Goblin Squad Member
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I recently returned to Lord of the Rings Online (I have a lifetime account, so once in a while, I go back and lurk about). One of the features they have (which I don't recall from five years ago when I last played) is that your creature loot is held in a queue or sorts, and if you don't click on the item in the queue to drop it in your pack, it is deleted after a certain amount of time.
The one part that I dislike is that you can claim this loot where ever you are during that "claim period", so being an archer, I never have to go anywhere near my kill to loot it. My problem with this is that I don't have to risk being attacked by other critters to go fetch the goods on what I've just killed. Yes, I'm one of those...I like things to seem more realistic, even if they put me at a disadvantage. :)
So the question is, what looting mechanism has GW decided to use? Will you have to open the corpse to collect the goods, will you have to target the skinnable critter's corpse to skin it or will killing it just dump the hide in your pack like LotRO? As soon as looting is brought up, inevitably, the questions about looting rights (first hit gets it, majority of damage has claim, everybody gets a copy of the goods, etc.), but for now, I mainly am interested in "how" the loot is acquired from the corpse.
Incidentally Hobs I answered your call out in the pax shoutbox for lotro people last night but think you may have gone by then. Difficult to tell without timestamps.
Did you find someone in the end, if not feel free to PM me to let me know what you are after and I will ensure someone appropriate is told
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Goblin Squad Member
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It has been mentioned to loot a corpse it will require a number of seconds "inspecting" it. I believe there is limited acquisition and then the corpse is destroyed once that has been achieved ie it's limited looting (both threading and random item for the looter of the non-threaded items; subsequently are lost).
So I don't think there is any selection process involved? But it can be interrupted, hencing guarding a corpse is effective. As far as I remember.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I like the Ida that you have to inspect a corpse before looting it. I would also like the idea that you do not trigger the "Thief flag" unless you actually take an item. Both I suspect will be this way.
As for actually looting, I would like to have option to "loot all" for all corpses in my immediate area (5 foot radius) if I'm not interested in inspecting first.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Avena,
I did not mean looting a corpse of a killed player...I was interested how they would handle looting the corpse of a monster or an animal. Also, does something like skinning an animal involve clicking on the corpse and activating your skinning skill, or will skins just be a type of loot like in LotRO (but you still need a skill to turn them into leather)?
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Goblin Squad Member
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When it comes to looting, I would very much prefer a separate looting or interaction button like in GW2. The most annoying thing about WoW and other games like SWTOR to me is that you have to first stand next to a lootable corpse and second point your mouse over the corpse and third right click. It's exhausting. Wheh! What a drag, even to think about it. The mouse pointing is the most bothersome thing ever in looting.
When a character is standing next to a lootable corpse a simple keyboard key should be enough to loot.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I wonder if there will be various skills: Scavenge, butcher, smelt-down, skin etc?
argument in favour of skinning skill etc:
IIRC, in harvesting operations the quality of the material obtained will be MIN(node quality, harvester skill). "Harvesting mobs" should follow the same rules. The cost of training the skill (and requirements to get the badge) can be tuned to achieve the wanted impact on economy and behaviour.(Is there any lore for mining dead earth elementals og sawing up treants? I would expect that to be top quality material)
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Goblin Squad Member
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I wonder if there will be various skills: Scavenge, butcher, smelt-down, skin etc?argument in favour of skinning skill etc:
IIRC, in harvesting operations the quality of the material obtained will be MIN(node quality, harvester skill). "Harvesting mobs" should follow the same rules. The cost of training the skill (and requirements to get the badge) can be tuned to achieve the wanted impact on economy and behaviour.(Is there any lore for mining dead earth elementals og sawing up treants? I would expect that to be top quality material)
There is mention of gleaning materials for special crafting components from monsters. Nothing specific yet but I love where you are going with that. :)
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Goblin Squad Member
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I tried to address this very issue in Feature Request: Looting in PvE.
I absolutely despise waiting on slow looters. I liked LOTRO's auto-loot, but agree that it should at least require you to approach the corpse.
Automatically distribute as much as possible, and make it possible to trade all of it so we can redistribute it as we see fit later.
If you absolutely must make it impossible to trade, then distribute it to everyone in the group (that's eligible) as slivers on each kill.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Automatically distribute as much as possible, and make it possible to trade all of it so we can redistribute it as we see fit later.
If you absolutely must make it impossible to trade, then distribute it to everyone in the group (that's eligible) as slivers on each kill.
