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First and for most, this is a DM Section, if you are one of my players. DO NOT READ MY POST. As it obviously is going to contain spoilers. Bad player!
So yeah. 1st some general information about my players.
My players are a tough buncha guys. Even the squishy ones have incredibly high Ac's and ad least 2 of their saves each are average or better.
My players are pretty good at making effective characters. The Ranger has a level of rogue and is the trap finder and with his plus 15 to perception he finds most of them and notices most ambushes not being set up by goblins or something else with racial bonuses to stealth.
The fighter has a NA item, a Deflection ring, is wearing platemail and a ring of force shield. Now I've recently read up on that ring and clarified how it works precisely. So he will no longer be having quite a high Ac while wielding his two handed axe. However even without that shield he still has a very decent FF and Normal Ac. Only his touch is weak. Oh and also he does a very very large amount of dmg i think on a minimum he does something like 13 or 14. On average he does ad least 20 to 30 or more.
The caster is a cleric/wizard going for Mystic T. Hes not really overpowered at all. hes quite versatile and in general is a asset to the group more so for his very high knowledge skills and healing. He mainly pokes from the rear of the group with magic missile's and a few buffs. Sometimes he will attack if he sees a opportunity.
There was also a Ninja but he died fighting Aldern. The ninja was a hard to hit but squishy guy and started the encounter with Aldern alone when he was scouting. Aldern paralyzed him just as the fighter got into the melee. The fighter bravely stood over his body as he lay there on the floor. Which now thinking about it, i should have said he couldn't because you fall as you were standing, like a statue as i understand being paralyzed. But anyway the fighter tried to protect him. But Aldern was able to trip him and disarm him with pure luck of the roll but not before the fighter dealt him 34 more points of dmg putting him at 6 from death.
Then it was Alderns Turn, seeing that he was about to be slain, he went for the only truly available target and attacked the paralyzed Ninja under the fighter. helpless as he was, he was a easy target and Aldern full attacked him with 2d6 sneak attack and 3 attacks. So yeah he died..
but in the end so did Aldern. None of my guys are doing anything wrong by being the best their characters can be, and I don't hate them or anything for having strong characters its just frustrating to get the feeling you are providing little to no challenge because of the partys Dmg output during combat.
Now folks here are my questions.
1st I'm concerned I'm providing near to no challenge to my players. As they are truly afraid of NO scenario; except where I make it clear to them that they should avoid something. Such as a optional and quite deadly encounter with the Sand Point Devil. And even then, i had to warn them by using its hell fire breath on one of them. It almost killed him but the Devil left with some over the top words like " your destiny is not to die by my wrath, mortal " or some such.
The Fighter Smashes and destroys anything, even if it has Damage Reduction. He does so much dmg it simply provides no real true challenge to him, especially when he hit's like a truck and has a High Ac and has a high to hit. I'm going to ask him if hes factored in all his negatives, but I'm fairly certain he has.
The only time i can make him even slow down is when i put physical obstacles in his path or a monster with buffed Ac or other things to just fight him for a round or two before he gets a hit in and kills it.
What is really funny is that I originally made the game harder by adjusting the tactics and positions of certain enemys. That resulted in a party TPK twice, lol. So seeing as i was obviously in error. We did a reset and from then on everything has been fine. They dont complain that things are 'To' Hard, but now I'm complaining because things seem to easy for them!
And my 2nd question is what to do next with Vorel and Fox Glove manor. They free'd Iesha from her attic prison. But because of how dangerous my party is, i had her lead them to Aldern rather than attack him and weaken him before they got there. Because i knew they would dispatch him rather quickly. And they did, in about 4 rounds he was dead. The only reason he even got a kill was because the ninja unfortunately choose to initiate the combat via his scouting when he tried to stealth into Alderns Lair and Aldern spotted him.
Anyway, the party defeated Aldern and I had Iesha crying, I know shes a Revenant but I was going to have it be that shortly after Aldern was slain she would come back to her senses and wipe her tears just long enough to finally destroy Vorel. But just as I was about to say this, the Fighter said
F: So, what is Iesha doing.
