An inquisitor attempting to sunder the weapon of an opponent having already activated the inquisitor's bane (Su) ability:
Bane (Su): At 5th level, an inquisitor can imbue one of her weapons with the bane weapon special ability as a swift action. She must select one creature type when she uses this ability (and a subtype if the creature type selected is humanoid or outsider)...
At the time of the sunder attempt, the bane (Su) ability had already been designated to the proper creature type/subtype, against which the inquisitor was engaged in combat:
Bane: A bane weapon excels against certain foes. Against a designated foe, the weapon's enhancement bonus is +2 better than its actual bonus. It also deals an extra 2d6 points of damage against the foe. To randomly determine a weapon's designated foe, roll on the following table.
In this circumstance, the inquisitor is wielding a longsword with a +2 enhancement bonus, while the opponent is wielding a longbow with a +3 enhancement bonus. It is my understanding, though I cannot find the verbiage for the rule to post here, that a weapon must have an equal or greater enhancement bonus in order to damage a magic weapon/armor.
In this case, would a longsword with a +2 enhancement bonus and with the bane (Su) activated be able to damage a longbow with a +3 enhancement bonus? Our group discussed this at length and wanted to put this question to the messageboards. Would the verbiage regarding the inquisitor Bane (Su)...
...Against a designated foe, the weapon's enhancement bonus is +2 better than its actual bonus...
...allow a +2 enhancement bonus longsword to act as if it had a +4 total enhancement bonus, for the purposes of sundering the weapon of the designated bane (Su) target?
Wait, that rule is still around? I can't seem to find it
I thought any weapon can sunder any other weapon regardless of enhancement bonus..
I think in PF it very much can
I fear it may be an old reminiscent rule from 3.5 that held the idea of "you must be this tall to damage this weapon." I can see the Shatterspike specific weapon being a bit misleading on this topic as well..
But essentially the higher the enhancement bonuses on a weapon, the tougher it is. Makes sense. Stronger magic gives me a more enduring blade, but it may not be enough to withstand a few blows from a Fire Giant's mundane greatsword. Ooph
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1) The rule has been completely removed with the 5th edition of the CRB. Even before I think it was only an error in updating some old text from the OGL.
So even a normal weapon can sunder a magical one.
2) Someone weapon isn't him, so bane wouldn't help when sundering the weapon, as you are targeting the weapon, not the creature.
Thanks for the information. As I currently cannot find any rule that basically states, "a weapon must have an equal or greater enhancement bonus in order to damage a magic item," I must have been mistaken regarding this. Maybe there was never a rule like this and I was simply confused.
However, Malag, I think you have raised an interesting question:
How can you sunder a weapon with Bane if weapon isn't a creature type? Bane affects only certain creature types, not their weapons or armor.
I would argue the +2 enhancement bonus granted by the inquisitor's Bane (Su) ability, when engaged in combat with the selected creature type/subtype, could be used during a sunder attempt against that creature's weapon or armor. Here are a few reasons how I would justify this.
The way I read the Pathfinder rules, it is in the spirit of the game to treat characters and their gear as one and the same. By this I mean, the game mechanics/rules do not seem to differentiate between the armor of a character and his/her skin. I partially reached this conclusion because magic items carried by a character can use that character's saving throw as their own.
Magical Items: Magic items always get saving throws. A magic item's Fortitude, Reflex, and Will save bonuses are equal to 2 + half its caster level. An attended magic item either makes saving throws as its owner or uses its own saving throw bonus, whichever is better.
As stated above, a magic item can use a characters Will or Fort saving throw as their own. To me this means, in the spirit of the game, a character and his/her gear are one entity. They share saving throws. And a character and his/her magic items sharing a saving helps to illustrate that a character and their gear are one, especially when referring to will and fort.
Furthermore, when the Bane (Su) ability is activated against the selected creature type, the weapon's enhancement bonus is treated as +2 better than its actual bonus. As an example, if an inquisitor was conducting a melee attack against the selected creature type, the inquisitor would receive a +2 bonus to attack and damage. In order to succeed at this melee attack, the inquisitor's melee attack would have to meet or exceed the creatures Armor Class (Armor Class being a function of armor bonus, shield bonus, Dexterity modifier, etc.). In this instance, the inquisitor's bane (Su) ability is used to overcome a creature's armor and shield, though the armor and shield are not specifically selected as the type/subtype for bane.
If, so far as I understand the game mechanics, pathfinder did not intend to treat a character and his/her gear (armor) as one in the same, the equivalent +2 bonus granted by bane could then also not be used to overcome armor class even when preforming a melee attack, as part of the armor class mechanic includes armor bonus and shield bonus.
In these examples, If a character and his/her gear were not one in the same, would the equivalent +2 enhancement bonus granted by bane work only when engaged in combat with a creature using only natural amor and dex (or a naked opponent, for that matter)?
I apologize for this longwinded example and post, but it was a hopeful attempt to show that it is my understanding that within pathfinder, a character and his/armor are treated as one for the purposes of simplicity regarding game mechanics. And from this standpoint, when using the bane (Su) ability against a designated creature, an inquisitor would still retain the equivalent +2 enhancement bonus granted by bane when attempting a sunder attack against that creatures weapon or armor.
A sunder is an attack against the creature, hence why it targets the creature's CMD. Ergo, your bane bonuses apply to your sunder attempt.
Thanks for the input/explanation, Ravingdork. And it was a much more succinct answer than mine :)