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So this is a bit of a two parter.
1. Short of it, did one of the Cassomir games with the Derro, nobody had Darkvision or Daylight (We were like, lvl 2-5). Is there any way to cheaply get either Daylight of Darkvision at level 3?
2. So I've got this Sorcerer (Kitsune Rakshasa-Blooded) and I've hit level 3 with her. And looking at her spells, they kinda, well, suck (Sleep + Silent Image as lvl 1s so far). I wanna take her down the Veiled Illusionist path when she gets higher level, but I'm not 100% sure on how well that would go. Should I keep up with aiming for the Prestige class or just try to go full Sorcerer?
2a. Any suggestions on spell or feat choices? Picked up the Realistic Likeness feat for Disguise shenanigans.
2b. Now, I know there's a lot of dungeon crawls, but should I move the Sorcerer away from the "social +20-mod-to-Disguise" shenanigans and more to a more...classical role?
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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So this is a bit of a two parter.
1. Short of it, did one of the Cassomir games with the Derro, nobody had Darkvision or Daylight (We were like, lvl 2-5). Is there any way to cheaply get either Daylight of Darkvision at level 3?
A potion of darkvision is 300gp. An oil of daylight costs 750gp. You could also acquire either of those by spending 2PP.
Scrolls are half that price, but you have to be able to read them, so you'd need to know the darkness was coming ahead of time.
2. So I've got this Sorcerer (Kitsune Rakshasa-Blooded) and I've hit level 3 with her. And looking at her spells, they kinda, well, suck (Sleep + Silent Image as lvl 1s so far). I wanna take her down the Veiled Illusionist path when she gets higher level, but I'm not 100% sure on how well that would go. Should I keep up with aiming for the Prestige class or just try to go full Sorcerer?
Not familiar with the prestige class, sorry.
2a. Any suggestions on spell or feat choices? Picked up the Realistic Likeness feat for Disguise shenanigans.
Grease never goes out of style. At some point you'll want magic missile (possibly at your first chance to replace an existing spell, which I think is 4th level, and you could replace the then-useless sleep).
2b. Now, I know there's a lot of dungeon crawls, but should I move the Sorcerer away from the "social +20-mod-to-Disguise" shenanigans and more to a more...classical role?
Why not both? PFS rewards a well-made generalist, IMO. I mean, you're eventually going to have more "spells known" slots than you could possibly fill with noncombat spells. So just home in on the noncombat spells you really want, and then fill in the others with decent combat options. As a sorcerer, you won't have to worry about which ones to prepare. As long as you have options both in and out of combat, you'll do just fine.
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Haste never goes out of style.
Heroism is a beautiful spell.
Magic Missile is amazing at screwing up other spell casters.
Fly is a lovely little spell that allows you to bypass a lot of tricky and annoying things.
Create Pit is a classic, and for good reason.
As for feats...go with what you like! Improved initiative is a handy feat, because you can get your spells off before the barbarian races out of range. Spell focus can really beef up your chances, and feats that make you more likely to pierce Spell Resistance are handy.
Look into a few of the meta magic feats. Toppling Magic Missile is in vogue, even if cheesy. Intensified or Empowered spells can get nasty.
Figure out what your friends like to bring to the table, and pick spells to back them up. If you have a bunch of melee types, snag Enlarge Person. Having a big fella to draw attention is always nice.
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Sorcerers might (with cash) want to put some of those 'Infrequent' utility spells on a Ring/Page of Spell knowlege.
Things like Identify, Haste, See Invisble, and such. Pick the ones you want and go with those as 'off the books' spells. Frees up a few of slots for spells you don't use in a fight but might want to use around.
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well ring/page just straight up add them to your spell list, so frequency of use is less important. If you want more awesome spells, then get them, and enjoy :)
Mnemonic vestment on the other hand allows you 1/day cast a spell you have on a scroll or in a spell book (hey, sorcs with spellbooks how novel) cast it as if you knew it.
Think of it like free scrolls assuming you're high enough level to cast them, and have a slot available. Truly and awesome item for those infrequent or utility spells, like say.... teleport...
spells that have uses for a long time, of various spell slots.
1st: Grease, Ear-Piercing Scream, Snowball, vanish, silent image.
2nd: Create pit, glitterdust, invisibility, levitate
3rd: haste, really haste, heroism, fly, mad monkeys, invis sphere.