There's really very little reason for anything in this game to be Bind on Pickup or Bind on Equip.
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Goblin Squad Member
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There's really very little reason for anything in this game to be Bind on Pickup or Bind on Equip.Automatically distribute as much as possible, and make it possible to trade all of it so we can redistribute it as we see fit later.
If you absolutely must make it impossible to trade, then distribute it to everyone in the group (that's eligible) as slivers on each kill.
Accept the fact that, at least to start, there is no item decay. BoP & BoE can be another item drain. Some might see it as good for crafters.
I will go on record, though, stating that I hate BoP & BoE.
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Goblin Squad Member
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There's really very little reason for anything in this game to be Bind on Pickup or Bind on Equip.Automatically distribute as much as possible, and make it possible to trade all of it so we can redistribute it as we see fit later.
If you absolutely must make it impossible to trade, then distribute it to everyone in the group (that's eligible) as slivers on each kill.
Accept the fact that, at least to start, there is no item decay. BoP & BoE can be another item drain. Some might see it as good for crafters.
I will go on record, though, stating that I hate BoP & BoE.
On the flip side, lack of item decay means that you don't make your money flooding the market with level 5 longswords. New weapons and armor will often be comissioned items (Fighter X approaches Smith Y and says "Make me a sword with these qualities") as players get more threads, and can safely thread higher quality gear, which promotes personal interaction, while crafter's day to day income is made from mass produced consumables.
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Goblinworks Game Designer
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As others have pointed out, you'll need to be next to the husk and avoid getting interrupted by taking damage (damage keeps you from accessing the loot during the waiting period, and knocks you out of the loot panel).
We'll try to add whatever convenience features we can get in. You probably don't want it too convenient, though; in addition to searching the husk taking time you may not have if you're still in a fight, auto-looting all may load you down with heavy things that you might not want. You may not want your victim's entire collection of low-Quality logs slowing you down when his buddies are coming in for payback.
We don't currently expect to have item binding (in the sense that they cannot be given to/stolen by others once you've picked them up or equipped them).
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Goblin Squad Member
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As others have pointed out, you'll need to be next to the husk and avoid getting interrupted by taking damage (damage keeps you from accessing the loot during the waiting period, and knocks you out of the loot panel).
We'll try to add whatever convenience features we can get in. You probably don't want it too convenient, though; in addition to searching the husk taking time you may not have if you're still in a fight, auto-looting all may load you down with heavy things that you might not want. You may not want your victim's entire collection of low-Quality logs slowing you down when his buddies are coming in for payback.
We don't currently expect to have item binding (in the sense that they cannot be given to/stolen by others once you've picked them up or equipped them).
Yah! Item decay would still be a wish though. Pretty, pretty, please. =P
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Goblin Squad Member
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Item decay is an important feature to keep the crafting community active. (For that matter, requiring some low level materials even in high level recipes is important as well.) Items wear out and need repair, but item decay means all items that are used will need ot be replaced over time. IT is a healthy thing for the overall economy. I noticed a mention that item decay should occur substantially faster in more powerful items. In general I would agree with the sentiment, but haven't analyzed the impact if it. Interesting concept though.
For really powerful items faster item decay would keep one settlement from hoarding too many powerful relics or artifacts at once, which is also a good thing.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Hardin Steele We are in agreement about item decay.
I will take the opposite position concerning swifter decay for top tier items. Top lvl crafters along with rare materials will make top tier items more scarce to start with. I can see crafters and consumers focusing on medium tier for the better lifespan and the significant cost reduction, to the detriment of high lvl crafting. Swifter decay for artifacts/relics seems contradictory in nature. Aren't artifacts/relics generally thought of as "old", important, and powerful items?
The best ways to keep groups from hoarding top tier items is materials scarcity, recipe scarcity, difficulty achieving necessary skill to craft, and (of course) force of arms.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Fair enough. But decay is one way of keeping a hoard of artifacts in one settlement. Maybe not at a faster rate, but some sort of decay might be in order, maybe.
Another way is to crash the whole settlement and steal them, but then the winner would have even more! I would also like to see a way (by means of a difficult quest, I think) for good parties to destroy evil artifacts, and vice versa. That could help keep the artifacts to a managable number!
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Goblin Squad Member
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Crashing and bashing may make the looters more powerful or if the item is not some of the random loot selected from the pile, cause the item's destruction and loss. Also, regular fighting with the item equipped will eventually wear it down.
