How do you run pit spells?

[agentJay]

For reference all pit spells function as create pit so perhaps you should read it here before continuing.

So my question is how do you run the pit spells when a caster puts it under a creature? Say it makes it save, do you then move the creature so it is no longer standing over the pit? If so, where do you place it in relation to the pit? If you place it next to the pit, the edges are sloped so does the creature have to make another save?

Now what if the creature was large or bigger. Does the pit have no effect on the large creature because it takes up the same amount of space as the opening of the pit? Or do you just make it save as if it was standing on the slope? If the creature is Huge does that mean it is bigger than the pit so the pit has no effect at all, or because it is huge it is basically standing on the edge of the pit so it has to make a save?

Thanks,

+J

[Victor Zajic]

Creatures don't have to save again for standing next to the pit until the END of their turn.

I have creatures move wherever the heck they want.

Large creatues can fall into the pit if it's under any of their squares.

I probably won't let huge creatures fall into a 10 by 10 pit.

[Jiggy]

agentJay wrote:

So my question is how do you run the pit spells when a caster puts it under a creature? Say it makes it save, do you then move the creature so it is no longer standing over the pit? If so, where do you place it in relation to the pit?

The answer is in the spell description that you asked your fellow posters to read before answering:

The very text you asked others to read wrote:

Any creature standing in the area where you first conjured the pit must make a Reflex saving throw to jump to safety in the nearest open space.

agentJay wrote:

If you place it next to the pit, the edges are sloped so does the creature have to make another save?

And again:

The text one would presume you would read before asking others to do so wrote:

In addition, the edges of the pit are sloped, and any creature ending its turn on a square adjacent to the pit must make a Reflex saving throw with a +2 bonus to avoid falling into it.

agentJay wrote:

Now what if the creature was large or bigger. Does the pit have no effect on the large creature because it takes up the same amount of space as the opening of the pit? Or do you just make it save as if it was standing on the slope? If the creature is Huge does that mean it is bigger than the pit so the pit has no effect at all, or because it is huge it is basically standing on the edge of the pit so it has to make a save?

Excellent questions!

The spell description doesn't say anything specific about sizes, so you'll have to make some decisions. Since a large creature easily fits within the pit, I think it's pretty clear that it would need to save as normal if the pit is centered under the creature. If the pit is conjured such that it merely overlaps with a large creature's space, it's anyone's guess. I personally would have it save with a +2 bonus, and failure would make it tumble in, but it's in the realm of GM adjudication. If a large creature ended its turn half on normal ground and half adjacent to the pit, I'm not sure... Maybe make it save, but increase the bonus from +2 to +4?

For bigger creatures, they can't actually fit into the pit, though it seems reasonable that something would happen if there was a gaping hole under them. Perhaps use the spell stumble gap as a reference point?

Hope that helps.

[Chris P. Bacon]

Creatures that pass a save are shunted to the edge of the pit. They only have to make a reflex save to avoid falling in if they end their turn at the edge of the pit. So, when their turn comes up, they're free to move to safety.

Large creatures can fall in the pit, as their space fits in there just fine. I'd even consider letting some huge creatures fall in, as a creature doesn't actually take up the entire space it occupies. For example, a halfling has a 5' space, but certainly isn't five feet wide.

I'd be tempted to treat huge creatures who fail their saves as prone, as they're essentially stuck part-way into the pit. It's disappointing that nobody had the foresight to deal with this eventuality when the spell was written.

[El Baron de los Banditos]

Jiggy wrote:

For bigger creatures, they can't actually fit into the pit, though it seems reasonable that something would happen if there was a gaping hole under them. Perhaps use the spell stumble gap as a reference point?

This just made me think; "Is using Create Pit on the Tarrasque* like using Stumble Gap on a medium-sized creature?"

*:

Replaceable by any really-big creature, but he's always the first one to come to mind.

[agentJay]

Thanks for the well thought out and quick reply's. Perhaps I need to brush up on my reading comprehension skills so I don't post questions with answers in them. Off to read about "stumble gap".

Thanks,

+J