Has anyone run a Rokugan game with the Pathfinder ruleset?
Did you make any changes?
I'm thinking of trying to run something similar, political considerations/intrigue and honor being the driving force for the characters. But I don't want a 'everyone roll a samurai' kinda game.
Any suggestions?
Has anyone run a Rokugan game with the Pathfinder ruleset?
Did you make any changes?I'm thinking of trying to run something similar, political considerations/intrigue and honor being the driving force for the characters. But I don't want a 'everyone roll a samurai' kinda game.
Any suggestions?
I'd just let them roll whatever you want and re-flavor them as you will.
From the old 3.0 OA book, it outlined which classes were legal for the setting and which weren't. In this case, I'd say use that as a basis, then feel free to exclude other classes as you will and re-flavor the rest.
Keep in mind though archetypes though, even if you don't like a class like Magus for the setting for example, Kensai would fit thematically.
Also, you can look at 3rd Party stuff, Green Ronin did a bunch of Eastern Flavor archetypes & Classes IIRC.
I have the 3.0 OA book...hadn't thought of that.
I have the 3.0 OA book...hadn't thought of that.
I would have people think of what clan they ant to play b/c then they could really pick their characters based off that
Phoenix- Definately wizard or sorcerer
Dragon- Monk or maybe a fighter to make a duelists
Crab- Barbarian- good old hida
Mantis- Bow user of some sort
Crane- Bard would make sense for their diplomats- anything that is a bad ass duelist
Unicorn- Barb could work, anything mounted- an Utaku battle maiden would be awesome
Scorpion- NINJA!!!!
Lion- Cavelier, Samurai- Matsu Battle rager. Deathseeker (would kind be a multiclass of samurai and barb
Of course each clan has shugenja, samurai and such but it would make sense to make a character that is in line with clan.... have players look at the family in the clans could help also.... crab might be known for their hida bushi but a hiruma scout (ranger) are pretty sweet.
I have the 3.0 OA book...hadn't thought of that.
It's a thought anyways, since PF core classes are the same. It's up to you to decide what other PF base classes are legal though.
Personally:
Alchemist - Sorta a hard fit for me...
Cavalier/Samurai - Obvious.
Gunslinger - Banned, unless you want a Samurai Vs Guns feel
Inquisitor - Exorcists, I can't remember the term for them off the top
Magus - Kensai swordmasters
Oracle - Mystics
Summoner - Yokai Bindery types
Witch - Re-skinned as one of the OA arcane casters
I have the 3.0 OA book...hadn't thought of that.
It's a thought anyways, since PF core classes are the same. It's up to you to decide what other PF base classes are legal though.
Personally:
Alchemist - Sorta a hard fit for me...
Cavalier/Samurai - Obvious.
Gunslinger - Banned, unless you want a Samurai Vs Guns feel
Inquisitor - Exorcists, I can't remember the term for them off the top
Magus - Kensai swordmasters
Oracle - Mystics
Summoner - Yokai Bindery types
Witch - Re-skinned as one of the OA arcane casters
Inquistor could be a kuni witch hunter- all about killing evil badies, witch could be a bloodspeaker, kensai would make sense for dragon duelists, oracle could be just some kind of shugenja, summoner would look like a phoenix... or a mantis shugenja, they were know for summoning mean sea creatures
I was considering allowing gestalting to an extent, samurai and one other class. The pirmary class levels as normal, while the secondary levels per 2.
So if you wanted a Shugenja, you could play, say, a fire oracle 4/samurai 2. To represent training you may have recieved as an child/adolescent before you chose to pursue magic...
I'm considering allowing firearms, but no gunslingers. So the amateur gunslinger feat and gunsmith would be available, as well as the weapon profs, but none of the hinky other stuff.
Just kicking ideas around...
Also, I hadn't really considered porting the clans themselves over, but I probably should have something similar though.
Would the elemental wizards schools in UM fit the wujen/shugenja better than oracle?
While it's not Rokugan, Rite Publishing offers the Kaidan setting of Japanese horror with an adventure trilogy - Curse of the Golden Spear (link points to first module - The Gift), 3 one-shot modules (including the free download, Frozen Wind), 3 race guides, 2 faction guides - Way of the Samurai and Way of the Yakuza, a haunts guide - #30 Haunts for Kaidan, and just released a mapped ghostly encounter - Haiku of Horror: Autumn Moon Bath House.
After a successful Kickstarter last summer we are in development of a GM's Guide and Players Guide - which will be print books scheduled for release in Oct/Nov 2013. So the setting books aren't released yet.
