Building an 18 CON character


Advice


So a few friends and I were experimenting with harrow card building for our Rappan Athuck dungeon campaign and one of my friends our characters to choose from has stats that look about like (because I do not exactly remember):

STR 10
DEX 11
CON 18
INT 12
WIS 12
CHA 11

Now my first reaction is to build another aasimar cleric with this character (if I were to trade one of my stat blocks) but I wanted to see what other ideas come to mind, because I also think this could make a few roles - maybe a trap breaker barbarian... Or vivisectionist alchemist.

Let's see what the general consensus is.


How does harrow xard building work?

Sovereign Court

Barbarian is probably your only shot at a melee character. Maybe you could make a Dazzling Display build with Antagonize (the feat) that just tanks all day long.


Scarred Witch Doctor - Witch Archetype springs to mind


Lamontius's recommendation is excellent!:-)

Seconded.


I third Scarred Witch Doctor


Human or Half-orc Fighter would be interesting. +2 Dex qualifies you for Dodge. Can take Shield Focus and a Tower Shield and the rest for lots of AC, or +2 Str and go with a greatsword and thrash things with dice damage, weapon focus/spec/training.

Halfling or Gnome would be interesting too, 8 Str and d10 greatsword damage works alright. Be at least 10 levels before you could take Power Attack though.

Any caster does well with a huge pile of hit-points - don't need a huge stat if you're not focused on Save DC spells.


Scarred Witch Doctor is the obvious choice, but it is just about the only class that uses Con as it's primary stat so yeah.

My take - Elf Magus. 14 dex, 16 con, 14 int - if you put your level 4 stat into dex.

Save up for an agile enchant or go the dervish dance feat route. Not perfect but at least it feels like the stats have been salvaged (to me at least).


Majuba wrote:

Human or Half-orc Fighter would be interesting. +2 Dex qualifies you for Dodge. Can take Shield Focus and a Tower Shield and the rest for lots of AC, or +2 Str and go with a greatsword and thrash things with dice damage, weapon focus/spec/training.

Halfling or Gnome would be interesting too, 8 Str and d10 greatsword damage works alright. Be at least 10 levels before you could take Power Attack though.

Any caster does well with a huge pile of hit-points - don't need a huge stat if you're not focused on Save DC spells.

While the last statement in the post quoted above is true keep in mind the highest level of spell you can cast is also limited by your ability score. Starting at 12 means you are going to have to plan ahead to ensure you have the necessary ability score to continue to be able to use the highest level spells available from your class list particularly as you level up past 10th (character level). It's doable particularly if the rules set you are playing under allows magic item enhancement bonuses (i.e. Headband +x) to effect what you are allowed to memorize and cast.


I fourth Scarred Witch Doctor, or possibly a tank build based around being an Orc Fighter with the Deathless Feats, the Favored Class Bonus to add +2 to your Con for determining when you die at negative hit points, full plate, sword and board, and grabbing Feats that let you take hits for allies (part of the Bodyguard tree I think) and which make it hard for people to ignore you.

You'll be hard to hit, Full BaB and Weapon Training will offset you only having 14 Str for to-hit/damage so you won't be useless at fighting (though you would be below par), and when you DO get hit you shrug it off like it's nothing.


Kayerloth wrote:
Majuba wrote:
Any caster does well with a huge pile of hit-points - don't need a huge stat if you're not focused on Save DC spells.
While the last statement in the post quoted above is true keep in mind the highest level of spell you can cast is also limited by your ability score. Starting at 12...

Oh definitely! Caster would assume putting a racial +2 on the ability score to get at least 13. At 13 you won't hit an ability score restriction (assuming all stat bumps go to the spell-casting stat) until 11th level if wiz/clr/drd, or 14th for other. A +2 headband eliminates any problem.

Very good point Kayerloth.


Barbarian with the feat Raging Brutality

Shadow Lodge

Barbarian with a cleric dip at 3rd (for the travel and community domains).

Scarab Sages

Crossblooded Orc-Dragon Sorc/Dragon Disciple. Between Orc and DD Str bonuses, you'll be decent in melee, and you can use any high level slots that you can't cast due to low cha for lower level self buff spells. With the Orc subtype from the bloodline, you qualify for deathless feats regardless of your actual race. For something really different, you could go gnome for the con/cha boost.

It will take a long time to get decent though if you are starting at level 1.

Shadow Lodge

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Rynjin wrote:
I fourth Scarred Witch Doctor, or possibly a tank build based around being an Orc Fighter with the Deathless Feats, the Favored Class Bonus to add +2 to your Con for determining when you die at negative hit points, full plate, sword and board, and grabbing Feats that let you take hits for allies (part of the Bodyguard tree I think) and which make it hard for people to ignore you.

Yup, Bodyguard and In Harm's Way.

Bodyguard is better if you have the Helpful trait and a Benevolent suit of armour. Note that if you don't want to be a halfling, you can get Helpful by being Adopted by halflings.

I've made two Bodyguard characters and by mid-levels they can easily add the equivalent of an extra Breastplate on adjacent allies - the specialist (Cavalier Honour Guard) added +11 AC with every successful bodyguard attempt. You'd want a higher dex, though, in order to get the AoO to use Bodyguard. If you want a Bodyguard, I might suggest a Dervish Dancing Goblin.

Alternatively, if you want to stick with the Deathless Orc I'd try Archon Style - Archon Diversion - Archon Justice instead of Bodyguard/In Harm's Way. The second feat allows you to divert attacks like In Harm's Way does, except instead of automatically hitting you the attack has to get by your AC, and your ally/s can AoO the enemy whose attack you diverted. You do need a free hand, though, so no shield (maybe dip two levels of Master of Many Styles and combine with Crane Style - Crane Wing - Crane Riposte?). Never tried this one myself.

