Goblin Squad Member
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Okay, we've heard a lot of concepts about what a settlement can control and its influence on points of interest in outlying hexes. However, what if the only thing you own is the point of interest? We've got Forts, Inns, Watchtowers, etc that any Chartered Company can build.
Say a chartered company of drunken braggarts builds an inn. What sort of knobs do they have control over? What bonuses will this bring to them? What sort of protection can they arrange (PvP Window for the structure), etc? Can they build this inn anywhere or does it need to be adjacent to the settlement sponsoring your chartered company? If so, what happens when you change settlements?
I'm interested if any of these questions have answers yet in the process of designing the game system.
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Goblin Squad Member
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This tells us that POIs will have NPC guards but not whether there will be "independent" POIs or if they would have NPC guards.
Points of Interest such as Inns or Watchtowers in wilderness hexes controlled by a settlement can also have NPC guards defending them, but these are much smaller forces than the NPC garrison defending a settlement. Like a settlement, a Point of Interest has a PvP window, and outside this time its NPC defenses are massively increased. Any Points of Interest controlled by a settlement must have the same PvP window as the controlling settlement.
The bold below hints at possible "independent" POIs and that there could be PC management with "knobs".
We'll talk more about these systems later, but, essentially, settlements (and freestanding points of interest) will work better if skilled PCs are associated with various aspects of building control and overall settlement management. You'll want to fill those positions. But that also means that a blade applied by a skilled assassin can throw your settlement into chaos. When a building manager is assassinated (the requirements of which are described below), it replaces the benefits granted by the manager with a penalty for a time. When a settlement leader is assassinated, the Development Indexes associated with that position take temporary damage, potentially causing buildings to shut down, lowering benefits, and even forcing the settlement out of an expensive war..
Below shows it is possible...
In addition, this reward gives you ownership of a tavern somewhere in the Crusader Road starting area for Pathfinder Online. This tavern will be located on one of the roads between settlements and will be a valuable stopping off point for people moving through the wilderness.
That is all that I could find easily. In short, there is not enough info, for this regular Joe, to answer your questions yet.
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Goblin Squad Member
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thanks for nice info compilation, Bringslite!
Independent POI's are a very interesting thought. Some people just want to build their own little farm (or inn, or mine, or watchtower, or...) and defend it against bandits and monsters.
My question is: who can own a POI (besides settlements)? Individuals only or chartered companies? The builder only, or can the deed be traded?
If chartered companies must "belong to" a settlement, any POI they hold should logically contribute to the settlement - but could they "take it with them" if they leave? Will it be conquered if the settlement is? Does it matter if the POI is connected to the settlement or not?
If only individuals (whether single character or single accounts) can own them, can they be conquered or only razed? Can they be sold? Can they remain private property if the owner joins a settlement? Can the owner choose to contribute to the DI of adjacent settlement(s)?
If I conquer a settlement without destroying the POIs, do I potentially risk "scattering" it into privately owned POIs held by members of the former settlement?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Excellent questions!
My gaming group did a Crowdforger Guild pledge through me, as it was cheaper than six Pioneers, so we're on the land rush list, but we've no interest in managing a settlement. An inn, watchtower, etc., though, is more like it. Can we claim a hex and build just the one structure on it? Can we build it in the "settlement" spot on the hex - and just never grow any larger - or must it be on a POI? Can we build on POIs without first building on the settlement point?
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Goblin Squad Member
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It may be beneficial for a CC intending to construct a settlement to take control of and develop the POI first. Doing so would provide a tactical buffer and surely improve the efficiency of building the settlement proper.
You have to create at least a fort before being able to start a settlement, this was stated in the "Player-Created Buildings and Structures". Apparently a fort will be very expensive.
The blog does not describe whether the step from fort to settlement will be huge or not, I can imagine that once you have a fort you can pretty much activate "settlement mode" and start popping up other buildings.
Another question is, and I believe this is what you were writing about, if having other PoIs will aid the settlement formation process. I would guess that having one or more lumbermills and quarries would be at least indirectly needed just for the massive amounts of resources required in settlement building.
Since destroying PoIs is a way to weaken a settlement during war, some PoIs will definitely aid the settlement in different ways. About PoIs affecting the very founding of a settlement I don't think it is known but to me it sounds unneccessary. The PoIs will hopefully be important enough by increasing DI and otherwise "buffing" a settlement already from an early time once it has been formed.
One point to note regardless of whether points of interest are always attached to a settlement or not. From reading the blogs settlements have a PVP window I am not convinced that points of interest are intended to.
While this could be merely something they have omitted to say I am inclined to the belief that they do not due to the blogs talking about destroying points of interest as a way of lowering development indices prior to assaulting the settlement. Indeed in the gobbocast recently one developer mentioned you would need to destroy a point of interest to build a siege camp.
