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Somebody please refresh and clarify for me: What happens to Society Alchemists of archetypes that lose the Poison Use class feature (such as the Chirurgeon)? Aside from the obvious (if they use poison, they're taking a risk), my understanding is that they may still buy poison, but can no longer brew it themselves for half-price.
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How do poisons work in Pathfinder Society Organized Play?
Any character with the Poison Use class ability can purchase and use poisons. For now, they are the only classes that have a list of “always available poisons” (those noted below)—no other class may purchase poisons unless they appear on a chronicle sheet. Alchemists, ninja, and poisoner rogues may only purchase the following poisons from the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook:Giant wasp poison
Large scorpion venom
Medium spider venom
Shadow essence
Small centipede poisonPaladins, per their code of conduct, may not use poisons, but they don’t necessarily view the use of poisons as an evil to be opposed—it’s simply something their code prohibits them from doing themselves.
Alchemists and rogues with the poisoner archetype and the Master Poisoner ability can use Craft (alchemy) to produce poisons (see "How can alchemists craft in Pathfinder Society Organized Play?").
On Crafting, an Alchemist without the poison use ability can't craft any poisons until they have access to the poison since the lose access to poisons without the poison use ability.
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Does that mean I couldn't craft the listed poisons, but if I got a chronicle offering poison of any sort, I could henceforth craft those myself (i.e. Sea Urchin Venom's not on that list, but if I got a chronicle offering it for purchase, I could thereafter craft it myself for half price)?
And please clarify: Could I still PURCHASE, rather than craft, the "always available" poisons (which is what I thought I'd been told previously), or not at all without a chronicle since I've given up Poison Use?
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Does that mean I couldn't craft the listed poisons, but if I got a chronicle offering poison of any sort, I could henceforth craft those myself (i.e. Sea Urchin Venom's not on that list, but if I got a chronicle offering it for purchase, I could thereafter craft it myself for half price)?
And please clarify: Could I still PURCHASE, rather than craft, the "always available" poisons (which is what I thought I'd been told previously), or not at all without a chronicle since I've given up Poison Use?
Yes to the First question.... And No to the second, which once again is very clear in the FAQ, I can't clarify that any more then being as clear as you can possibly be in the FAQ
FAQ says, Any character with the Poison Use class ability can purchase and use poisons.
So if you don't have the Posion Use ability you can't Purchase them.
How is that not clear?
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For the first one: Thanks. That's cool.
For the second: As I said, I thought I'd been told before that I could buy them, just not make them. Beyond that, I wasn't sure whether or not archetypes counted as having the "Class Ability" for this purpose since they're a variant of a class that does normally get it. So it was unclear both because I'd heard differently before, and because the FAQ didn't say anything about Alchemist archetypes - just "Alchemists." As a matter of fact, looking over it again, it almost looks like one could interpret it as 'Alchemists without the Poison Use class ability can brew them but cannot buy them' - which, given that that method requires a skill check and prohibits resale, isn't entirely stupid.
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For the first one: Thanks. That's cool.
For the second: As I said, I thought I'd been told before that I could buy them, just not make them. Beyond that, I wasn't sure whether or not archetypes counted as having the "Class Ability" for this purpose since they're a variant of a class that does normally get it. So it was unclear both because I'd heard differently before, and the FAQ didn't say anything about Alchemist archetypes - just "Alchemists."
Well obviously you were told wrong evident by the FAQ, if you are still told wrong after the FAQ point out he FAQ.
Like I said you can't get any clearer then the FAQ which states right out you need the Poison Use ability to buy Poison.
Once the Alchemist loses that ability because of an archetype he loses the ability to buy them as that is what is needed per the FAQ.
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As a matter of fact, looking over it again, it almost looks like one could interpret it as 'Alchemists without the Poison Use class ability can brew them but cannot buy them' - which, given that that method requires a skill check and prohibits resale, isn't entirely stupid.
I know this seems kind of stupid, but the way the FAQ is written, I'm starting to wonder if there isn't actually some veracity to it. Thoughts?
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Venture-Captain, Massachusetts—Central & West
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It's in the "Class Archetypes" part of Ultimate Combat:
If an archetype replaces a class feature that is part of a series of improvements or additions to a base ability (such as a fighter's weapon training or a ranger's favored enemy), the next time the character would gain that ability, it counts as the lower-level ability that was replaced by the archetype. In effect, all abilities in that series are delayed until the next time the class improves that ability. For example, if an archetype replaces a rogue's +2d6 sneak attack bonus at 3rd level, when she reaches 5th level and gains a sneak attack bonus, her sneak attack doesn't jump from +1d6 to +3d6—it improves to +2d6, just as if she had finally gained the increase at 3rd level. This adjustment continues for every level at which her sneak attack would improve, until at 19th level she has +9d6 instead of the +10d6 of a standard rogue.
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As a matter of fact, looking over it again, it almost looks like one could interpret it as 'Alchemists without the Poison Use class ability can brew them but cannot buy them' - which, given that that method requires a skill check and prohibits resale, isn't entirely stupid.I know this seems kind of stupid, but the way the FAQ is written, I'm starting to wonder if there isn't actually some veracity to it. Thoughts?
To be able to Produce them with Craft Skill they need to be avaialble. They can only Produce legally Alway Avaiable Items. An Alchemist Archetype without Poison Use class ability does not have a list of Alway Avaiable Posions to Craft.