Most of the archetypes, traits, prestige classes, and feats from the race and faction guides are featured on d20pfsrd.com
While you could certainly run a 'samurai-centric' game in Kaidan, the setting is designed for players to be represented to all levels of society from the lowest caste with the yakuza as members, to the commoner caste, and the samurai caste.
Kaidan is designed to be more authentic to Japanese lore (Kaidan is specifically fantasy Japan, and not other parts of the orient) than many previously released oriental settings, being truer to Japanese folklore and ghost story tradition. As Japanese horror there is definitely some Ravenloft influences as well.
Most of the reviews for Kaidan releases have gotten 4 and 5 stars. There's even one reviewer to Frozen Wind that converted it to L5R rules, so he could use it in his Rokugan game (review on DrivethruRPG).
While you could certainly try a conversion of Rokugan in PF, Kaidan has loads of content specifically for a Pathfinder Japan setting.
Thanks! I'll check it out and mine it for ideas, maybe.
I would recommend the Rokugan book in addition to the Oriental Adventures book - there was a lot of good advice and crunch in there. One of my favorite d20 books of that era.
A few general thoughts - magic in Rokugan is either divine magic or evil (maho blood magic). There are some fringe things like Fox nature magic or the magic of other races, but generally, human magic is all divine magic in D&D terms.
Several magic classes would need to merge into the shugenja. The sorcerer or oracle are probably your best starting points, as 3.0 shugenja weren't prepared casters. Wizards with the elemental schools could fit as well. I would probably use the sorcerer and set each clan's magical practices up as a bloodline, with a feat tree or prestige class for those who fall to blood magic. The maho abilities should be comparatively overpowered to represent its allure.
Alchemist - This could fit reasonably well in some circumstances, though the stranger self-modification stuff would probably be called maho and get you killed.
Barbarian - Both the Crab and the Lion have berserkers, a few other clans might have a limited number
Bard - Not terribly appropriate, though some Crane artist types might fit. You'd have to figure out where their magic comes from.
Cavalier - A fine way to represent samurai
Cleric - merge with shugenja
Druid - generally not available, though some of the minor clans have a similar tradition - I allowed a Fox clan druid in one of my games.
Fighter - This should be at least as common as the samurai class.
Gunslinger - Might be appropriate for gaijin, as guns do exist outside of Rokugan, but using black powder weapons in Rokugan explicitly carries a death sentence, by Imperial edict.
Inquisitor - Good fit for Kuni witch hunters and a few others
Magus - There's a group of elemental-themed warrior-shugenja that work for the Phoenix clan that could easily be magi, but they would be pretty darned rare.
Monk - Common
Oracle - This could make a good base for the shugenja class, with mysteries reflavored as clan/school secrets and some kind of replacement for the curse mechanics, possibly related to devotion to the elements.
Paladin - Probably not available as written.
Ranger - Common in lots of areas.
Sorcerer - Not available/merged into shugenja
Summoner - I could see some kind of name-bound servant creatures like eidolons, but there's nothing quite like a summoner in the Rokugan lore that I remember. Names are very important when summoning things in Rokugan, and extraplanar creatures that steal a name get way more powerful.
Witch - Might make a good base for maho-tsukai if you added some blood sacrifice mechanics to power up what they can do or as hex choices. Could also work for the hedge magic that does exist, but gets looked down on a lot.
Wizard - Not available/merged into shugenja
I have the 4th ED Rokugan rulebook.
I wasn't looking for a direct translation so much, though.
Ah, gotcha. My game was set in Rokugan (well, the Thousand Years of Darkness version of the setting, where evil won), so I tried to do direct translations.
Personally I think it would be enough to have a trait that gave proficiency with the wakizashi and a few social benefits to reflect noble birth - gestalt levels in samurai probably aren't necessary.
I've noticed that in the 5 rings, most people have some martial proficiency, but only true 'bushi' are allowed the use of the katana.
Does that apply only to samurai then? Only they can use katanas?
Ah, gotcha. My game was set in Rokugan (well, the Thousand Years of Darkness version of the setting, where evil won), so I tried to do direct translations.
Personally I think it would be enough to have a trait that gave proficiency with the wakizashi and a few social benefits to reflect noble birth - gestalt levels in samurai probably aren't necessary.
Well, hell. I might as well do a direct translation.
Might make things fit better.
Does that apply only to samurai then? Only they can use katanas?
Actually, no. In feudal Japan, only the samurai could wear the daisho, the twin swords of katana and wakizashi. However, anyone in an administrative position, or high social standing even among the Commoner and Hinin/Eta castes could openly wear a katana - as a badge of his rank - even a Yakuza boss (the lowest social caste) could wear a katana.
Being half Japanese, my ancestors were mostly a physician's family that served a daimyo, so even though they were Commoner caste members, they possessed and wore a katana, as a badge of status.
