25dpr vs. .65(29)=18.85dpr
That's 1.4 off, almost 5 times worse, relatively speaking, as it was at level 1.
Not only did it stay not worth it, it got, well, more not worth it because the damage you added from upsizing the weapon stayed the same, but the accuracy penalty hurt more because you added additional damage.
I guess the short answer is this:
Accuracy > Static Mods > Damage Dice
Don't be fooled by a big handful of dice.
or play what you like. XD
Of course, but you need to know what you like.
If you like the image in your head of using a really big weapon (and can't abide reflavoring a medium weapon to look really big), then by all means, use an oversized waraxe. If you really like d8s, totally use a waraxe. If you don't mind missing as long as you hit harder when you do land a blow, again, oversized is the way to go.
If what you like is to do lots of damage, then you want to stick to weapons without an accuracy penalty.
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In terms of 'buying' equipment for a first level PC: the PC doesn't start with nothing but his free outfit then go down the shops and buy all his gear in one go.
His starting wealth is a calculation of how much his assets are worth.
If you found a large dwarven waraxe before play starts, then you need to know how much it would be worth as an asset, so you use the weapons tables to find out the price of a DW then modify the price for it being made for a large creature.
But it doesn't mean you bought it in the 'Big & Tall' shop! It doesn't mean you paid coin for it at all. It's just worth x gp as part of your starting wealth/assets.
In my mind, it seems odd that Dwarves would make oversized weapons made specific for Dwarves. My initial question was about availability, people say just come up with a good story and your good. This says to me that the large war axes specifically don't exist and I would need to have a story.
In all the games I have played with this GM we have had to buy all of our equipment.
Given all the above, Is the large war axe an agreement between player and gm?
Also, looking at MPL's post and understanding some of it, I am not set in stone for the War Axe. At the beginning I started out with a Great Axe. I have even considered TWF and the Urgrosh
I would be at a -2 with it, but once someone cast enlarge on me I would be able to use it one handed.-->
Enlarge should also enlarge your weapon (...)
Perhaps you should take the (Barbarian Archetyp) - this could be what you are searching for ;-)
At 2nd level, a titan mauler may choose to wield a two-handed melee weapon in one hand with a –2 penalty on attack rolls while doing so. The weapon must be appropriately sized for her, and it is treated as one-handed when determining the effect of Power Attack, Strength bonus to damage, and the like.
This ability replaces uncanny dodge.
At 3rd level, a titan mauler becomes skilled in the use of massive weapons looted from her titanic foes. The attack roll penalty for using weapons too large for her size is reduced by 1, and this reduction increases by 1 for every three levels beyond 3rd (to a minimum of 0).
This ability replaces trap sense.
I'm probably a bit cloudy on why you need an over-sized dwarven waraxe rather than just a regular-sized dwarven waraxe. It doesn't sound as if it's the increased size damage that matters to you since you just mention dropping the enlarged version to keep it the same size.
As I said in the OP, this was not my idea it was my friend's. This gave rise to the question of can Dwarves have such large weapons. The group's answer seems to say 'Why not?' and 'make up your own story'.
I was thinking of big damage because I am one of the group's Meat Shields (of a sort). I just have trouble (unlike others) of wrapping my brain around the idea of buying an oversized Dwarven Waraxe. In my mind, it has to have a "stamp" or some such that it was made by Dwarves, not made by Kenders (or Golarion's equivalent).
Perhaps you should take the Titan Mauler (Barbarian Archetyp) - this could be what you are searching for ;-)
YES!! That's exactly it!.......not.
This character is Ranger all the way. I have a feeling that I knew what I wanted, I just needed some information.I wanted a Two Handed weapon, but without a fantastical story on my part I am not going to get one. (On the other hand, fantastical is what this game is all about! The old rule of thumb comes up 'talk to your GM'. I'd have to do that if I really thought that the oversized weapon was worth it. If I got a normal one then somehow enlarged it and then got permanency cast on it, I would have the oversized weapon. However it would be normal. I imagine a magic axe would cost even more for all of that. That is the only way I could see my dwarf getting a waraxe bigger. Maybe I will carry one around for the right opportunity.
I wanted a Two Handed weapon, but without a fantastical story on my part I am not going to get one.
"I go to the smith and buy a medium-sized (chose one: Falchion, Scythe, Greatsword, Earthbreaker, Greataxe)."
That doesn't sound all that fantastical.
I wanted a Two Handed weapon, but without a fantastical story on my part I am not going to get one."I go to the smith and buy a medium-sized (chose one: Falchion, Scythe, Greatsword, Earthbreaker, Greataxe)."
