If a wizard with spider climb still active on him is backed against a wall by an orc capable of making multiple attacks of opportunity, and the only escape is up the wall. How many attacks will he take if he moves straight up the wall?
1 because the the square is he starts on is the same space as the wall right behind him, or 2 because the wall is a separate 5 foot square?
and if the answer is 2, is it possible to jump to bypass that square?
One. Each action that provokes an AoO only provokes once.
So a move action, which provokes, only provokes one AoO from each creature the provoking player moves past - regardless of whether that movement is only 10', or 30', or a hasted 60', etc.
If the player moves (provoking), then casts a ranged touch spell (provoking), then attacks with said ranged touch (ranged attacks provoke), then 3 AoO's are granted - assuming of course his initial movement didn't take him out of the threatening range.
Think of the "grid" system as actually a 3-D grid with 5' squares (actually cubes in the 3-D model) going up (or down) from ground level. I know, people are usually around 6' tall so when they stand on the floor, their feet, legs, and torso are in one square (cube) and their heads are in the next cube above. But for gamist simplicity (and because it doesn't apply to dwarves, halflings, or gnomes, or anyone crouching enough) we just assume a 6' tall character fits into a 5'x5'x5' cube.
In the OP's scenario, (diagram below) when he climbs 5' up the wall he is now in a different cube (b) than he was when he started (a). And even an orc with a dagger (or a bite) can threaten this cube just fine, since it begins at his shoulder level and nearly all of it is within arm's reach). When he climbs another 5' up the wall, he is in a new cube again (c), but this time he is out of the orc's normal reach (unless that orc has a reach weapon).
So, leaving the first cube provokes. Leaving the second cube provokes again but wouldn't matter much unless the orc has Combat Reflexes. Leaving the 3rd (or subsequent) cubes does not provoke. If he uses the Withdraw action, the first cube is safe (doesn't provoke) but he still provokes leaving the second cube.
Diagram: (side view, O = Orc, g = ground, w = wall, a, b, c = squares of movement)
......w
.....cw
.....bw
..Oaw
ggggg
would it take 5 ft of movement to move from the ground to the wall(both in the A cube?
and to clarify there isn't ever an Aoo provoked by moving from ground to wall?
So, leaving the first cube provokes. Leaving the second cube provokes again but wouldn't matter much unless the orc has Combat Reflexes. Leaving the 3rd (or subsequent) cubes does not provoke.
Emphasis mine. This is wrong.
Combat Reflexes and Additional Attacks of Opportunity: If you have the Combat Reflexes feat, you can add your Dexterity modifier to the number of attacks of opportunity you can make in a round. This feat does not let you make more than one attack for a given opportunity, but if the same opponent provokes two attacks of opportunity from you, you could make two separate attacks of opportunity (since each one represents a different opportunity). Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same opponent in the same round doesn't count as more than one opportunity for that opponent. All these attacks are at your full normal attack bonus.
Emphasis mine.
So, leaving the first cube provokes. Leaving the second cube provokes again but wouldn't matter much unless the orc has Combat Reflexes. Leaving the 3rd (or subsequent) cubes does not provoke.Emphasis mine. This is wrong.
Combat Reflexes and Additional Attacks of Opportunity: If you have the Combat Reflexes feat, you can add your Dexterity modifier to the number of attacks of opportunity you can make in a round. This feat does not let you make more than one attack for a given opportunity, but if the same opponent provokes two attacks of opportunity from you, you could make two separate attacks of opportunity (since each one represents a different opportunity). Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same opponent in the same round doesn't count as more than one opportunity for that opponent. All these attacks are at your full normal attack bonus.Emphasis mine.
Good point. I knew that. It was even bugging me as I wrote it but I ignored myself.
So the point that it provokes again only applies if he didn't take the first AoO (chose not to, or couldn't because of Withdraw, etc.).
would it take 5 ft of movement to move from the ground to the wall(both in the A cube?
and to clarify there isn't ever an Aoo provoked by moving from ground to wall?
I think you could argue it either way and I don't know of any rules to cover it.
1. You're in a 5'x5'x5' cube. Moving from one cube to an adjacent cube requires you to move about 5 feet. It doesn't matter if that cube is in front of you, next to you, or above you (assuming you can climb like a spider) so it's all just 5 feet of movement.
or
2. Your feet are on the floor. Moving them to a square next to you is 5 feet of movement. Moving them to the wall behind you still requires 5 feet of movement (roughly from the center of the floor square to the center of the wall square) even though both squares are the same cube, it's still 5 feet of your movement to get from floor to wall.
I think either ruling would be valid (1 is more gamist, 2 is more simulationist) so pick whichever one fits your style.
So the point that it provokes again only applies if he didn't take the first AoO (chose not to, or couldn't because of Withdraw, etc.).
I disagree. Movement provokes for leaving the first square. If the Orc chooses not to take that swing, leaving the 2nd square does not provoke.
If instead he withdraws, the first square is not considered threatened. So leaving it does not provoke. The second square is still threatened, so leaving that square would still provoke a second time.
