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Stats rolls 2d6+6; I got very lucky on the rolls.
3,6+6 (15)
4,6+6 (16)
6,2+6 (14)
2,5+6 (13)
6,6+6 (18)
5,6+6 (17)
I am going with a Variant class pole-arms master Fighter.
How would you make this Pole-arm master be built?
Stats: (I know most would go with 18 on the STR, I am looking at better saves maybe skills use).
STR 16
DEX 13(15) +2(Human)
CON 14
INT 15
WIS 18
CHA 17
Feat Tree (Ideal other input choices):
R1 - Exotic Weapon (Fauchard) - The GM may Be Giving this feat for free
F1 - Power Attack
L1 - Dodge
F2 - Combat Expertise
L3 - Mobility
F4 - Spring Attack
L5 - Whirlwind
F6 - Weapon Focus (Fauchard)
L7 - Weapon Spec (Fauchard)
F8 - Combat Reflexes
L9 - Lunge
F10 - Improve Crit
L11 - Improve Trip
F12 - Greater Trip
L13 - Greater Weapon Focus (Fauchard)
F14 - Greater Weapon Spec (fauchard)
(I am looking for other feats ideal to fit in the rest)
L15 - ?
F16 - ?
L17 - ?
F18 - ?
L19 - ?
F20 - ?
the level you're getting your improved maneuver feats seems to be after they lose most of their effectiveness, due to the prevalence of flying enemies, enemies with too many legs, etc.
i'd swap them out (along with combat expertise) for strike back, furious focus, and something else, i'm not sure (more critical feats maybe? bleeding, and sickening/stunning are great).
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the level you're getting your improved maneuver feats seems to be after they lose most of their effectiveness, due to the prevalence of flying enemies, enemies with too many legs, etc.
i'd swap them out (along with combat expertise) for strike back, furious focus, and something else, i'm not sure (more critical feats maybe? bleeding, and sickening/stunning are great).
Combat Expertise feat is require for Improved Trip and Whirlwind Attacks.
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having combat reflexes at low (1st?) level is good, because extra attacks are a really big deal when you only attack once a round and are likely to miss.
You don't need power attack at 1st level...i'd put it off until 4th or 5th or something.
I'd also rearrange your stats to have more str/con/dex and boost the 17 or 18 with the human bonus, instead of the lowest stat. But you already commented on that (up to you). You'd still have good saves and stuff with a 14 or 15 or 16 on wisdom instead of an 18. In particular, having an 18 str is a lot better than a 16 when you have a 2h weapon.
To consider: I don't think that specialization is as good as you think it is. +2 damage in 2nd edition was a big deal ... but since then the HP and damage went up by like a factor of 3, and specialization is still a +2 for 2 feats or a +4 for 4. That isn't that much damage in pathfinder, on a 2H weapon. for 4 feats. I am not going to say it's bad to take it, but think about that, as it frees up a bunch of options if you don't lock in those 4 feats.
I will take your input and review and make some changes. I was looking at increasing the will for saves reason, and I wanted to give the CHA for more use in role playing reason on skill checks
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ref +2,will +2 feats
if you can stomach LG, consider 2 levs of PAL, that removes some feats, but allows str 20, dex 16 and wis 13 with still better saves and that cha 17 will not constantly trigger questions, why you have cha 17.
Yes the stats I've setup would be great for Paladin. I wish you can get more out of the paladin. I find paladin a little weak for my taste. I am not knocking down a paladin class, they're purpose in their own little world. If anything I would focus towards a Holy Vindicator for my taste.
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Don't like your focus, here - you're not getting the most out of Polearm Master, which is really freaking good at taking AoOs and controlling space.
