Advice on extending Ancient mine from Beginner Box.

[Tierre]

Hello to all.

I have started DMing Rise of the Runelord AP for 5 players. As a side quest i added Ancient Mine from Beginner Box with some changes.... those some changes included 10 tiems bigger mines with a lot of troglodytes and skeletons of dwarven miners who died here before. Also i changed the time of disaster to the late unpleasantries (as in a cave beneath those mines is an ancient Thassilonian laboratory with minor Runewell which was triggered by Karzoug's awakening. This made a minor earthquake which collapsed most ofthe mines and a burst of negative energy which animated now dead dwarves. This earthquake made it possible for Troglodyte tribe living below in the caves near that ancient lab to get up and claim territory. Also as a boss for mines there will be a Troglodyte wizard!!! (he is a smart troglodyte who used spellbooks of wizards killed by his tribe before (which were in the treasure hoard and he got hold of them). Now Kyrrik Glowtail is using those mines as his base and lab, where my players will be soon enough:).
There are 2 floors in the mine now and most of the passages are collpsed rock (with a place for some earth elementals. which are pretty tugh competition for 1st level party. I hope Kyrrik in his 3rd level wizard advanced troglodyte won't prove to be undefeatable :( ). At 4 points near collapsed walls they can find shafts of rubble and stone through which troglodytes came here. I placed a wand of stone shape with 5 charges to let them seal those shafts. Unfortunately the players did an unexpected (at least to such an unexperienced DM like me) - they want to go down before even attempting to search allthe mines. And i am not ready for this yet:). Also those caverns should probably lead to the Pit in the Devil's platter, so it is a really not a place for 1st level chars. I might add some skill challange with 100 troglodytes chase:) Which will be funny if they survive (i don't want to kill them - we only started and it's a first expirience for all of us, i am afraid it can divert most of players from the game).
Any ideas on how to do it? Ideas for the cavern at all and Thassilonian lab? Rewards and treasures? enemies?
I used in the mines nearly 20 troglodytes with clubs, javelins and a few with blowguns and poisoned darts. 4 shamans with 7 mnitor lizards here and there. A wizard trog. Also 16 skeletons and 3 skeletal champions of dwarves and 4 earth elementals on the other side from the place in ancient mine where elemental attacked 2 dwarf scouts. Those elementals are attracted to minor magic ctone which can be easily converted to campfire bead, while not i'ts just a ruby with innate magic:)
Thanks in advance for all the advice.

[Peasant]

You've covered a bit of ground here, so let me separate out the questions I think you're asking.

1) How do I discourage my players from exploring the area I haven't prepared yet?

First off, you don't really have to block them. If the players are merely indulging a bit of curiosity, let them clear a shaft and descend a bit to get a peek at what might be coming. Here I propose you make use of a vaulted cavern in which portions of the ledge which led to the collapsed tunnel have likewise collapsed (meaning you only have to design one room). Unless they've brought climbing gear and are feeling stubborn, the encounter will amount to a bit of spying, the Troglodytes spotting them and racing for scaling ladders, maybe a bit of missile fire and then in all probability a headstart and tactical retreat back up the shaft (and resealing it).

2) How do I save myself some work in generating unpublished levels of the mine?

That one's easy. In a pinch use the random cave generator here, http://www.gozzys.com/article.php?cm_id=11 and simply reuse the encounters you've already designed for the existing areas. You've described nothing to suggest that there would be a huge difference between levels.

3) How do I make a Thassilonian Lab cool?

The lab may have been entirely trashed by the tremor so you need not focus too much on having the layout make sense. I would recommend employing some irrelevant and obviously magical stage dressing to set the mood. Perhaps books or beakers are floating in mid-air or bits of the debris are moving about on their own as if an invisible something is lurking within. Meatier encounters in the lab might include rot grubs, one of the hazardous molds, hostile animated objects or zombies of the burning or multiplying variety.

4) What about treasure?