The whole 'katana is the soul of a samurai' was instituted by Tokugawa at the start of his dynasty, circa 1600. Before this the bow was the primary weapon of the samurai (or the arquebus in some houses), with katana/wakizashi as side weapons only.
I find PF rules just fine for oriental setting - including rules for court etiquette and intrigue, not just fighty samurai. Kaidan is really designed as a low fantasy, gritty setting, and the rules included make the most use out of the PF ruleset to fit this concept.
I've noticed that in the 5 rings, most people have some martial proficiency, but only true 'bushi' are allowed the use of the katana.
Does that apply only to samurai then? Only they can use katanas?
As I recall, if you're a noble, you have the RIGHT to carry the daisho, the combination of katana and wakizashi.
If you do carry a katana, you're expected to use it. ie, if someone challenges you to a duel, you're supposed to fight with the katana.
The way it works out is that most nobles just carry the wakizashi as a mark of status. If you're a bushi, you carry both, because you're trained to fight in a duel with a katana.
Keep in mind that my memory is only of Rokugan, not actual Japanese history. gamer-printer is a way better authority than I am.
Historicaly, I know the role the katana played. I was curious about Rokugan. Trying to wrap my head around 'who is allowed to do what'.
I do remember the bit about wearing a katana means you are open to be dueled, or more importantly, if you are dueled it will be with a katana.
Shugenja are expected to pick a bushi to fight duels for them, right?
I have the rulebook on loan from a friend, but I've only ever played L5R once, a long time ago. So, forgive the wierd setting specific questions.
Shugenja and courtiers (really necessary in Rokugan, can be a Archetype of Bard) and others can pick champions for a duel or can do it themselves. All depend on one question; they wield Katana? All Samurai, non only Bushi can wield Katana. But if you have one, it is expected that you are able to defend yourself on situations like duels.
That said, Shugenja have their ones special traditions for duels using magic.
In Rokugan is important to remember that Samurai is the social position of the nobility; the martial Samurai are the Bushi. Shugenja and Courtiers are Samurai too.
3Ed Oriental Adventures have already been mentioned, but there is also many books from Alderac using 3 Ed rules and L5R 2 Ed together. Specially interesting can be the book named simply Rokugan.
And 4Ed Legend of the 5 Rings are superb rules. The only thing I miss is the Shinjo School. Someone knows where it is? I have find all the other important schools, but that one (and maybe a base school for Dragon duelists) seems to be missing.
You do need some kind of courtier class for Rokugan, but I don't know of anything in Pathfinder that would work well. Bard doesn't fit that well, in my opinion, because of the magic. If you don't want to have PC-level courtiers, just use the Expert or Aristocrat NPC classes and have them focus on social skills.
If you want a PC-courtier, you're going to want to figure out a conversion of the Courtier base class, or something similar. A bard that lost magic and gained rogue talents at every even level probably wouldn't be a bad start, though you'd have to make the talents more useful and add more socially-oriented ones.
Yeah, sorry, while I do have L5R 4e rules, I've only ever read it for reference to what I could use in creating Kaidan - I've never actually played.
Rite Publishing Way of the Samurai is described as a faction book, even though it is focused on 'samurai', this is referring to the social caste, and not specifically the PF player class (even though they are included too.) As in Rokugan, in Kaidan the samurai caste includes more than just the samurai class, though Kaidan includes: teppou bushi (gunslinger archetype), yamabushi (paladin archetype - and what a shugenja is supposed to be called), yojimbo (ranger archetype), kuge (samurai courtier archetype), nitojutsu sensei (2 weapon fighting samurai archetype), tajiya ('outsider' slayer samurai archetype), yabusame (archer samurai archetype) and onmyoji (origami wizard archetype). Also included are the prestige classes: mosa (defender samurai) and bugyo (master courtier/official).
In calling the kuge (samurai archetype) a courtier, his resolve and challenges have a slower progression, replaced by bonus skill points per level, skill focus bonus feats in Knowledge skills and leadership feat bonus. While the Bugyo as a prestige class has special overwhelming administrative abilities, tea ceremony ability and some samurai abilities.
Note Kaidan features it's own Honor mechanic, which the samurai archetypes all take advantage of.
Also Way of the Samurai includes a detailed system for custom designing samurai clans based on the city stat block.
So this book includes the whole entirety of the samurai caste.
Way of the Yakuza archetypes include 2 for rogue, 1 for bard, 1 for fighter, and 1 for tattoo wizard, with a yakuza boss prestige class.
Instead of the Rokugani clan crests, Way of the Samurai includes 36 sample samurai kammon (house crests) based on actual Japanese samurai clans - here's a link to an image file with 12 of those sample crests.