Here would be my suggestion:
1: EWP(Fauchard), Power Attack, Combat Expertise
2: Improved Trip
3: Combat Reflexes
4: Stand Still
5: Steady Engagement
6: Greater Trip
7: Lunge
8: Improved Critical (Fauchard)
9: Cornugon Smash
10: Intimidating Prowess
11: Pin Down
12: Penetrating Strike
13: Staggering Critical
14: Critical Mastery
15: Blinding Critical
16: Greater Penetrating Strike
17: Weapon Focus: Fauchard
18: Swap Staggering for Stunning, Greater weapon Focus: Fauchard
19: Weapon Specialization: Fauchard
20: Greater Weapon Specialization: FauchardWe have the following pretty awesome abilities: Anybody who provokes an AoO from our reach gets hit (Standard AoO), stopped (Stand Still), tripped (Steady Engagement), and attacked again (Greater Trip).
Every time you hit anything, they will become shaken, because of Cornugon Smash and Intimidating Prowess (and your good charisma).
Meanwhile, we have also taken the most important damage feats as fast as we can take them: Power attack, Improved Critical, Lunge (So you can almost always get a full attack), the critical mastery feats. And you will ignore 10/- points of DR, which is generally useful as hell.
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But it seems like you want to be able to hit a lot of things. If you want to do that, could I recommend the following instead of dodge/mobility/spring attack/whirlwind?:Cleave, Great Cleave, Cleaving Finish, Improved Cleaving Finish.
I prefer this for the following reasons: First, it only takes a standard action to do, so you can move up to somebody and do it. Second, given that you're at your full AB, you won't miss - pretty much the same. Third, if you kill somebody (which you are bound to do, because you have improved critical and are presumably using this on hordes of mooks), you get even more attacks.
If you want to slot them into my...
WOW! this is pretty good. It seems to me is focus towards a single target, I was hoping for more multi-able targets.
I wanted to be able handle for melee CC reason swarm of enemies.
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two builds I found recently on this very thing. One does not have polearm but gets reach through lunge. Also Enlarge person is your friend.
You can have the best of both worlds if you get the EWP for free.
I think your missing the point on what I trying to focus on is the trip and reach abilities.
I do understand you wanting me to get rid of the EWP. I want the weapon of choice. I love to have character with exotic choice or odd ideas.
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DO NOT USE THIS ARCHETYPE!!!
it is better, for what you are trying to do, to play a lore warden or a vanilla fighter. pole-arm master is worthless as an archetype because polefighting and sweeping fiend are worthless.
you can make a much better tripper/bull rusher with a lorewarden + spiked armor. and it would be pretty much the same character with better skills.
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DO NOT USE THIS ARCHETYPE!!!
it is better, for what you are trying to do, to play a lore warden or a vanilla fighter. pole-arm master is worthless as an archetype because polefighting and sweeping fiend are worthless.
you can make a much better tripper/bull rusher with a lorewarden + spiked armor. and it would be pretty much the same character with better skills.
Well, your not fun on your input.
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Actually it's a good archtype; for two reasons:
*Shorten staff - while you can trip with just armor spikes (or nothing) during a whirlwind, you usually get a better bonus if you use your polearm (it even circumvents the +2)
*The +1 at 3rd and every 4 levels on Attacks of Opportunity is flat-out awesome.
Having said that, I agree Lore Warden is generally better; but having played a polearm user for 9 levels I can assure you they are very effective (and hit more often as things go down when you get improved trip).
As to the build up:
*I'd start by taking +2 to both Str AND Wis. As a human you can actually have +2 to 2 stats by giving up "Skilled" and a feat; this is well worth it.
*Even if you are looking to make your character more "Diverse", put the 18 to int. Heck, you can even "human" yourself to Str: 18 Int: 20... this again say "Make this guy a Lore Warden", since you would take advantage of his high int. You could then lower your cha to 13 and not even notice; use your extra skill points to make your social skills higher than the 17 cha would give you in the first place.
The problem here is that you have amazing stats, and are assigning them in the least powerful way; and you are naysaying any improvements (IE: EWP being a bad idea). So I guess the question is what are you looking for here? Usually if you have a thread with that theme, you are looking for optimization... but that is clearly not the case here. I have a standard 20 point buy polefighter that would do most things (combat especially) better than this guy.