I gather you're using this expanded mine in lieu of some of the early portions of the printed Rise of the Runelords. Simplest answer is to place treasure similar to that which appears in the portions of the AP you won't be running. Other than that, a floating lantern or rope of climbing would make a great deal of sense in a mine, an ioun stone would be thematically appropriate to the lab and you'd have a rare opportunity for a magical pick to seem logical. Maybe a bottle of air left over from some adventurer who thought to avoid the stench of the troglodytes. Monetary treasure may include stray pouches of gold dust, uncut semi-precious stones or ingots of any trademetal. Even special materials like Adamantine or Alchemical Silver might be hidden in the lab.

Is that about what you were looking for?

[Tierre]

Oh that gives me almost all the insight i need to do it from now on myself:) Thanks a lot for that.

I am not using experience system - i will grant them level ups at the moments i think apropriate from the point of AP balance (i made a lot of sidequests and gave players some minor buffs like an extra feat or trait, so i use quite a lot of mobs to scale it (like 7 troglodytes against 5 players - that's pretty strong against first level party, but they managed), so with real experience counting they would level up too fast.

And now i think they will get second level after all that troglodyte beating:) It would make glassworks encounter too easy but i can always add some bards and more goblins to the mix. Also from the pathfinder issue 3 i can always add some ghouls to the tunnels beneath Sandpoint:) Maybe even with saving fleeing Tsuto Kaijitsu from ghouls.

Oh the possibilities of DMing :) I feel like a God mwuahahaha.... Ahem... sorry, jsut slipped, won't happen again.

PS now i see how many awful grammar mistakes i made in the previous post.... gotta check it better next time:(

[littlehewy]

Was going to give lots of advice, but Peasant pretty much sorted it :)

[Peasant]

I should note that I was just riffing off of what you described as I've never read Rise of the Runelords. Do you still have lingering questions? The only other advice that immediately comes to mind is this... presumably the AP has certain encounters that add little to the story and are placed chiefly to keep xp progression on track. They should be pretty easy to identify simply because they'll be the least imaginative portions of the story. Since you aren't tracking xp anyway and are already padding the story with other material I propose that you excise those. That will keep the flavorful meat of the story moving at a brisk pace without sacrificing your own material or bogging down.

[Tierre]

A good advice. Unfortunately i already added most of the pointless starting quests to the game and played them. During boar hunt i even added Dire Boar, who was a really troublesome pet to kill. Actually playing in 1st level is quite interesting - it is hard and wizards are not uber cool, so fighter is actually ruling the scene here. Well if he has healing bakup that is - without it his rule can be short. Of course wizard's color spray is pretty cheaty spell in this early stages too. Getting 3-4 enemies down for 2-4 turns is actually looking pretty "save or die" to me.

I will add a lab in the lower caves to explore, and then they go to the outer cave tunnels then they will encounter A LOT of troglodytes. That's then they will have to decide to keep all those stupid clubs and javelins their rogue keeps dreaming of selling in town or to drop them to get some speed:)

[Peasant]

"Save or Die" will be an issue from time to time but unless someone is specializing in such an effect it really doesn't need to trouble you. The Wizard is balanced by his lack of endurance in the field. If he hastens the resolution of Encounter A then he has less to offer in Encounter B, C and D. Even as they grow in power this consideration never really goes away. If they embrace the breadth of the spell list then they have little prepared in depth. And if they prepare in depth then they are not prepared for the full range of eventualities.

That said, if it does trouble you that Color Spray is so effective in the current situation, I would simply counsel you to ask the player not to overly specialize. It doesn't sound like the sort of campaign where you'll meet a lot of resistance to that.

As an aside... the Rogue could use all those javelins to create spike traps around various corners in the tunnels, prod the troglodyte horde and lead them to their grisly, impaled doom. Then he'd have even more to take back to town!

[Tierre]

Oh Spiked traps from javelins is something i never thought about. I will mention the possibility to him. It is not good for DM to give advice to players but rule of fun says i must mention it. I really hope it would be extraordinary funny. I just hope it won't be TPK-funny ;) But it's their choice anyway.