I like the idea of good or evil missions to be able to target top tier weapons/items somehow. That is if the weapons/items are alignment dependent. It would make alot of sense and add alot of combat and other interaction just to track the things down. Great fun! =P
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Goblin Squad Member
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You're also assuming that a Settlement or Charter/Guild sitting on a load of rare and expensive artefacts/high end crafting gear won't suffer from Ninja-Looters or active PC Thieves looking to get their hands on such powerful items to sell to the highest bidder.
Definitely if that kind of mischief is allowed in-game then it will be even more difficult to stockpile top gear. I doubt that such things will be practical. Criminal flag will make it difficult, at best, to survive such an attempt.
Interesting to see how far they expand the rogue's roll.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Wouldn't item decay just make threading higher end gear less useful? What could you viably use to repair a quality 300 blade with six keywords you got custom-made, except another quality 300 blade? Those would be a pretty rare thing to find, and item decay might make it a requirement that some get torn apart to stock repair kits.
I would understand the addition of item decay, but I'm pretty sure we bandit types will be ridding the world of enough items that it will work as a de facto type of decay.
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Goblin Squad Member
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For reference...
We don't currently have a concept of item degradation/repair. You'll use consumables to temporarily boost certain gear in effectiveness, which likely expire when you die, and we're hoping that will cover enough of the intended effects of a degrade/repair cycle to not require such a system. But we'll be able to say more for certain later, once we get a better picture of the actual usage patterns for items.
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Goblin Squad Member
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For reference...
We don't currently have a concept of item degradation/repair. You'll use consumables to temporarily boost certain gear in effectiveness, which likely expire when you die, and we're hoping that will cover enough of the intended effects of a degrade/repair cycle to not require such a system. But we'll be able to say more for certain later, once we get a better picture of the actual usage patterns for items.
Yes but We Crafters will whine until...well, until forever. Consumables are a way to make gold. That is true and appreciated. It is somehow just not as satisfying as crafting the perfect blade or suit of armor, because Joe's broke again.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Yes but We Crafters will whine until...well, until forever. Consumables are a way to make gold. That is true and appreciated. It is somehow just not as satisfying as crafting the perfect blade or suit of armor, because Joe's broke again.
I plan to be a crafter, and again, urge you to look at it from another perspective. You will craft items like weapons and armor as direct commissions. People will come to you and say "I need a sword that does X, Y, and Z." The crafting of that sword will be more significant, because it's a commissioned item, built out of personal interaction between the consumer and the crafter, not a commodity. It disincentivizes flooding the market.
Put another way, would you rather have people walk up to the local AH and go "I need a +2 silver flaming sharp sword... Search.... Seventy five for sale, this one's cheapest, click." or "I need a +2 silver flaming sharp sword. I know Bringslite is a master swordsmith, and can craft a weapon like that. I will seek him out and have him fashion it for me." Then, instead of grabbing one from the pile you keep in the back room holding the table up, you instead craft it for him to his specifications.
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Goblin Squad Member
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You're also assuming that a Settlement or Charter/Guild sitting on a load of rare and expensive artefacts/high end crafting gear won't suffer from Ninja-Looters or active PC Thieves looking to get their hands on such powerful items to sell to the highest bidder.Definitely if that kind of mischief is allowed in-game then it will be even more difficult to stockpile top gear. I doubt that such things will be practical. Criminal flag will make it difficult, at best, to survive such an attempt.
Interesting to see how far they expand the rogue's roll.
A smart thief will use the threading system to his or her advantage. They do not have to get clean away with the stolen item. They only need to possess it long enough to equip it and thread it. Then even in death, they will still have the item. The test of what they carried would either be looted or destroyed.
Same goes with an Assassin. He only has one mission objective, kill the mark. Escape is preferred but not required to fulfil the contract.
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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Items will exit the world every time a player corpse is looted. The thread mechanic will adjust that toward the lower-quality items, but no player will be able to thread a complete set of high-quality equipment. If you want to have the best chance of winning, you will lose top-tier equipment if you lose. If combatants on both sides work with the best equipment, something will be destroyed.
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Goblin Squad Member
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They only need to possess it long enough to equip it and thread it. Then even in death, they will still have the item.
I expect that "threading equipment" might be one of those things that you have to go back to town or find another suitable place to do. I'm not sure whether I think Hideouts should count as a suitable place for that.