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Amazing stats, and what's likely to be a mediocre character unless you use the right ones in the right places. If your Str isn't at least 18 to start, you'll regret it. If you're expecting to deal with significant numbers via combat reflexes, put another big one into Dex. Con, of course, is vital. Consider carefully your first level feats...if you take Power Attack and Combat Expertise at 1st, they both subtract from chance to hit when you're at your weakest. Combat reflexes at first will make you so amazingly adaptable right off the bat instead.
Or you could learn what it's like to screw up amazing stats, as you like.
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Actually it's a good archtype; for two reasons:
*Shorten staff - while you can trip with just armor spikes (or nothing) during a whirlwind, you usually get a better bonus if you use your polearm (it even circumvents the +2)
*The +1 at 3rd and every 4 levels on Attacks of Opportunity is flat-out awesome.Having said that, I agree Lore Warden is generally better; but having played a polearm user for 9 levels I can assure you they are very effective (and hit more often as things go down when you get improved trip).
As to the build up:
*I'd start by taking +2 to both Str AND Wis. As a human you can actually have +2 to 2 stats by giving up "Skilled" and a feat; this is well worth it.
*Even if you are looking to make your character more "Diverse", put the 18 to int. Heck, you can even "human" yourself to Str: 18 Int: 20... this again say "Make this guy a Lore Warden", since you would take advantage of his high int. You could then lower your cha to 13 and not even notice; use your extra skill points to make your social skills higher than the 17 cha would give you in the first place.
The problem here is that you have amazing stats, and are assigning them in the least powerful way; and you are naysaying any improvements (IE: EWP being a bad idea). So I guess the question is what are you looking for here? Usually if you have a thread with that theme, you are looking for optimization... but that is clearly not the case here. I have a standard 20 point buy polefighter that would do most things (combat especially) better than this guy.
O' boy its too bad I could not combine the two Pole-arm and Lord Warden :D
This would be great.
"How would you build your Pole-Arm Master Ideals?"
I think the word you are looking for is 'Ideas' not 'Ideals.'
Have you ever played Monster Hunter? You know the long sword style? Well my "polearm master" would be a fauchard (flavored to look like a nodachi with reach) wielding 2hw style (urban) ranger 7/ grey warden X. Agile, powerful, skillful, and deadly. I'll dig up my build, but at lvl 12 it does +4 hit and dmg (wand of instant enemy) + 4d8 weapon dice (lead blades and vital strike) + destruction judgement + 2d6 SA + 3d6 bane + static str and enchantment bonus that crits on a 15+... Track, traps, over 80 skills.
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Have you ever played Monster Hunter? You know the long sword style? Well my "polearm master" would be a fauchard (flavored to look like a nodachi with reach) wielding 2hw style (urban) ranger 7/ grey warden X. Agile, powerful, skillful, and deadly. I'll dig up my build, but at lvl 12 it does +4 hit and dmg (wand of instant enemy) + 4d8 weapon dice (lead blades and vital strike) + destruction judgement + 2d6 SA + 3d6 bane + static str and enchantment bonus that crits on a 15+... Track, traps, over 80 skills.
I would love to review what you have created.
20 pt buy
Str: 16
Dex: 16 (+2 from human)
Con: 12
Int: 10
Wis: 13 (+1 @ 4, 8, and 12)
Cha: 10
Looking to buy a +4 belt of phys perf, mithril full plate, comp longbow (+5 str), and a holy fauchard.
lvl beakdown:
1) ranger- combat ref, exotic weap prof: fauchard*, FE: undead
2) ranger- power attack
3) ranger- furious focus
4) ranger-
5) ranger- FE: evil outsider
6) ranger- Vital Strike
7) ranger- skill focus: sense motive
8) GW-
9) GW- shield of swings?
10) GW-
11) GW- imp critical, side step
12) GW-
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A four level dip into beastmorph alchemist for mutagen, enlarge, shield, and allocution (fly potion is what I use it most for, heroism is another use if you don't have party buffs) has treated me very well. I am sitting at fighter 7/alchemist4 and trivialize most encounters with things that stand on legs.
Started out vivisectionist but that was outlawed, beastmorph gets me scent which is nice paired with smoke bombs and blind-fighting.
Very high CMB for trips coupled with greater trip, felling smash, furious focus, fury's fall and a horse chopper (reach X3 crit with no exotic weapon feat necessary) works out deliciously.