4th: Dimension door, greater invis
so obviously you don't need all the invisibility spells, choose the one or two that work best for you and pick them up. Invis sphere is something I'd be more likely to have a scroll of, and use with the vestment.
Glitterdust reveals invisible creatures with no save and no SR, it literally never loses usefulness. See invisibility doesn't beat some forms of invis, it also doesn't work under mind blank. glitterdust ALWAYS works if you can pinpoint them once. Oh, it's also a powerful blind effect over a fairly large area.
As for disguise plans. There are a couple times when it's super awesome, but usually 1 rank and Disguise Self is more than enough in combination with a decent bluff check to make things work out.
I wouldn't put too much effort into feats and such though, frankly it just doesn't come up that much. I mean someone in your party is probably getting spotted first hah.
As for feats for a caster. Improved initiative, augment summoning (if you want to summon things) and toughness are all feats i'm a pretty big fan of.
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For Darkness, while it is limited duration, a 10 PP Dayfinder lets you get a once/day Daylight.
Continual Flame is a 2nd level spell for a Sorcerer, and will also overpower Darkness, but not Deeper Darkness.
Finding a 5th level or higher Cleric to cast their 3rd level Continual Flame on an item for you is never a bad idea. That counteracts Deeper Darkness, although neither one wins.
By the way, while the usefulness of Sleep is waning, if you keep your eyes and mind open, Silent Image can still have use even at higher levels. I have seen it used to create what appeared to be a Wall of Water, it can be used, especially if you make sure your archer-types know about it beforehand, to create a wall between your ranged combatants (that they can fire through) and your enemies. Make believe you are summoning a monster, but instead use Silent Image to "summon" the creature behind your enemies.
No, a well-timed and topical illusion seldom goes out of style.
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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| 3 people marked this as FAQ candidate. |
Continual Flame is a 2nd level spell for a Sorcerer, and will also overpower Darkness, but not Deeper Darkness.
Finding a 5th level or higher Cleric to cast their 3rd level Continual Flame on an item for you is never a bad idea. That counteracts Deeper Darkness, although neither one wins.
Incorrect.
Magical light sources only increase the light level in an area if they are of a higher spell level than darkness.
So if there's a darkness effect (2nd-level) in place, and you whip out your 2nd-level continual flame, it's not a higher spell level and therefore will not increase the light level.
A cleric's 3rd-level continual flame would raise the light level in an area of darkness, but would fail to do so in an area of deeper darkness (3rd-level).
You're probably confusing all this with the following:
Light spells counter and dispel darkness spells of an equal or lower level.
Lots of people misunderstand this due to not knowing specifically what "counter" and "dispel" mean in Pathfinder (at least, outside of dispel magic).
What "counter" means - Note the timing and targeting mechanics; I'm pretty sure that's not what you're planning to do with your continual flame. Also note which spells can counter what, including the "Specific Exceptions" subheading.
As for "dispel", I'm having trouble finding the link, but it works pretty much the same way but with different timing: you would have to cast the continual flame (or other light spell) on the same target that an already-active darkness effect had targeted. Good luck touching the subject of a darkness effect while you can't see.
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Jiggy, I believe he's saying that they cancel each other out, as neither can increase or decrease the other.
Where does that idea come from? Light spells explicitly do not function within an area of darkness unless the light spell is higher level. Darkness spells have no such caveat anywhere. I'm not sure what needs to be clearer, or how it could be so.
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Jiggy, I believe he's saying that they cancel each other out, as neither can increase or decrease the other.Where does that idea come from? Light spells explicitly do not function within an area of darkness unless the light spell is higher level. Darkness spells have no such caveat anywhere. I'm not sure what needs to be clearer, or how it could be so.
Adam is confusing continual flame with daylight. Daylight specifies that it becomes canceled out and cancels out darkness spells. Continual flame has no such language, so it is always ineffective against deeper darkness and only a 3rd level cleric continual flame is effective against the darkness spell.
This is an extremely common error. It honestly needs an FAQ or at least a PFS clarification.
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My Sorcerer will be using Heighten Spell on everything he puts Continual Flame upon...I'm seriously considering having my cleric take Heighten Spell at 7th and then handing out 4th-level continual flame spells to everyone he adventures with.
;)
My cleric has a boon that grants Heighten Spell for exactly 3 more scenarios, and I plan on handing out these same little goodies until that wears off. I'm waiting to adventure with her for a group that asks me nicely enough (that and we tend to have enough healers locally that they rarely need her more than my archer at that tier).