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Goblin Squad Member
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They only need to possess it long enough to equip it and thread it. Then even in death, they will still have the item.I expect that "threading equipment" might be one of those things that you have to go back to town or find another suitable place to do. I'm not sure whether I think Hideouts should count as a suitable place for that.
I don't think Bluddwolf was talking about taking items to hideouts. He was talking about thieves in settlements stealing a top shelf item and threading it right away. If he can't escape he can still take it with him. Theft successful through death.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I would argue that if the blade broke, it wasn't perfect.
It is somehow just not as satisfying as crafting the perfect blade or suit of armor, because Joe's broke again.
Even Narsil got broken.
That is the thing see...the drive to craft The Perfect Sword.
Besides, you don't know Joe. He ends up breaking everything! ;)
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Goblin Squad Member
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A smart thief will use the threading system to his or her advantage. They do not have to get clean away with the stolen item. They only need to possess it long enough to equip it and thread it. Then even in death, they will still have the item. The test of what they carried would either be looted or destroyed.
Even under the assumption that a thief can thread his loot on the field, there still lies one problem with that assumption. In order to win that match (or be intimidating enough for his opponent to not laugh in his face on the SAD) The thief also is wearing comparable gear to his victim. meaning assuming he even can... the thief still has to un-thread something of comparable value. Now that may accomplish the goal of ruining the victims day as if someone kills the thief, he only has a chance of recovering something of comperable value, which still will result in a large net loss due to the time wasted in attempting to exchange that Dagger of cruel backstabbery for a replacement for his barbarian club of thud.
of course that is a factor without the threading system, as at least from my understanding most unthreaded stuff is destroyed anyway, odds of the item you care about happening to survive 2 deaths in a row, aren't that high no matter how you slice the cake.
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Goblin Squad Member
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A smart thief will use the threading system to his or her advantage. They do not have to get clean away with the stolen item. They only need to possess it long enough to equip it and thread it. Then even in death, they will still have the item. The test of what they carried would either be looted or destroyed.
Even under the assumption that a thief can thread his loot on the field, there still lies one problem with that assumption. In order to win that match (or be intimidating enough for his opponent to not laugh in his face on the SAD) The thief also is wearing comparable gear to his victim. meaning assuming he even can... the thief still has to un-thread something of comparable value. Now that may accomplish the goal of ruining the victims day as if someone kills the thief, he only has a chance of recovering something of comperable value, which still will result in a large net loss due to the time wasted in attempting to exchange that Dagger of cruel backstabbery for a replacement for his barbarian club of thud.
of course that is a factor without the threading system, as at least from my understanding most unthreaded stuff is destroyed anyway, odds of the item you care about happening to survive 2 deaths in a row, aren't that high no matter how you slice the cake.
LOL We were discussing what the possibilities of thieves entering settlements and stealing top tier items from storage. Could they do it? Could they escape the guards?
Nothing to do with, caravans, SADs, hideouts, etc....
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Goblin Squad Member
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Bringslite wrote:
HalfOrc with a Hat of Disguise wrote:
You're also assuming that a Settlement or Charter/Guild sitting on a load of rare and expensive artefacts/high end crafting gear won't suffer from Ninja-Looters or active PC Thieves looking to get their hands on such powerful items to sell to the highest bidder.
Definitely if that kind of mischief is allowed in-game then it will be even more difficult to stockpile top gear. I doubt that such things will be practical. Criminal flag will make it difficult, at best, to survive such an attempt.
Interesting to see how far they expand the rogue's roll.
A smart thief will use the threading system to his or her advantage. They do not have to get clean away with the stolen item. They only need to possess it long enough to equip it and thread it. Then even in death, they will still have the item. The test of what they carried would either be looted or destroyed.
Same goes with an Assassin. He only has one mission objective, kill the mark. Escape is preferred but not required to fulfil the contract.
For anyone else confused. Bluddwolf is regular font, Bringslite is bold, and HalfOrc is italic. I realize that this is slightly off topic but most threads get derailed sooner or later.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Not off topic, it is about player looting.
@Nihimon
If adventuring parties have to wait to thread new gear, until they reach a settlement.... What a boon for bandits! Which is why I don't want it. I don't want our activities getting nerfed before we even hit EE.
@ whomever
If a thief is looking to steal an item of high value, he would not bring equal gear to be unthreaded, to thread the stolen item.
I can't speak for all but I intend to operate with minimal, threaded gear. That way if I lose in combat, you gain nothing.
