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I wrote up a big treatise on this a while back. I'll dig it up when I have the chance. In short: this is how you make Current Monk work correctly within it's current design theory. It's two changes and no hassle. It's a good band-aid devised by members of my gaming group (Namely one Dan, and one Dave,) and it does the job nicely. We've played around with it, and we think it works. Anyone who wants to playtest it, please do, we want to know if everyone else agrees.
Superior Maneuver Training: At 1st level, pick one Combat Maneuver. The Monk counts as being 1 size category larger for purposes of performing or defending against that maneuver. The Improved (Maneuver) feat for that maneuver is added to their bonus feat list at 2nd level. At 3rd level, a monk uses his monk level in place of his base attack bonus when calculating his Combat Maneuver Bonus for all combat maneuvers. Base Attack bonuses granted from other classes are unaffected and are added normally. At 6th level, the Monk has an opportunity to further improve their skill with one combat maneuver. The Greater (Maneuver) Feat for the maneuver they chose at first level becomes available to that monk as a 6th level bonus feat. Unlike normal Monk bonus feats there is one prerequisite they must meet: they may only take the Greater (Maneuver) Feat for their chosen combat maneuver if they have first taken the Improved (Maneuver) Feat. (This replaces Maneuver Training.)
Short of just giving Monk Full BAB and being done with it, as well as Fixing MAD, this Bandaid pretty much covers all the major problems on some level while still keeping to Monk's supposed strategy: in Melee, you flurry with maneuvers and deadly strikes to defeat a target. When getting into melee on the run, you use a maneuver or a stunning fist, or a maneuver followed by an attack-of-opportunity stunning fist to disrupt and destroy your enemies. This quick fix band-aids Monk enough that you can ignore a lot of its structural weaknesses, and just get back to having fun with your Martial Arts shenanigans.
So! Tell me what you think, anybody who is up for playtesting it please run with it, and lets find out if it works as well as I think it does.
It does. But since both fixes replace or augment existing features, I thought I'd spell it out the way Paizo does, and avoid any confusion.
The change to flat damage with weapon training I like, but it does not home in on what are identified as the primary problems the monk has with unarmed combat and in general: MAD, poor accuracy, and lack of effective enhancement.
The change to flat damage with weapon training I like, but it does not home in on what are identified as the primary problems the monk has with unarmed combat and in general: MAD, poor accuracy, and lack of effective enhancement.
Sure it does dabbler, that flat damage includes a to hit bonus just like weapon training. That monk is picking up 5 points of to hit over 20 levels, thats huge.
The change to flat damage with weapon training I like, but it does not home in on what are identified as the primary problems the monk has with unarmed combat and in general: MAD, poor accuracy, and lack of effective enhancement.Sure it does dabbler, that flat damage includes a to hit bonus just like weapon training. That monk is picking up 5 points of to hit over 20 levels, thats huge.
Aye. +5 over twenty levels. Enhancement is still a problem, but if you just pump it up to +5 with the Amulet, or use this variant of monk to wield a Monk Weapon (trust me, there are FAR superior results using monk weaponry thanks to the Weapon Training Bonus), and you'll be hitting smooth and stylishly.
It covers Accuracy and potentially enhancement, because weapons instantly become better. OR it makes Unarmed Strike a plausible choice, assuming you can forgo enhancement special abilities in favor of flat bonuses. It's pretty elegant actually. Although, if we want to get fancy, I'd add a few new tricks to Unarmed Strike across 20 levels to make it a good weapon choice.
The change to flat damage with weapon training I like, but it does not home in on what are identified as the primary problems the monk has with unarmed combat and in general: MAD, poor accuracy, and lack of effective enhancement.Sure it does dabbler, that flat damage includes a to hit bonus just like weapon training. That monk is picking up 5 points of to hit over 20 levels, thats huge.
MAD is part of the accuracy problem, so if you don't resolve it you haven't beaten the accuracy problem. I would add an automatic enhancement to ki-strike - that way, you get 1d6+4 (weapon training) +5 (enhancement) at top level, with the AoMF adding properties. That said, I also got rid of the pseudo-full BAB, so that the monk had 3/4 BAB + Weapon Training. Then adding wis-to-hit helped alleviate MAD, and you're hitting pretty much as often as a full BAB class.