Having issued that caveat, perhaps a dev might clarify whether they see a POI having a pvp window, I do like the idea of non aligned points of interest such as inn's. However for those wishing to set such up you would probably need to get a powerful entity to act as protector or provide a service to valuable to disrupt. Both of course would be preferable.
A good example for those familiar with the Feist books is Shingazi's landing which was under the protection of the Jeshandi....though it did get torched at one point so it is by no means a perfect protection
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Goblin Squad Member
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Another thing that's a little tangential is if all of these guys are assigned to protect those certain alignments...
Hellknights for LN, LE, NE, and TN towns, Knights of Iomedae for LG, LN, NG, and TN towns, or the League of the Wood for CN, CE, and NE towns.
Who provides guards for the Chaotic Good settlements and points of interest?
I'm guessing the LN listing for Knights of Iomedae is incorrect and that they do LG, NG, CG, and TN. That would center them around good, Hellknights around LE, and League of the Wood around CE which should cover all of the bases.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Hellknights for LN, LE, NE, and TN towns, Knights of Iomedae for LG, LN, NG, and TN towns, or the League of the Wood for CN, CE, and NE towns.Who provides guards for the Chaotic Good settlements and points of interest?
Yeah, I pointed that out in the blog thread:
While the PvP window is closed, the settlement is defended by a large number of NPC guards from one of the major alliances in the game: Hellknights for LN, LE, NE, and TN towns, Knights of Iomedae for LG, LN, NG, and TN towns, or the League of the Wood for CN, CE, and NE towns.CG is not mentioned.
Lee answered later:
CG is not mentioned. (for what faction protects the town)
Whoops. Probably Eagle Knights.
@Nihimon
As you are already in the thread and are master of dev quotes
anything to support Points of interest being covered by pvp windows or the NPC guards?
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Goblin Squad Member
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One point to note regardless of whether points of interest are always attached to a settlement or not. From reading the blogs settlements have a PVP window I am not convinced that points of interest are intended to.
While this could be merely something they have omitted to say I am inclined to the belief that they do not due to the blogs talking about destroying points of interest as a way of lowering development indices prior to assaulting the settlement. Indeed in the gobbocast recently one developer mentioned you would need to destroy a point of interest to build a siege camp.
Having issued that caveat, perhaps a dev might clarify whether they see a POI having a pvp window, I do like the idea of non aligned points of interest such as inn's. However for those wishing to set such up you would probably need to get a powerful entity to act as protector or provide a service to valuable to disrupt. Both of course would be preferable.
A good example for those familiar with the Feist books is Shingazi's landing which was under the protection of the Jeshandi....though it did get torched at one point so it is by no means a perfect protection
It doesn't answer the question of non-aligned POIs, but:
Points of Interest such as Inns or Watchtowers in wilderness hexes controlled by a settlement can also have NPC guards defending them, but these are much smaller forces than the NPC garrison defending a settlement. Like a settlement, a Point of Interest has a PvP window, and outside this time its NPC defenses are massively increased. Any Points of Interest controlled by a settlement must have the same PvP window as the controlling settlement.
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Goblin Squad Member
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One point to note regardless of whether points of interest are always attached to a settlement or not. From reading the blogs settlements have a PVP window I am not convinced that points of interest are intended to.
While this could be merely something they have omitted to say I am inclined to the belief that they do not due to the blogs talking about destroying points of interest as a way of lowering development indices prior to assaulting the settlement. Indeed in the gobbocast recently one developer mentioned you would need to destroy a point of interest to build a siege camp.
Having issued that caveat, perhaps a dev might clarify whether they see a POI having a pvp window, I do like the idea of non aligned points of interest such as inn's. However for those wishing to set such up you would probably need to get a powerful entity to act as protector or provide a service to valuable to disrupt. Both of course would be preferable.
A good example for those familiar with the Feist books is Shingazi's landing which was under the protection of the Jeshandi....though it did get torched at one point so it is by no means a perfect protection
There is this:
Points of Interest such as Inns or Watchtowers in wilderness hexes controlled by a settlement can also have NPC guards defending them, but these are much smaller forces than the NPC garrison defending a settlement. Like a settlement, a Point of Interest has a PvP window, and outside this time its NPC defenses are massively increased. Any Points of Interest controlled by a settlement must have the same PvP window as the controlling settlement.
Thanks Dario,
I find I forget details of the blogs I read ages ago. I think it is safe to assume then that a non aligned POI would have a pvp window and npc guards. However it does sound like it would be more than possible to take a POI outside the PVP window as the NPC garrison is much smaller
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Nihimon
As you are already in the thread and are master of dev quotes
As you can see, Dario is at least as good as I am at dredging up dev quotes. I think any variation really comes down to our particular personalities and which bits stuck in our memory because they were personally important to us.
As they say, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery :)
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Goblin Squad Member
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One point to note regardless of whether points of interest are always attached to a settlement or not. From reading the blogs settlements have a PVP window I am not convinced that points of interest are intended to.