As we have a real world example
http://www.find-me-a-gift.co.uk/gifts/the-gift-of-nothing.html
we can guess that nothing should be worth about 2 weeks training give or take a few days
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Goblin Squad Member
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Maybe cursed items are 'critical failures' from Crafting?
And the irony that 'cursed items' can only be removed from you if you are subject to a specific spell or ritual (that should be relatively expensive to cast in terms of both time and components) or if you are killed in PvP. The 'Remove Curse' spell in this application should be difficult, to make Cursed Items something that can really be a problem, rather than "Oh ho-hum *click* <spell casting noises> right, moving on!".
I see a lot of people angry at being griefed seeking out cursed items purely to debuff the Bandits.
Of course, one man's curse is another man's boon. A Combat fanatic might seek out a cursed sword that screams like a banshee every time it's drawn from the scabbard, knowing full well the noise will attract monsters and other PCs, or a Thief might greatly value a cursed Ring of Invisibility that conjures an uncontrolled Wight every time it's power is used, knowing full well that his invisibility will hide him from the Wight, but the Guards trying to capture him won't be so lucky.
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Goblin Squad Member
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LOL We were discussing what the possibilities of thieves entering settlements and stealing top tier items from storage. Could they do it? Could they escape the guards?
Nothing to do with, caravans, SADs, hideouts, etc....
Well I personally consider the idea of theft such as taking items out of storage etc... via anything other than social engineering or taking the city, as highly problematic in and of itself. Such a practice would be a kiss of death to the entire concept of settlements being open to outsiders at all. (say 500 strangers in your city a day, at least 10 of them will likely be theives, no profitable outside market will compensate for the total loss of security caused by 3 lost items a day to your settlement [I'm assuming 70% failure rate for perfect skills due random numbers to make it even half way non-crippling to the game]).
and in the event that such did exist, and somehow all the huge inevitable flaws of undetected theft aren't going to cripple the game, the rule of "you should not be able to have any shot without putting something on the table yourself", IF that sort of theft is implimented, it would absolutely HAVE to have a much HIGHER gear cost requirement. Otherwise you will be looking at hundreds of pure thief alts, that do nothing but steal, even with 99% fail chance as still fully worth the cost, at the chance of a 10 million coin item, in exchange for 99 no loss deaths.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Yay for no item binding. You get your threads for what you really want to keep, but everything else is just an item, which shouldn't be any harder to pass to another player or have looted off my cold, dead body. It's always bothered me that I can't gift some nifty item to another player if I wanted to be generous. Also, I'm a fan of the idea of being able to pass potent "legacy style" items down to others (RPed family members, subordinates in a guild, etc.), but couldn't, because the best items were often bound on equip. Granted, I understand the desire for binding from a game designer's point of view, but my sense of RP realism has always found it annoying. Do the gods in those worlds really have nothing better to do than care if I keep or give away that quest reward...so much so that they create a universal law that magically glues it to my person?
As for that cold, dead body, I agree with the current concept that it requires time to view a dead player's inventory (i.e. the time required to rifle through his pockets and packs). The view of our characters seeming like loot vacuum cleaners, driving by a corpse and magically sucking everything up without pause, not only doesn't allow time for you to be jumped while searching the corpse, but also reinforces that frantic, theme park pace where parties race through dungeons like contestants in the old game show "Beat the Clock". So many of the mechanics in other games seem to specifically cater to the time deprived, go-go-go, frantic casual player for whom convenience is king. Especially in a game where we will not have the constant time crunch of "I can't spend too much time do something frivolous because I have to grind my experience/skills" we should be able to slow down a bit.
My real question is (and as usual, if it was mentioned somewhere else, forgive my limited reading or memory), when you do kill another player, do you get to choose which unthreaded item(s) you wish to pilfer or is it randomly assigned? Realistically, I think you should get to choose. After all, you did do the slaying, possibly because you knew exactly the item your victim has and that you killed them to possess. Getting randomly "rewarded" with a load of some mundane bulk commodity that the poor stiff had in his pack, especially one that might now make you encumbered, seems a bit odd. Rather, if you have been stealthily observing a fellow mining valuable ore, tracked him to a less visible bit of trail, and dispatched him, you know exactly what you're after in his pack and should, realistically, be able to claim that from his corpse if he hasn't threaded it.
Which leads to a final set of questions...
1. How many unthreaded items can you pilfer off a corpse.
2. Are there items that can't be threaded? For example, does a stack of raw materials count as one item, or can such bulk goods even be threaded?