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Wow, lot of suggestions =O
One 1st level spell I was looking at was Peacebond.
You lock a weapon in place on its owner’s body, or within the weapon’s sheath or holster. Anyone who then tries to draw the weapon must spend a standard action and succeed at a Strength check (DC equal to the saving throw DC) to do so, provoking attacks of opportunity whether the attempt succeeds or fails.
Probably gonna take Improved Initiative as my 3rd level feat, switch out Sleep for Magic Missile at lvl 4, pick up Spell Focus (Illusion) at 5th and pick up Invisibility at lvl 4 to meet requirements for Veiled Illusionist (The Spell Focus and Invisibility anyway. Still not 100% on the class yet though, would appreciate people weighing in on it)
Edit: Proper link established.
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Wow, lot of suggestions =O
One 1st level spell I was looking at was Peacebond.
You lock a weapon in place on its owner’s body, or within the weapon’s sheath or holster. Anyone who then tries to draw the weapon must spend a standard action and succeed at a Strength check (DC equal to the saving throw DC) to do so, provoking attacks of opportunity whether the attempt succeeds or fails.Probably gonna take Improved Initiative as my 3rd level feat, switch out Sleep for Magic Missile at lvl 4, pick up Spell Focus (Illusion) at 5th and pick up Invisibility at lvl 4 to meet requirements for Veiled Illusionist (The Spell Focus and Invisibility anyway. Still not 100% on the class yet though, would appreciate people weighing in on it)
Linkified
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Continual Flame is a 2nd level spell for a Sorcerer, and will also overpower Darkness, but not Deeper Darkness.
Finding a 5th level or higher Cleric to cast their 3rd level Continual Flame on an item for you is never a bad idea. That counteracts Deeper Darkness, although neither one wins.
Incorrect.
Magical light sources only increase the light level in an area if they are of a higher spell level than darkness.So if there's a darkness effect (2nd-level) in place, and you whip out your 2nd-level continual flame, it's not a higher spell level and therefore will not increase the light level.
A cleric's 3rd-level continual flame would raise the light level in an area of darkness, but would fail to do so in an area of deeper darkness (3rd-level).
You're probably confusing all this with the following:
Light spells counter and dispel darkness spells of an equal or lower level.Lots of people misunderstand this due to not knowing specifically what "counter" and "dispel" mean in Pathfinder (at least, outside of dispel magic).
What "counter" means - Note the timing and targeting mechanics; I'm pretty sure that's not what you're planning to do with your continual flame. Also note which spells can counter what, including the "Specific Exceptions" subheading.
As for "dispel", I'm having trouble finding the link, but it works pretty much the same way but with different timing: you would have to cast the continual flame (or other light spell) on the same target that an already-active darkness effect had targeted. Good luck touching the subject of a darkness effect while you can't see.
Continual Flame, in both the PRD and my 5th edition copy of the PDF, includes the line: "Light spells counter and dispel darkness spells of an equal or lower level."
And I think you misunderstand. Counter is not counterspell.
If equal level light and darkness spells affect the same area, where they overlap, they counter each other, leaving the ambient light level behind as the actual light level.
Continual Flame, in both the PRD and my 5th edition copy of the PDF, includes the line: "Light spells counter and dispel darkness spells of an equal or lower level."
And I think you misunderstand. Counter is not counterspell.
Yes, it is.
Counterspells
It is possible to cast any spell as a counterspell. By doing so, you are using the spell's energy to disrupt the casting of the same spell by another character. Counterspelling works even if one spell is divine and the other arcane.How Counterspells Work: To use a counterspell, you must select an opponent as the target of the counterspell. You do this by choosing to ready an action. In doing so, you elect to wait to complete your action until your opponent tries to cast a spell. You may still move at your normal speed, since ready is a standard action.
If the target of your counterspell tries to cast a spell, make a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + the spell's level). This check is a free action. If the check succeeds, you correctly identify the opponent's spell and can attempt to counter it. If the check fails, you can't do either of these things.
To complete the action, you must then cast an appropriate spell. As a general rule, a spell can only counter itself. If you are able to cast the same spell and you have it prepared (or have a slot of the appropriate level available), you cast it, creating a counterspell effect. If the target is within range, both spells automatically negate each other with no other results.
Counterspelling Metamagic Spells: Metamagic feats are not taken into account when determining whether a spell can be countered.
Specific Exceptions: Some spells can counter other specific spells, often those with diametrically opposed effects.