EDIT: If you want all three feat trees it's pretty intense. But what you get is a character who boosts all adjacent allies' AC by 2, once per turn can divert one attack from an ally to themselves, and if that diverted attack still hits, your threatening allies all get AoO against your attacker or you can negate it with Crane Wing and take an AoO yourself with Riposte (or you can Crane Wing any one other attack that turn) and even when you take damage you refuse to die.

All three feat trees:
MoMS1: IUAS, Dodge, Crane Style
F1: Combat Expertise
MoMS2: Archon Style, Crane Wing
F2: Endurance
F3: Archon Diversion
F4: Diehard
F5: Deathless Initiate
F6: Combat Style Master
F7: Ironhide
F8: +1
F9: Archon Justice (or Crane Riposte)
F10: Deathless Master (or Crane Riposte)
F11: Crane Riposte (or Archon Justice or Deathless Master, whatever's left)
F12: +1
F13: Deathless Zealot

You can also be a half-orc instead of an Orc - you won't get the full +4 Str, but a Shaman's Apprentice gets Endurance for free which gives you a prerequisite for the Deathless feats, and you can trade ferocity (which you won't use once you get Diehard) for a +1 luck bonus on all saves.

Of course the scarred witch doctor is still the obvious, but there are some fun options if you have feats to invest.


Other of option if you fight in indoor often. 7 levels in fighter, 10 level in stalwart defender and 3 level of paladin in between, makes sure you got heal fatigued.

Silver Crusade

And don't forget, if you go human, you can take Racial Heritage (orc) and qualify for Scarred Witch Doctor as a human!

Grand Lodge

Bigdaddyjug wrote:
And don't forget, if you go human, you can take Racial Heritage (orc) and qualify for Scarred Witch Doctor as a human!

Same with Scion of Humanity Aasimar with Racial Heritage(Orc).


Human scarred witchdoctor with one level dip into something with all martiual weapon proficiencies then eldritch knight.

Or scarred witchdoctor with a dip into sorc or bard then dragon disciple.


Nobody has mentioned summoner yet. The stats of a summoner are mostly irrelevant, so you could use your 18 Con with the summoner's Life Link ability to channel all of your hit points into your eidolon, while your eidolon fights on with no fear. Your high constitution could also support your allies with some of the (very fun) feats listed above.

Silver Crusade

Is scarred witch doctor PFS legal? This might make me make a prepared full caster.

Scarab Sages

Scarred Witch Doctor for half-orcs.

Silver Crusade

Cao Phen wrote:
Scarred Witch Doctor for half-orcs.

Is racial heritage (orc) not PFS legal? Because if so I could make an aasimar or human witch.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber
Bigdaddyjug wrote:
Is scarred witch doctor PFS legal? This might make me make a prepared full caster.

Scarred witchdoctor is in the orc entry of Advanced Race Guide and currently not legal for PFS.

per the Additional resources guide:
In Chapter 2, nothing from the catfolk, drow, hobgoblins, kobolds, orcs, and ratfolk entries are currently legal for play.

Scarab Sages

Even if Scarred Witch doctor was legal, it's not PFS legal for Half-elves or half-orcs to take Elf / Human / Orc only archtypes.

Silver Crusade

Imbicatus wrote:
Even if Scarred Witch doctor was legal, it's not PFS legal for Half-elves or half-orcs to take Elf / Human / Orc only archtypes.

Racial Heritage (orc) would make you qualify for it, though.

And thanks for ruining all my fun Walter. :(


Imbicatus wrote:
Even if Scarred Witch doctor was legal, it's not PFS legal for Half-elves or half-orcs to take Elf / Human / Orc only archtypes.

Thanks for all the input, because for whatever reason, I just wanted to build a spellcaster with that. I really like the life-link idea, so that the wariors or an eidelon could just keep on fighting! That would be awesome! Totally forgot about that spell - I usually am the martial types. More often than not - Barbarian...

Good news is that it is for a home campaign, so all we will have to do is get the DM to buy off on Scarred Witch Doctor. I will look into that more.


The Golux wrote:
How does harrow xard building work?

Check out Wayfinder #5, but you will need a harrow deck/deck of cards and the list of their meanings, because by following the directions you determine the characters ability scores, alignment, and rough backstory (to customize as you feel appropriate.)


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Hmm I am surprised no one mentioned the drunken master monk archetype with the fast drinker trait.


Imbicatus wrote:

Crossblooded Orc-Dragon Sorc/Dragon Disciple. Between Orc and DD Str bonuses, you'll be decent in melee, and you can use any high level slots that you can't cast due to low cha for lower level self buff spells. With the Orc subtype from the bloodline, you qualify for deathless feats regardless of your actual race. For something really different, you could go gnome for the con/cha boost.

It will take a long time to get decent though if you are starting at level 1.

+1To This


I Hate Nickelback wrote:
Imbicatus wrote:

Crossblooded Orc-Dragon Sorc/Dragon Disciple. Between Orc and DD Str bonuses, you'll be decent in melee, and you can use any high level slots that you can't cast due to low cha for lower level self buff spells. With the Orc subtype from the bloodline, you qualify for deathless feats regardless of your actual race. For something really different, you could go gnome for the con/cha boost.

It will take a long time to get decent though if you are starting at level 1.

+1To This

The good news is that we each will have a little pool of pre-made characters that advance as our current character advances, so that when our character falls prey to Rappan Athuk... well, we find a survivor of another party that was nearly wiped! WOW!

Thanks for that idea as well.


You could probably make a decent dwarven druid!


Sloanzilla wrote:
You could probably make a decent dwarven druid!

I have thought about that as well. Mostly an oread/dwarven druid mix, cave archetype.

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