Calling alcohol a "poison" is exactly as accurate as calling carbon dioxide a "pollutant" and has exactly the same rationale and motivation.Well, I'm glad you've announced that you have no intention of ever being taken seriously again by anyone.
LOL, luckily you aren't the arbiter of who is or isn't taken seriously.
I googled 'is alcohol a poison' and the number one answer was 'no, unless you want to be really pedantic and define just about everything as a poison'. So you're all correct!Funny, because the medical sites like the Mayo Clinic don't have a problem with it at all. So I have to wonder what exactly your source is.
Everyone's Google experience is different. When I google "is alcohol a poison" I get the following:
Science Is What Society Says It Is: Alcohol's Poison! | Psychology ...
www.psychologytoday.com/.../science-is-what-society-says-it-is-alcohols...
Nov 10, 2010 – Alcohol is poison - screw research saying drinkers live longer! By Stanton Peele...
"Alcohol is a Poison"
www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/Controversies/1119724191.html
Alcohol is a poison technically, but calling alcohol or alcoholic beverages poisons is deceptive because most substances are poisons in large enough dosages, ...
Is alcohol a poison? ? - Yahoo! Answers
answers.yahoo.com › ... › Food & Drink › Beer, Wine & Spirits
Nov 24, 2008 – There is a saying that "The dose makes the poison." Anything can poison you in the right dose. Try swallowing a handful of salt. Well, maybe you ...
Alcohol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol
Methanol (wood alcohol), for instance, is oxidized to formaldehyde and then to the poisonous formic acid in the liver by alcohol dehydrogenase and ...
What Is Alcohol Poisoning? How Dangerous Is Alcohol Poisoning?
www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/215627.php
Feb 3, 2011 – When a person has alcohol poisoning they have consumed a toxic amount of alcohol, usually over a short period. Their blood alcohol level is ...
Alcohol poisoning - MayoClinic.com
www.mayoclinic.com/health/alcohol-poisoning/DS00861
Alcohol poisoning — Comprehensive overview covers symptoms, complications, treatment of drinking too much alcohol.
PEAS ON TOAST: why alcohol IS poison
mushypeasontoast.blogspot.com/2008/01/why-alcohol-is-poison.html
Jan 30, 2008 – why alcohol IS poison. Something's happened to me. It's most extraordinary. I NEVER anticipated this in a million years. I've been off the bottle ...
Alcohol: A Poison to Your Body and Mind (Infographic) - DUI
www.totaldui.com/blog/alcohol-a-poison-to-your-body-and-mind/
Aug 2, 2012 – Before you start on that next beer, rethink what you consider safe alcohol consumption to be. The effects on your body and mind when you drink ...
What Happens When You Get Alcohol Poisoning? - Gizmodo
gizmodo.com/.../what-happens-when-you-get-alcohol-poisonin...
by Brent Rose - in 1,573 Google+ circles
As regular Happy Hour readers know, there's nothing we like more than finding new, innovative, and fun approaches to drinking. But there's a darker side that ...
What Alcohol Actually Does to Your Brain and Body - Lifehacker
lifehacker.com/.../what-alcohol-actually-does-to-your-brain-and...
by Kevin Purdy - in 14,787 Google+ circles
Nov 9, 2010 – Your body sees alcohol as a poison, or at least as something it doesn't actually want inside it. To fight back, and sober you up, humans produce ...
Of those links, only one really argues that alcohol isn't a poison, and the ones with actual medical backgrounds (e.g. the Mayo clinic or Medical News Today) are pretty straighforward that it IS a poison.
But I'd prefer to turn it around. Let's pretend for a moment that alcohol isn't a poison. What earthly reason would cause someone to believe that the effects of snake venom metabolism is not dosage-dependent, or that fat cells play a part in the metabolism of snake venom? (We've established pretty clearly that a typical fighter-type would have a better saving throw against drunkenness, all else being equal, than a typical wizard-type.) The same biochemical pathways are largely involved (it's still transported around the body by the blood unless the liver can metabolize it first), so why would snake venom be different?
There is also a medical condition of "water poisoning". I suggest that if you raise the idea that water is poison at your next dinner party, you will be laughed out of the room.There is the medical condition of "alcohol poisoning" so I would say that pretty strongly says alcohol is a poison.
In pathfinder terms however, its a drug. See dwarven fire ale.
This goes to technical definition versus common usage.
Going to merriam webster for the definition of poison:
Definition of POISON
1
a : a substance that through its chemical action usually kills, injures, or impairs an organism
b (1) : something destructive or harmful (2) : an object of aversion or abhorrence
Is water 1a? No. Not really. Is it 1b1? Sure, it can be destructive or harmful, in the right amounts.
Common usage is that poisons can kill in small amounts. But technically, almost anything is a poison.
According to wikipedia, you need 90grams/kg of body weight for a 50/50 chance of death from water in rats.
In contrast, sodium cyanide you need 6.4mg/kg for the same 50/50 chance of death. This makes sodium cyanide about 14,000% more toxic than water.
In the right amounts it does its damage through chemical action.
Does it usually kill, injure, or impair an organism? No. Does it mean it can never? No.