Dispel Magic as a Counterspell: You can usually use dispel magic to counterspell another spell being cast without needing to identify the spell being cast. Dispel magic doesn't always work as a counterspell (see the spell description).
Emphasis mine. Note that it uses the term "counter" to mean "counterspelling".
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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@kinevon: Incorrect. Only daylight does that.
Your interpretation directly contradicts the rule that magical sources of light don't work in an area of darkness unless they're of a higher (not "equal or higher", just "higher") spell level.
So either the rules on the interaction of light/darkness spells are literally self-contradictory, or you misunderstand in exactly the way I laid out for you.
When one interpretation causes rules to become impossible to follow, while the other interpretation causes everything to work perfectly, it's pretty easy to guess which one's correct.
EDIT: Ninja'd. Funnily enough, ninja'd by a reiteration of the rule I already directed him to. I'm a bit hurt that kinevon apparently didn't even read my post or the referenced rules, instead responding to contradiction by simply restating his case and repeating a rule that's already been addressed.
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@kinevon: Incorrect. Only daylight does that.
Your interpretation directly contradicts the rule that magical sources of light don't work in an area of darkness unless they're of a higher (not "equal or higher", just "higher") spell level.
So either the rules on the interaction of light/darkness spells are literally self-contradictory, or you misunderstand in exactly the way I laid out for you.
When one interpretation causes rules to become impossible to follow, while the other interpretation causes everything to work perfectly, it's pretty easy to guess which one's correct.
EDIT: Ninja'd. Funnily enough, ninja'd by a reiteration of the rule I already directed him to. I'm a bit hurt that kinevon apparently didn't even read my post or the referenced rules, instead responding to contradiction by simply restating his case and repeating a rule that's already been addressed.
I read it. I am still confused, probably because I don't, fundamentally, understand the rules on light and darkness. Every time I read them, my eyes start to spin.
And then, if what you say is true, and I am understanding you, it means that Darkness is pretty much a "win everything" button for evil types, since existing light effects don't count, unless they are Daylight or higher level. And Daylight won't count against Deeper Darkness.
Which means that any creature with Darkness or Deeper Darkness at will cannot be stopped from gaining a serious advantage over the PCs.
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@Minkel:
1) Limited, since some of the nastier cruitters to deal with in darkness/deeper darkness have it as an at will ability. PCs will usually run out of Dispels long before the critter runs out of DDs.
2) Limited by figuring out, and gaining access to, the item that has the D/DD cast on it. It's dark, you can't see. Can you even locate the source of the darkness?
3) Again, limited by spells per day. And prepared spells, if not a spontaneous caster. And not many spontaneous casters have a light spell of any sort on tap in their limited slots.
4) Requires, again, finding the object which has had the D/DD cast on it. In the dark. And, depending on the caster, while you are dispelling one, and it sees you doing so, it casts another, leaving you down a spell and still in D/DD.
5) Not bad, but that is one of the points I get confused on. What happens if the BBEG casts DD again? Does the "canceled" Daylight still negate the new casting, or are you stuck back in DD again?
6) True, but not going to help a party until the party has access to a PC caster that is at least 7th level.
And in cases where a regular Daylight and Deeper Darkness "cancel" each other out, can another Deeper Darkness get cast, causing the DD to take affect, since the Daylight is already neutralized?
Also, would a simple Light spell work when there is a DD/Daylight collision in effect, or will a sunrod or torch still get neutralized?
As I said, I get confused by this, easily. Especially when trying to run or play one of the scenarios based around this whole magical area/
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If you don't need the hours-long duration of Darkvision, consider picking up a few scrolls of Alter Self. It's only 1 minute / level, but that's good enough for a fight, and it can give you other nice buffs, too. It's always worth carrying a few scrolls of useful utility spells like that -- I define "useful" utilities as spells that have a duration of at least minutes/level and don't have saving throws, so being crafted at the minimum caster level doesn't matter.
One option to consider, if you're not fighting something that can use Darkness at will, is to just back off. Walk out of the room, close the door, hold it shut, and wait a while for the spell to wear off. Granted, that's not so effective if the bad guy can just use Darkness again.
As far as spells go, Sleep and Silent Image can be very powerful in the right situation, but the problem with them is that if you're in a situation where they're not useful, you're screwed. It's a good idea to have at least one damage-dealing spell of every spell level so that you're not useless when you run into something that is immune to your illusions or enchantments. Magic Missile and Snapdragon Fireworks are both good first-level choices. At second level, I like Flaming Sphere and Scorching Ray. The all-new Snowball and Flurry of Snowball spells are also great low-level damage dealers.