I am pretty sure my VC will never run another scenario for this character, and he hasn't even seen my enlarged mutagened CMB once I add dueling to the +3 chopper (another +6). I was unkind to the BBEG in Storval Stairs (one round of full attacks with a crit ended it). I think with all of our party buffs I have rolled around a 54 to trip?
Not sure if you wanted to avoid a dip, but it is... effective.
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Hey, OP, in response to my build:
First, ignore the guy telling you to punt a skill point and a feat to pick up an extra +2 to a stat. The only thing you could use a little more of is dex (more AoOs), and your dex is fine. You actually can use every feat you can get with this build.
Basically, Polearm Master trades off armor mastery to be better at AoOs and be able to attack in melee with polearms. Given that your AC is going to be a tiny bit worse than average, being able to freeze people at range, where they can't hit you, is just...freaking...awesome.
That said, if you want to work some AOE into the build earlier, I'd go as follows:
1: EWP(Fauchard), Power Attack, Cleave
2: Combat Reflexes
3: Stand Still
4: Great Cleave
5: Combat Expertise
6: Lunge
7: Improved Trip
8: Improved Critical (Fauchard)
9: Steady Engagement
10: Greater Trip
11: Pin Down
12: Penetrating Strike
13: Staggering Critical
14: Critical Mastery
15: Blinding Critical
16: Greater Penetrating Strike
17: Weapon Focus: Fauchard
18: Swap Staggering for Stunning, Greater weapon Focus: Fauchard
19: Weapon Specialization: Fauchard
20: Greater Weapon Specialization: FauchardBasically what I've done here is delay Improved Trip and Greater Trip in order to get Cleave, Great Cleave and Lunge as soon as possible. As a fighter with good stats, you're _going_ to hit with your primary attack almost all the time, so Great Cleave is pretty identical to Whirlwind against a lot of enemies. With lunge, you'll be able to hit a looot of guys. And it saves you 4 feats.
By level 11, the builds are the same, but we've swapped out Cornugon Smash and Intimidating Prowess for Cleave and Great Cleave, which will continue to serve you well every time you can only take a standard action attack.
-Cross (How's that look, to give you some AOE?)
What if we remove all the cleaving feats and any way to fit Whirlwind in there?
Great Cleave is a waste compared to Cleaving finish in my opinion.
DO NOT USE THIS ARCHETYPE!!!
it is better, for what you are trying to do, to play a lore warden or a vanilla fighter. pole-arm master is worthless as an archetype because polefighting and sweeping fiend are worthless.
you can make a much better tripper/bull rusher with a lorewarden + spiked armor. and it would be pretty much the same character with better skills.
I agree with this because of the free feat alone.
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I'm going to propose a slightly different build than what has already been talked about. First, some background to my thoughts. Pole arm users aren't the best damage dealers just off full attacks. However, they are exceptional battlefield controllers. That being said, I think there is a better archetype for battlefield control than the polearm master. The polearm master loses armor training for a bonus to hit on AOOs, yet since every AOO is made at full BaB I doubt it will be a problem.
Being a dwarf allows you to start wIth that 18 in Str and that high con and wis. I personally like the Foehammer archetype for battlefield control as well. It stacks trip with enemy movement, and at the high levels makes difficult terrain so enemies can't 5 foot step to follow you, all the while keeping weapon training for gloves of dueling.
18 Str
17 Dex
15 +2 Con
14 Int
16 +2 Wis
13 -2 Cha
Feats:
1: Power Attack
1: Combat Reflexes
2: Combat Expertise
3: Imp Bull Rush
4: Imp Trip
5: Steel Soul (you can definitely shift these feats around, this gives you tons of saves)
6: Pushing Assault
7: Stand Still
8: Imp Crit (Dwarven Longhammer)
9: Greater Trip
10: Greater Bull Rush
The end stuff really starts getting flexible. It depends entirely on what your GM is throwing at you and what you feel you need.
Dwarf also has some feats that really open up cleave. You can basically get whirlwind as a standard action by 4th lvl.