MAD is part of the accuracy problem, so if you don't resolve it you haven't beaten the accuracy problem. I would add an automatic enhancement to ki-strike - that way, you get 1d6+4 (weapon training) +5 (enhancement) at top level, with the AoMF adding properties. That said, I also got rid of the pseudo-full BAB, so that the monk had 3/4 BAB + Weapon Training. Then adding wis-to-hit helped alleviate MAD, and you're hitting pretty much as often as a full BAB class.The change to flat damage with weapon training I like, but it does not home in on what are identified as the primary problems the monk has with unarmed combat and in general: MAD, poor accuracy, and lack of effective enhancement.Sure it does dabbler, that flat damage includes a to hit bonus just like weapon training. That monk is picking up 5 points of to hit over 20 levels, thats huge.
It's still +5 better across twenty levels regardless of what your strength or dexterity stat is.
In all seriousness though, the idea here is a quick fix bandaid that takes the broken bits of monk, and makes them reasonably functional for quick play. I do agree completely that they should make enhancing Unarmed Strike a part of the class. I disagree with how you go about it though.
My issue is that the monk would end up getting for free what other classes need to pay a boatload of money for, and for better or for worse, equipment is a HUGE part of High Level Play. One way or the other, a Monk is going to have a boatload of cash as he or she levels, and they should have to spend it on something. OR they need to make Vow of Poverty actually playable. It has to go one way or the other.
So here's my thought. Martial Artists have been performing body conditioning exercises since the dawn of recorded history to make themselves better fighters.Therefore, New Class Feature: Conditioning Exercises.
As you can see, this allows the Monk a cheap and easy way to enhance his unarmed strike. If the costs of enhancing his unarmed strike don't seem to make sense, keep in mind that I used the prices for taking a previously enhanced magic weapon, and further enhancing it using Item Creation feats for purposes of enhancing a Monk's unarmed strike beyond a +1 Enhancement Bonus. While conventional wisdom is that Monk's unarmed strike needs cost double the normal price to enhance it, frankly, this is supposed to be a useful class feature, and it never takes Monk's weapon enhancement bonuses to Unarmed Strike beyond +5.
Because for better or for worse, I think that unless you take Vow of Poverty, getting a permanent enhancement bonus to ANY weapon should cost you something. This way is in line with what martial artists have done throughout history, and is a reasonably fair way to give monk some cheap enhancement to offset the ridiculous pricing on the Amulet of Mighty Fists.
What do you think?
I think that's a really cool idea. I might have to use that.
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body conditioning exercises:
i dont like the gp cost. 300 gp for some incense! really? though i agree that it'd be cool to balance it around WBL (wealth by level), i think the way forward is to somehow work in the Vow concept without cash...
try (!?):
Body Conditioning Exercises:
The monk trains daily in a variety of unusual disciplines to enhance their unarmed strike. Some exercises involve striking objects, ranging from soft to hard as they slowly build up their power, and then use special mmedicines to prevent damaging their bodies in the process, constantly enhancing their unarmed strike into something supernaturally deadly. At first level, The monk may enhance their unarmed strike with their esoteric practices. The time it takes to use these medicines and conditioning exercises to finish enhancing a Monk's unarmed strike is always equal to 1 month of training, split among two hours every day of that month. A Monk cannot spend more than 2 hours of training on this process every day, without simply injuring himself and rendering the conditioning exercise a failure. If the Monk misses a day of training, he simply adds another day to the month of training time required to enhance his unarmed strike.
I don't know Rainzax. For built in, permanently enchanted weapons for a character, I feel like there NEEDS to be some kind of cost in money and time. Even Monk's AC bonus has a cost...although that cost is giving yourself a high enough wisdom mod during Point Buy that it counts as being Light Armor + Enchantments across 20 levels. XD And I based the 300 GP cost on the standard masterwork cost/the cost for gunslinger to take their busted starting gun and make it masterwork.
So I had a thought, what if the monk simply was allowed to double their physical sore modifiers (while unarmored, using unarmed strikes only, etc)
Because for better or for worse, I think that unless you take Vow of Poverty, getting a permanent enhancement bonus to ANY weapon should cost you something.
Bladebound magus.
Because for better or for worse, I think that unless you take Vow of Poverty, getting a permanent enhancement bonus to ANY weapon should cost you something.Bladebound magus.
You have a good point. I suppose the main reason I'm so iffy on the idea, is that I'm already giving this heavy duty weapon training. Seeing as Monk has enough problems with items as it is, I'll add a rewrite that adds it as built in.
And now that you mention it, I do think I prefer 4/7/10/13/16 for the increasing enhancement bonus.
Thanks guys! Any more thoughts? :D
well if you wanna borrow anything, have at it
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