That doesn't sound all that fantastical.
I'm assuming you read the rest of the paragraph, so why waste quoting the first sentence? It is clear that I was referring to the War Axe. I have been referring to one weapon in this thread all the time.
But as I continue to say people simply need to read the OP and see that I was going to get a Greataxe when the Oversized Waraxe suggestion started.
Since I no longer want the Oversized WEAPON, I will have no problem getting the Greataxe.
Thank you.
Why wouldn't dwarves make oversized weapons? They have casters who know Enlarge Person too, and can make Enlarge Person potions, and so forth.
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I am building a Dwarven Ranger for Rise of the Rune Lords. I decided that I would use the Two-handed weapon style. I was going to use a Great Axe. A friend of mine (also playing) said I should get an oversized Dwarven Waraxe. I would be at a -2 with it, but once someone cast enlarge on me I would be able to use it one handed.
My question is how available such a weapon is?I can think of all kinds of reasons why not, but I'm not the GM and wanted to hear what people here had to say about it.
Wouldn't Enlarge make the weapon size go up as well? You would be Large and the Great Axe would be Huge.
I'd go for that if it can happen! I'm a little rusty on enlargment ruling though :T
As I said in the OP, this was not my idea it was my friend's.
Perhaps you should take the Titan Mauler (Barbarian Archetyp) - this could be what you are searching for ;-)
YES!! That's exactly it!.......not.
This character is Ranger all the way.
OK, you know what you want - you want to play a "ranger"
But there are many kind of rangers like the wild stalker (with rage) ... so sometimes take a look or make a dip in other classes to build your own ranger concept.
Oversized weapoms aren't worth it nirmally, as shown in a previous post.
However...
If you take an oversized waraxe. Enlarge person. Lead blades. And greater vital strike... you do a fair decent amount of damage in a standard action. 16d8 isn't bad. It's worse than full round, but allow you to stay mobile
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Oversized weapoms aren't worth it nirmally, as shown in a previous post.
However...
If you take an oversized waraxe. Enlarge person. Lead blades. And greater vital strike... you do a fair decent amount of damage in a standard action. 16d8 isn't bad. It's worse than full round, but allow you to stay mobile
Great thinking Gustavo!
And you get to attack at your highest BAB with just One attack. The feat dip for Vital strike is rather painful though... but for a mobile melee attacker it seems pretty supreme.
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Oversized weapoms aren't worth it nirmally, as shown in a previous post.
However...
If you take an oversized waraxe. Enlarge person. Lead blades. And greater vital strike... you do a fair decent amount of damage in a standard action. 16d8 isn't bad. It's worse than full round, but allow you to stay mobileGreat thinking Gustavo!
And you get to attack at your highest BAB with just One attack. The feat dip for Vital strike is rather painful though... but for a mobile melee attacker it seems pretty supreme.
Wait, oversized WA is 2d8, Enlarged goes to 3d8, then lead blades goes from 3d8 to what? 4d8?
Remember, damage per round is (in a simplified sense, ignoring crits) a function of hit chance times average damage on a hit.
A quick question: in PF, when performing this calculation, is there a "standard" hit chance one generally uses? As an example, in 4e dpr calculations, AC is assumed to average at (level+14), if memory serves. Anything equivalent here?
Later on,
Red
Wait, oversized WA is 2d8, Enlarged goes to 3d8, then lead blades goes from 3d8 to what? 4d8?Oversized weapoms aren't worth it nirmally, as shown in a previous post.
However...
If you take an oversized waraxe. Enlarge person. Lead blades. And greater vital strike... you do a fair decent amount of damage in a standard action. 16d8 isn't bad. It's worse than full round, but allow you to stay mobileGreat thinking Gustavo!
And you get to attack at your highest BAB with just One attack. The feat dip for Vital strike is rather painful though... but for a mobile melee attacker it seems pretty supreme.
and greater vital strike does 16d8 :)
Hargrik Stormstomper was a GIANT of a dwarf. His stature was so large he dwarfed other dwarfs with his massiveness. He was so big he had to have weapons and armor especially crafted for him....
...decades later, after Hargrik disappeared into the Darklands his grandson, Thorik Stormstomper, a more average sized dwarf but with the courage of ten dwarfs took his grandfather's very first oversized waraxe and set off on adventures of his own. And this begins the story of how a young dwarf found himself wielding an waraxe twice as large as any other waraxe.
I'd play it.