I'm creating a Dragonlance campaign where an evil race called the Nzunta will play a major part. They are very attuned to magic and in my campaign their preferred class is Sorcerer. I've read a lot of comments on these boards about how prestige classes aren't really as good as the base classes in a lot of ways, and I came up with an idea to allow NPCs of the Nzunta race to be able to use some of the arcane PrCs as base classes instead of prestige classes. For instance an NPC could start as an Arcane Archer at first level instead of having to meet the prereqs of the class first. Since the Nzunta are natural sorcerers in my campaign I was thinking of giving them the spell progression of a sorcerer as well. I also like the idea purely from a fluff viewpoint, as I want the Nzunta to be "different" from the norm. Do you think this would make my NPCs too powerful, or not powerful enough?
Most PrCs aren't actually that powerful. If they have racial HD and you count that as sorcerer levels they aren't much different from a rakshasa who takes more levels in sorc for instance.
I wouldn't, better give them some racial HD and possibly have them cast spells as a sorcerer level X, much like an Aranea, they all have 5 effective levels of sorcerer and can easily qualify for many PrCs, perhaps with one more class level of some sort.
Well they have a level adjustment of +2. I'm guessing this is the same as racial hit dice? Apologies if these seem to be obvious questions, but my 3.5/PF-Fu is weak. What makes this overpowered? If instead of giving them the Sorcerer spell progression I just assumed the "existing class" to be Sorcerer on the table on pg 375 of the PFCRB, would that make it more balanced?
*bump*
Both level adjustment and racial HD add in to ECL. I don't think much of this got translated into pathfinder.
So I'm getting the sense that people think this would be overpowered, but I am still not seeing it. What is it about this idea that makes it OP?
There is a magus archetype that may suit what you are looking for.
If it's just the NPCs, I don't see why it's really that huge a problem. It's not like they need to follow the same level progression as the PCs. That would be like saying half the monsters in the bestiaries should be banned because aren't balanced as a party member. The real trick is figuring out what level makes an appropriate challenge.
Yeah, its only for NPCs. I was thinking the same thing Ragnarok. If they had the same spell progression as a sorcerer then the main thing that I'd think would make them OP is their ability to increase the range of their spells. They still wouldn't be able to cast 3rd level spells until 6th level for instance.
I've been thinking about this a little and I came up with an idea I wanted to throw out there. Remember this would only be for NPCs. The Nzunta are supposed to be very magical in nature, and I was wanting to come up with something that would set them apart from the typical NPC. I decided that since they are so inherently magical that I'd make them all predominantly sorcerer based. I figured that even the warrior types in their culture would be magical as well. To that end I decided that having them be able to choose a PrC that has arcane magic as a staple of the class. I am also considering creating a ranger class that can cast arcane spells instead of clerical, but I may open that up to PCs depending on how it works out.
What if for *any* of the PrC classes as base I used the spell progression of the bard, but let them choose spells from the sorcerer spell list? That would mean no 3rd level spells until 7th level, and starting out they'd only be able to cast around 3-5 spells a day. This seems reasonable to me, but I still would like to hear from others.
Anyone care to share an opinion?
That's getting kind of weird and out there I think.
I'm not sure what you want here when you say give them the full sorcerer spell progression, or give them bard's progression - are you still talking about letting them begin in any PrC at level 1 (level 3 adjusted LA) and getting exactly what the PrC gives them but altering their spell progression to that of sorcerer or bard?
Have you considered that a CR 11 capable of using Death Arrow with a DC of 20+CHA will be pretty much a guaranteed kill against 11th level characters - even good FORT characters will probably have less than a 50% survival rate unless the Nzunta Arcane Archer has crappy CHA.
Those are high level for a reason, so you might want to look at each PrC's abilities on a case-by-case basis and, at least, reconsider some DCs from a lower-level perspective.
Why not just go a different route altogether. Make this a race that naturally gets socerer spells and progression but can take any class they want and any PrC they qualify for.
Sure, a super-powerful class indeed. You could make paladins with full sorcerer spell list too, or monks, or barbarians, or whatever. But heck, they're supposed to be the bad guys, right, so why not make them powerful? At least this way, their abilities and limitations are level-appropriate.
or you could "spread out" the levels into a 20 level class, it's up to you whether or not to fill in that every other dead level with something, but it's certainly a start, and completely ok with a bard spell progression.
My question *should* read "What if for *any* of the PrC ARCANE classes as base I used the spell progression of the bard..." If that helps DM Blake. You are right about that Death Arrow ability too. See, this is why I ask questions! +5 Toaster, you have a good idea there. I think I'll steal it! ;) I'll tinker around with it and post my results.
Can't believe someone hasn't mentioned this yet:
Someone else had kind of the same idea you did, he made all the Core Rulebook Prestige classes into Archetypes.
Prestige Classes as Archetypes
They turned out really sweet.
Thanks for bringing these to my attention! I haven't had a chance yet to look at them in depth, but they look promising. I appreciate it.