In the right amounts it does its damage through chemical action.Does it usually kill, injure, or impair an organism? No. Does it mean it can never? No.Ingested in sufficient quantities? Yes.
I just realized we're really, really, really off-topic.
Yes we are. You also realize that I said "in the right amounts" in my initial statement right? You're basically just repeating that over and over.
Technicality : Everything is a poison. You can get lead poisoning from bullets, or from eating lead. Or you can get water poisoning, or alcahol poisoning, or Vitamin C poisoning, or beta-caratene poisoning, or UV poisoning (look up photodermatitus if I remember the name correctly).
Common Usage : Anything that can, upon contact or ingestion, kill you with a small amount of internalization (arsenic, cobra venom) is a poison.
Stop trying to technicality your way into having Neutralize Poison be the most powerful spell in the world that instantly destroys everything it's cast on, because everything can be poisonous in the right amounts.
Well, adamantine dragon is arguing RL for some reason.
As far as pathfinder goes, there are diseases, poisons, and drugs. Neutralize poison would work only on things listed as poisons, which does not include most alcohols, as those are drugs.
Stop trying to technicality your way into having Neutralize Poison be the most powerful spell in the world that instantly destroys everything it's cast on, because everything can be poisonous in the right amounts.
Please don't comment if you haven't read the rest of the discussion.
This discussion arose because Adamantine did not hold that alcohol was a valid analogue for other poisons when, in fact, it works the same way and resistance to it works on the same principles as other toxins.
What followed is Adamantine ignoring any opportunity for this insanely simple concept to be explained to him, and a few people being frustrated because he refused to see the facts that were shoved repeatedly into his face.
It has nothing, at this point, to do with the game.
Technicality : Everything is a poison. You can get lead poisoning from bullets, or from eating lead. Or you can get water poisoning, or alcahol poisoning, or Vitamin C poisoning, or beta-caratene poisoning, or UV poisoning (look up photodermatitus if I remember the name correctly).It has to be absorbed by the body to be a poison. Bullets don't get absorbed (well, I suppose lead bullets can potentially cause heavy metal poisoning, but getting shot is the bigger deal). There are plenty of things that the body doesn't absorb, heck, some of them can even kill you if you eat them.
Pretty much, if you eat/inject/inhale anything in sufficient quantities, it will have a lethal dose level. Is it possible to reach that level with everything? Maybe not.
Pretty much, if you eat/inject/inhale anything in sufficient quantities, it will have a lethal dose level. Is it possible to reach that level with everything? Maybe not.You can eat things that block the digestive tract, leading to death. They aren't poisons. You could eat something that causes a lot of internal bleeding and then death. That wouldn't be a poison either.
So plenty of things can kill that aren't poisons.
The fact that they kill you physically before they do chemically doesn't mean they couldn't kill you chemically had you not died from the physical blockage/bleeding.
Please don't comment if you haven't read the rest of the discussion.
I'd tell you where to put this comment, but it'd get deleted by the developers for violating rules.
You have 0 (zero) right to tell anyone not to post on this after you and Adamantine Dragon have completely and totally derailed this whole thread with your penile measurements competition.
You are trying to twist the rules beyond the common meaning of them, and you're doing it not because you really believe that remove disease should cure a hangover or a full on drunk, but because you are torqued off at AD and trying to p*ss in his wheaties. By the same token, he's doing the same thing to you.
So come off your high horse, and quit telling people how to post, hypocrite.
@adamantine dragon
Why do you say alcohol is not a poison? Is it because you don't feel it is harmful or because its a drug (and therefore not a poison) or something else?
You are trying to twist the rules
And see, it is this sentence that tells me right out you bothered to read zero (0) of the posts in question before you commented on them.
Which makes you look quite silly.
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In most cases, characters should know how good their effort was compared to their best effort (= how they rolled). It's realistic, and it's more bother than it's worth for players to try and ignore their rolls. The exceptions would be the kinds of rolls that are often performed secretly by the GM - especially Perception and Sense Motive. The reason these rolls are performed secretly is because the character shouldn't know how well they did and the GM roll prevents metagaming in these cases. Even if the GM doesn't actually roll these secretly, it's good form to act as though you believe your character's result.
There is the medical condition of "alcohol poisoning" so I would say that pretty strongly says alcohol is a poison.
In pathfinder terms however, its a drug. See dwarven fire ale.
So alcohol is a drug. It's a drug in PF, and it's a drug IRL. Drugs in PF are resisted by Fort saves, just like poisons are. Stating that a fighter's high Fort saves make sense because the typical fighter can hold his drink better than the typical wizard makes just as much sense whether alcohol is a poison or a drug, because both use Fort saves.
Can we end that now? Or at least move on?
I think you misunderstand how drugs in PF work. Drugs in PF automatically apply their effects both beneficial and negative, and force a fort save for addiction. It doesn't matter if a fighter and a wizard both drink dwarven fire ale, they both rage for 1d4 rounds, get cold resistance 5 for 1 hour, and take 1d2 con damage. If they fail the DC 20 fort save, they become moderately addicted to the ale, suffering -2 con/str penalty and are unable to heal the 1d2 con damage dealt by the ale.
So no, it is important because even characters immune to poisons can take a drug (such as dwarven fire ale) and suffer the benefits and penalties of it.