If, during the process of withdrawing, you move out of a threatened square (other than the one you started in), enemies get attacks of opportunity as normal.
would it take 5 ft of movement to move from the ground to the wall(both in the A cube?
You didn't leave the square (cube). On the surface (pardon the pun) it seems you had to walk the same distance as it would take to move to a another square. However, while the distance between the center of two squares on the floor is 5 feet, the distance between the center of a square on the floor to one on the wall is only about 3.5 feet.
Since you wouldn't make a creature spend 5 feet of movement for a creature that can fly to hover in the same square, I don't think I would make a climbing creature spend any movement either.
and to clarify there isn't ever an Aoo provoked by moving from ground to wall?
Changing movement types do not trigger attacks of opportunity.
An argument could be made that it is a distracting act. However, I don't think I would want to set a precedent that changing movement types provokes attacks of opportunity.
Of course I think if I was another DM's table and he ruled the opposite of either or both of the above rulings I wouldn't get too upset.
So the point that it provokes again only applies if he didn't take the first AoO (chose not to, or couldn't because of Withdraw, etc.).I disagree. Movement provokes for leaving the first square. If the Orc chooses not to take that swing, leaving the 2nd square does not provoke.
You provoke for moving out of any square not just the first one.
"Moving out of a threatened square usually provokes attacks of opportunity from threatening opponents."
If the orc doesn't take his AoO when you leave the first square, he can change is mind and attack when you leave the second square.
I agree that no movement is used until you are in the 5' cube above where you started.
Climbing itself does not provoke, but it does make you flat-footed. Going to spider climb:
The subject can climb and travel on vertical surfaces or even traverse ceilings as well as a spider does. The affected creature must have its hands free to climb in this manner. The subject gains a climb speed of 20 feet and a +8 racial bonus on Climb skill checks; furthermore, it need not make Climb checks to traverse a vertical or horizontal surface (even upside down). A spider climbing creature retains its Dexterity bonus to Armor Class (if any) while climbing, and opponents get no special bonus to their attacks against it. It cannot, however, use the run action while climbing.
It specifically states that you retain your dex to AC, and opponents get no special bonus to attacking it.
You provoke for moving out of any square not just the first one.
"Moving out of a threatened square usually provokes attacks of opportunity from threatening opponents."
If the orc doesn't take his AoO when you leave the first square, he can change is mind and attack when you leave the second square.
Referencing what I posted above:
Combat Reflexes and Additional Attacks of Opportunity: If you have the Combat Reflexes feat, you can add your Dexterity modifier to the number of attacks of opportunity you can make in a round. This feat does not let you make more than one attack for a given opportunity, but if the same opponent provokes two attacks of opportunity from you, you could make two separate attacks of opportunity (since each one represents a different opportunity). Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same opponent in the same round doesn't count as more than one opportunity for that opponent. All these attacks are at your full normal attack bonus.
Only the first square counts, if he chooses not to take his AoO then, he cannot take one for any subsequent squares.
Withdraw specifically states the first square is not threatened. It also specifically states that if you leave any other threatened squares (other than the first) they can then make their AoO.
Combat Reflexes and Additional Attacks of Opportunity: If you have the Combat Reflexes feat, you can add your Dexterity modifier to the number of attacks of opportunity you can make in a round. This feat does not let you make more than one attack for a given opportunity, but if the same opponent provokes two attacks of opportunity from you, you could make two separate attacks of opportunity (since each one represents a different opportunity). Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same opponent in the same round doesn't count as more than one opportunity for that opponent. All these attacks are at your full normal attack bonus.Only the first square counts, if he chooses not to take his AoO then, he cannot take one for any subsequent squares.
The line in bold is there to prevent a character from making multiple attacks of opportunity (using combat reflexes) to a single enemy that leaves multiple threatened squares, not to limit you to only attacking when they first provoke. Otherwise, why is this under the Combat Reflexes section rather than in the section on moving?
So the point that it provokes again only applies if he didn't take the first AoO (chose not to, or couldn't because of Withdraw, etc.).I disagree. Movement provokes for leaving the first square. If the Orc chooses not to take that swing, leaving the 2nd square does not provoke.
That's part of the Combat Reflexes rule. If you have not taken any AoOs this turn, then you are not using Combat Reflexes (regardless of whether you have it or not - your first AoO each turn does not require using that feat).
If the guy moves out of a threatened square and you do not use an AoO, then he moves out of another threatened square, Combat Reflexes do not apply. So the rule about leaving a threatened square applies, which provokes an AoO if you want to take it.
Moving: Moving out of a threatened square usually provokes attacks of opportunity from threatening opponents. There are two common methods of avoiding such an attack—the 5-foot step and the withdraw action.
Any square threatened by an opponent from which you move (without using a withdraw or 5' step) provokes. Not just the first square. Combat reflexes limits you to a single AoO for movement during a round. It places no limits on which part of the movement your AoO may take place in, so long as you threaten squares along that movement path.