Me: She is crying softly over Alderns now unmoving undead corpse.
F: Alright.. I attempt to end her life while she is doing so.
Me: Ah.. uh.. ok yeah go ahead and swing.
Normally i don't simply interrupt box text type situations, but he reacted so quickly to me saying she is crying that I let him do it. I view this as a consequence we all face, our own choices.
So Vorel isn't gone, they set him on fire. Which wont kill him. And now are planning on leaving foxglove for sandpoint to heal up and simply come back and burn the entire house down. I already know that isn't going to do much. As Vorel will just repair slowly anything that is done to the house. Ad least as far as i can tell he does. So I'm rather unsure of what to do here as far as story is concerned. I mean they slew their one way to truly lift the Haunt. So... advice?
Question 1 suggestion: Have you tried maxing the enemy HP? That may give them a bit more staying power against your group and is a quick fix for you.
Question 2 suggestion: There's a couple of ways you could handle it. You can just not award the XP for exorcising Vorel's spirit from the house and let it stand that Foxglove Manor is still haunted. Removing the haunts isn't necessary to continue the rest of the adventure path.
If the group insists on handling the situation now they could hire a high level cleric in Magnimar to travel to the manor with them and cast one of the requisites spells to dispel the spirit. I've read other posts where groups have done just that.
I'd not have allowed Iesha to de-spookify the house anyway. My group actually attacked while she was still mirror-bound - I gave her a fresh save and she attacked the cleric who foolishly thought Channel Energy would work easily on Iesha. ;) (After which the Barbarian proceeded to lay waste to her. Three hits. Okay, the Barbarian was under Bull Strength, which literally was needed for the third hit to take Iesha down...)
You should have attacked the Fighter instead. There is one reason. Each successful hit requires a saving throw. You could have gotten the Fighter as well. Or at least made the fight a tad more dramatic. (Of course, if the Ninja was the focus of Aldern's interest, then it makes sense.)
I agree with blue drake, removing the haunts is not necessary..in my game I just had father Zantus gather 3 or 4 more clerics and go back with my PCs to the haunted house to make some kind of a ritual in front of "Vorel". The PCs had to face some of the haunts again but now without worrying about their life so it was kind of funny session! My players dont really care about the spells and stuff like that, its just the story for them most of the times, so they didnt asked what father Zantus is trying to do (no Spellcraft check was asked, which was nice for me as a Dm because I dont know what a lvl 4 cleric could even do in such a case :P)
Finally I dont think that they can burn the house down..If I remember correctly the manor "attacks" the ones that try to do stuff like that with spells like suggestion or phantasmal killer..
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Well they are level 6 right now, and I don't think they have any spells that can work. But your right it isn't required for them to get rid of the haunts. I'm not sure if they are going to try or not. I'm ready either way though.
I'll present them with the option of finding a Cleric in Magnimar who might do just that.
hm.. but what if they don't go back and get Vorel? Could I.. turn him into some kinda Lich that shows up to fight them? Where in the adventure would that work best?
Edit: Also ty for the advice, and I think maxing some of their Hp's would solve a few things. I'm going to run feast of Ravenmoor and then Dawn of the Scarlet sun as time fillers.
If you want to brings orzel back as a lich, somewhere in book 5 might work best.
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Well, actually, if the group comes back to set fire to the house...it doesn't catch on fire. Describe to them the fire starting to lick up the walls when it slowly snuffs out. Let them figure out what to do next: require knowledge rolls if they're stuck. Oh, and don't give them any hints anymore on the difficult fights, let them figure that out on their own, too. ;-)
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The player whose character died recently at foxglove has looked up information about haunts and is of course certain he can meat the basic spell requirements to banish Vorel, whats funny is that I'm still going to make him role skill checks to figure it out in game, no cheating now! lol. He is rolling a dwarven cleric focused on crafting, see other post here also for advice on said crafting. http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pt5x?What-is-the-total-discount-a-crafter-can- get#1
Right now they are about to depart for magnimar (though they will of course be side tracked to ravenmoor for a side quest), or return to the manor to attempt Vorels exorcism. However i had Father Zantus advise them to simply not go back as now it is aware of them as a true danger, and will most likely attack them with everything it has as soon as they return. If they choose to not go back, I'll bring him back into the adventure later. I add libbed the necromancer into the manor as a person who was captured by Aldern to assist in creating more ghouls and more horrible undead that would obey him.