While this could be merely something they have omitted to say I am inclined to the belief that they do not due to the blogs talking about destroying points of interest as a way of lowering development indices prior to assaulting the settlement. Indeed in the gobbocast recently one developer mentioned you would need to destroy a point of interest to build a siege camp.
Having issued that caveat, perhaps a dev might clarify whether they see a POI having a pvp window, I do like the idea of non aligned points of interest such as inn's. However for those wishing to set such up you would probably need to get a powerful entity to act as protector or provide a service to valuable to disrupt. Both of course would be preferable.
In order to build a Settlement, you must first build a Fort which is a PoI location. Just randomly razing someone in the middle of trying to bring together a settlement without it having the protection of a PvP window would be frustrating. So, I see it having a PvP window of some sort. Also, _NOT_ being able to raze someone's attempt at creating a settlement would be equally frustrating, so having full protection all the time wouldn't be good (well, unless it came with DI penalties of some sort).
So, the question really goes back to... what protections would PoIs have? What adjustments could the owners of them make? And what bonuses would these things convey?
Edit: And seeing as I got side tracked for a half-hour doing something else, the thread has answered most of this. BUT! My question of why we would care about DIs of an Inn, Fort, or Watchtower is still unanswered as we don't know what benefits these places give on their own without a settlement.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Virgil, just to correct a small mistake, settlements are not built on POIs. Settlements are built in settlement hexes, and POIs are built in wilderness hexes. This is a distinction to keep a bit of buffer around settlements so they aren't adjacent.
I thought Settlements are built on PoI hexes that will accommodate a Fort and then the Fort is upgraded to a Settlement. So, anything that would accommodate a Fort would accommodate a Settlement.
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Goblin Squad Member
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So, anything that would accommodate a Fort would accommodate a Settlement.
Over the Hill and Far Away explains it all in fairly good detail. The key bit is this:
Wilderness hexes are mostly undeveloped land with a space for a point of interest (an inn, watchtower, farm, or similar structure) to be built near the center.
So, Forts aren't really POIs, instead they're pre-Settlements.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Virgil, just to correct a small mistake, settlements are not built on POIs. Settlements are built in settlement hexes, and POIs are built in wilderness hexes. This is a distinction to keep a bit of buffer around settlements so they aren't adjacent.I thought Settlements are built on PoI hexes that will accommodate a Fort and then the Fort is upgraded to a Settlement. So, anything that would accommodate a Fort would accommodate a Settlement.
I think Nihimon hit it. The implication is that you will not be able to build a Fort on a wilderness hex (POI site). You'll be able to build watchtowers, or farms, or inns, or mines, or lumber camps....
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think Nihimon hit it. The implication is that you will not be able to build a Fort on a wilderness hex (POI site). You'll be able to build watchtowers, or farms, or inns, or mines, or lumber camps....@Virgil, just to correct a small mistake, settlements are not built on POIs. Settlements are built in settlement hexes, and POIs are built in wilderness hexes. This is a distinction to keep a bit of buffer around settlements so they aren't adjacent.I thought Settlements are built on PoI hexes that will accommodate a Fort and then the Fort is upgraded to a Settlement. So, anything that would accommodate a Fort would accommodate a Settlement.
Point taken.
However, a Fort is still something that is non-settlement that a Chartered Company could build and use without ever actually making it a settlement and would need similar answers on what it is and what it can do.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I suspect that the idea of "fort is not a settlement" is probably going to fade away. With the changes to what constitutes a hex, development indices, and the like, I think the first structure you build on a settlement hex will be a settlement. It may be called a "fort" and offer limited space to build supporting structures (training halls, crafting centers, etc) until upgraded, but I would wager it will not be that mechanically different from a full settlement. It will probably be low enough in DI to not require a PVP window, though a sufficiently superior force can still take it, window or not.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Back from lunch and with no interest in doing any more work today, so...
What facilities will be available to a Fort/Pre-settlement?
At what point in construction does a Fort tip over into a Settlement? Or is establishing a PvP window the delineation?
Given the scores of CCs on the Land Rush Leaderboard which, like mine, have single-digit/zero votes, is there a minimum CC membership required (or effectively necessary) to construct a Fort? A settlement?
If a CC chooses not to develop the hex it claims during the Land Rush (frankly, I'm leaning this way myself), does the hex become unclaimed after a certain period of time?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Or is establishing a PvP window the delineation?
I don't think that's the case. All POIs (inn, watchtower, farm, etc.) will have PvP Windows, not just Settlements.
... is there a minimum CC membership required (or effectively necessary) to construct a Fort? A settlement?
10 Characters for a Settlement.
If a CC chooses not to develop the hex it claims during the Land Rush (frankly, I'm leaning this way myself)
I'm not certain, but I expect that the Land Rush will only dole out a relatively small number of hexes. I certainly don't expect them to allow every Crowdforger Guild pledge to have one; there were 188 Crowdforger Guild pledges during the Kickstarter - I don't even think there will be that many Settlement Hexes on the map to start with.