Practice Fields

[Hobs the Short]

Another suggestion from last night's Team Speak discussion was for the possibility of practice fields. Though Ryan has seemed reluctant to consider a sparing or nonlethal combat mechanism, all of us chatting last evening see the need for a means to practice fighting without incurring the various flags and penalties. The most popular idea (suggested by Dario) was that settlements should be able to create a sparing/practice field, perhaps as a place of interest. Within the confines of this space, participants could attack, spar, and even kill one another without incurring the usual negative results.

Possible Uses:

1. A training field for your settlements guards to not only practice together, but jointly with allies.

2. A training facility to help new players learn the basics about combat with a player instructor rather than in the filed against mobs.

3. Neutral or evil settlements could use such a facility as a gladiator pit for entertainment, to settle disputes, earn rank, etc.

By having a designated area for such activities, you avoid the constant duel challenges experienced in other games. Also, these facilities would be easily recognized for what they are, so people couldn't easily be lured in and killed without penalty (these shouldn't become a means of griefing). By attaching them to settlements, the settlement leadership could potentially customize the rules of engagement within the practice field, allowing for more player control of this form of consensual combat.

[Bringslite]

Hobs wrote:

By having a designated area for such activities, you avoid the constant duel challenges experienced in other games.

You would have to somehow disable private wilderness dueling if you want to eliminate it. I am not sure how that could be done in an open PVP environment. Outside dueling still exists in every MMO, that allows it, despite "arena" areas in-game.

[ZenPagan]

I believe Ryan has said duelling was not going to be put in from what someone said in last nights discussion. I think that was before you joined us though

[Nymerias]

I think it is a great idea. It might not be something to be implemented right away, but it really should go down in a "we should really think about this" book.

[Bringslite]

It was...

So was your discussion on storage issues.

That was an even more limited forum though, The issues need to be replayed here for wider input. :)

[ZenPagan]

@Bringslite yes it definitely needs airing here, I was only pointing out that duelling was mentioned in the discussion with the view that we could use that and someone mentioned that Ryan had said there would be no duelling implemented.

[Bringslite]

@ZenPagan Noted and understood. :)

[Bringslite]

Personally, I like that there might not be random dueling. There is nothing more annoying than a tween wanting to prove his "Epeen Power" while you are doing something else.;)

[ZenPagan]

I must admit I always turn off duel requests if it is possible

[Bringslite]

ZenPagan wrote:

I must admit I always turn off duel requests if it is possible

I wonder if that was an option in WOW. If it was, I suffered much annoyance for naught.

[Hardin Steele]

If there is a "Pit Fighter" for individual combat, why not a "Field Simulator" area where larger units can go and "spar en masse". If the mechanics are already in place for singles, it shouldn't be too far of a stretch to mass combat. I wouldn't expect to see it early on, but even that would give mass combat data to GW for fine tuning before releasing the full on settlement v settlement of Kingdom v Kingdom fights we will see later in the game.

[Keign]

If the possibility of dueling exists, I would say perhaps it should only be accessible by having signed up for it on some kind of in-game roster - the Grand Arena, or something like it.

[Deianira]

I'd very much like a non-lethal practice option. Not least because, as a longtime non-PvPer, I'd appreciate help in learning (relearning, really, as the last time I did PvP was in DAoC) to lose the psyvhological "Ohmigod, that person's way better at this than I am, I might as well just get this over with and die..." reaction. It would be MUCH less frustrating to practice - and fail spectacularly a lot in the process - in a friendly and non-lethal setting.

[Wurner]

I think it would be weird if you could only do this kind of thing in a specific area, not from a game mechanics perspective but rather because it wouldn't be very realistic. I can definitely see that people would want to spar with each other, 1 vs 1 and also team vs team. I expect soldier CC's would want to spend quite a lot of time doing this.

A duel mechanic should definitely be in the game, both between individuals and between groups. If people are turned off by the idea of people spamming duel requests, I imagine it could be designed so that there is no popup window prompting you to answer whenever someone wants to duel but rather a small message and button in one corner of the screen that you can just ignore if you are not interested.

Oh, and there should be two kinds of consensual PvP that doesn't give reputation consequenses: non-lethal (for sparring) and to-the-death (for RP situations where you want a real duel).

[Kobold Catgirl]

I think it might be beneficial to have such areas actually require nonlethal attacks, frankly. Sure, it's limiting, but this is just to practice general gameplay, anyways. You want to practice with lethal weapons? Practice in the field.

[Hobs the Short]

Wurner,

Ryan has expressed his disinterest in creating a dueling system separate from the regular combat system (to allow for nonlethal combat). If such a dueling system will not exist world-wide, then you run the risk of gaining the attacker flag (and possibly others) by attacking someone unless you are at war(have a bounty contract on them, etc.). If the NPC guards and the game mechanics as proposed will see such violence as a bad thing if allowed anywhere, then designated locations seem a logical choice. The NPC guards would know that the two people stepping into the practice ring are doing so by choice. From a realism point of view, it also keeps the general citizenry safe. Imagine a city where mages can start up a duel in the middle of the street...think of the possible collateral damage. From that realistic point of view, innocent bystanders won't be put at risk if dueling players only duel in a safe location.

To take the realism of it a step further, out yourself in the shoes of city guards or a road patrol trying to keep the peace. How difficult would their job become if at any second, individual duels keep breaking out. How would they know if the combatants were friends just having some sport or a citizen actually getting accosted?

[Wurner]

Well, the duelling people could be flagged as "sparring" or "dueling" (so many flags in the game already it makes me feel bad to suggest adding even more). There would still be the usual consequences if they were to hit innocent bystanders of course.

In settlements I agree that it would be strange for people to duel in the middle of a crowded marketplace, and the idea of limiting duels to a specific arena or training fields would probably be for the best but I would find it more fun if it was not impossible to duel anywhere, just illegal (if that is what the settlement chooses). That way you could try to find a quiet area to settle your dispute with your rival in a duel but if a guard catches you in the act you get fined/killed/thrown in jail or whatever the punishment system makes possible.

But what is the problem if a soldier company wants to go out in the wilderness for some war games? A nonlethal sparring system would be most useful for that kind of activity since otherwise people would die and "good" soldiers could end up with heavy alignment hits.

[Hobs the Short]

As someone who intends to plan events, I would like there to be a way for people to hold tournaments of martial skill without automatically being flagged "Attacker" and thereby earning the undesired attention of NPC guards. Something like a tournament would be a consensual act that should not set off the flagging system. Seeing as death holds very little sting in PFO, RPers could certainly RP that they were merely knocked unconscious. The only trick would seem to be needing to turn off the possibility of looting within the confines of the practice field. Finally, by allowing such fields to be a constructed feature of settlements, leadership of that settlement could police it's use and ban those who attempt to exploit the feature.

[Being]

If sparring were implemented there should be only specific contexts for Lawful characters (formal training). It might be more general (bar fights, duels, & training) for chaotics. For neutrals, then, only for formal training and duels.

It does seem intuitively right that honor-bound knights would duel but their subservience to law should prohibit such a chaotic expression of honor.

But generally I support the system-wide dissuasion from dueling but that is, I feel, just a personal preference. It feels like a personal affront to be challenged to a meaningless duel, and that affront is compounded by the implications of turning one down. Someone challenging me to a duel when I'm really not in the mood is rather like in college when someone would show up late Thursday night pestering me to go party when I had a big test the next day I need to get some sleep for.

Over against that if someone is being particularly annoying I would occasionally enjoy making them shut up. I suppose that is a significant reason why I don't consider myself properly lawful.