I think I'll have that necromancer be ' possessed ' or something by vorel even if they go back so that no matter what they will be able to look forward to a tough added in battle in the future. Now you say book 5 is the best place? where in that book would be best you think?
not trying to be lazy, just trying to make it actually make some sense.
Edit: The necromancer from the insane asylum. They never found him and had no hints what so ever about what was going on there. I think that encounter assumes the pc's have absolutely no manners when it comes to invading peoples privacy. My guys actually left when they killed the guy turning into a ghoul, because the doctor freaked out. Saying he could have still saved him! And that his condition may or may not have be curable.. I mean hell hes got a wererat two cells over. So while he may be a pioneer in the field of mental sciences, he isn't exactly learned in the field of religion or arcane arts.
I don't even really think the Necromancer and he talk much given their story line. More along the line of a working relationship that the owner of the Asylum regrets and would ultimately prefer to not be involved with anymore. Ad least that is how i saw him based on what i read. Perhaps i misinterpreted him and how he would have acted? Even so the encounter seemed relatively pointless and simply existed to take up more time as his presence has nothing to do with the overall story.
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Yeah, Cizarlu is basically XP filler. Though, from my interpretation, he comes to investigate pretty much anything (assuming he hears the altercation—I would think the DC would be relatively low considering all the stomping around on the floor boards above his head).
In your case, no harm, no foul. You could easily put him in somewhere else if you need the extra XP (adjusted appropriately for APL). Perhaps make him the antithesis to Brodert Quink—a Thassilonian scholar with nefarious intentions—he and his zombie bodyguards happen to be poking around the same Thassilonian ruins as the PCs.
As for making things tougher ... I've had this same problem. Plus I have 5 players and an occasional 6th, PCs were 20 pt buy and my players are good optimizers. I've found max HP and the advanced template applied seems to even things out. I'm using hero labs and the portfolio files that are on the d20pfsrd.com site. which makes changing stuff very easy. Well worth the money for hero labs (considering a player let me have his extra license :))
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Ah, btw i use the 3 point system for leveling them up. I put it to a vote, with my vote favoring the 3 points. So it was 2 players for and 2 against, with me being the first vote caste.
Incidentally the older edition players voted for EXP while the newer ones preferred the 3 points.
Yeah 5 players with a 20 point buy is rough. I've not yet had to apply a advanced template to anything, but maxing out Hp's is the first thing I'm going to do. If that fails to provide a challenge, or ad least appear to even things out I may consider using the advanced template. But I've only got 4 players.
hm.... looking over chapter 5 now. hmmm how about adding him into the Ravenous crypts?
Edit: My guys are built on a 20 point buy to. And up until now I've not increased the loot or wealth they found. So I've kinda been using their 20 PB as a reason to give less reward. I'm going to change that though. First by adding in gear and wealth at all locations it can be found, and get them up to where they are supposed to be. For instance, I'm going to have 20,000 gp in Alderns townhouse in magnimar, in the form of 2000 Platinum Pieces.
And it doesn't help they miss one item or cache of wealth in the areas it can be found usually. I wont tell them where the treasure is, they still gotta look for it.
Try having players with lucky die rolls on 4d6. ^^;;
The problem being that when they have several highish stats, the thought of "only" a 25-point build is something they become upset with.
That said? The point of the game is to have fun. If they have more fun with high stats? Let them have high stats. Compensate by increasing the hit points and levels (and perhaps stats) of their encounters. You don't even have to award them with extra XPs.