For feat choices, keep in mind that for many illusion and enchantment spells, if the enemy makes their save, it doesn't affect them at all. That means that, even moreso than other schools of magic, it is important to bump your spell DCs up as high as possible. Get Greater Spell Focus ASAP and Spell Penetration next, because it won't be too long before you start running into things with SR. Also get metamagic feats that make it harder for enemies to save; Bouncing Spell, Intensified Spell, and Persistent Spell will be your friends. I'd also recommend picking up a Lesser Rod of Extend; at low levels, your durations will be short enough that your spells might wear off before the end of combat.
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| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
So either the rules on the interaction of light/darkness spells are literally self-contradictory
Yes, they are. I would say these two sentences directly contradict each other.
Magical light sources only increase the light level in an area if they are of a higher spell level than darkness.
Light spells counter and dispel darkness spells of an equal or lower level.
So which is which? Let's look at the wording in all the light and darkness Spells.
Light can be used to counter or dispel any darkness spell of equal or lower spell level.
Light spells counter and dispel darkness spells of an equal or lower level.
Daylight counters or dispels any darkness spell of equal or lower level, such as darkness.
Darkness can be used to counter or dispel any light spell of equal or lower spell level.
Deeper darkness can be used to counter or dispel any light spell of equal or lower spell level.
Blacklight counters or dispels any light spell of equal or lower level. Daylight counters or dispels blacklight.
From what I understand of your argument, you're saying that the one sentence in Darkness trumps all the rest of the spell descriptions?
Let's see if I can work this out by example:
You're saying that if I'm walking along with my 2nd level continual flame tucked away, and someone casts darkness on a pebble at my feet, I'm still in the dark once I pull it out.
Now if I'm walking along with the light out and waving it around, the baddie has two choices, he can either cast darkness on it and dispel it, returning us to normal light levels, or he can cast darkness on the pebble at my feet and I'm in the darkness.
Same thing applies if I'm walking along with my Daylight or 3rd level Cont. Flame either tucked away or out, once someone casts deeper darkness, I'm in the dark because that one sentence trumps all the other spell descriptions?
I don't think that's what the game designers had in mind, but right now if we follow Jiggy's line of reason, Darkness trumps all.
Now lets talk about the whole counter and dispel thing. The wording for some of the spells is different. Did you notice how each spell except Continual Flame, Daylight, and Blacklight say that they "can be used" whilst these spells simply say "dispels"? Does that mean that you have to act as Jiggy suggested and actively target the opposing spell with a new casting for anything other than CF, DL, or BL, while the effects of those two spells automatically do it for you?
Both light and dark spells have this wording, I'm just going to use two:
If daylight is cast on a small object that is then placed inside or under a light-proof covering, the spell's effects are blocked until the covering is removed.
If darkness is cast on a small object that is then placed inside or under a lightproof covering, the spell's effect is blocked until the covering is removed.
So the effect is blocked until it's uncovered, which means that right now, if a CF, DL, or BL spell is brought into an opposing spells area and uncovered, it immediately counters and dispels it. But nothing else does that. Does that make sense?
So, where do we go from here?
My humble suggestion would be an errata on the wordings of all these spells to make them universal and describe how these spells effect each other. My thoughts go like this:
A light or darkness spell is immediately dispelled by a higher level spell.
A light or darkness spell is immediately counterspelled by an equal level spell.
This effect takes place whenever these two opposing spells areas of effect meet.
And can we please just make continual flame count as either a second or third level spell for this effect? It's a pain for some people to figure out what level it is when it's an Ioun Torch, Everburning Torch, or monster's spell like ability.
As I said, I get confused by this, easily. Especially when trying to run or play one of the scenarios based around this whole magical area/
** spoiler omitted **
I agree that magical darkness is a big pain in the ass that usually sucks the fun out of a fight. Some scenario writers love it, though.
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Sorry Wraithcannon, after having been over this many times on the Rules board - I am in agreement with Jiggy.
in order to dispel a spell, that spell has to be within range of the spell I am casting. It is the target of my dispel, and must be within range. The range on all the spells you listed is touch. The light/darkness effect is just an area of effect, not a range.
In fact, the light effect is different dependant on the observer. For someone with Low Light vision (an elf or gnome for example) those areas have twice the radius that they have for other creatures. Unless you are saying that an elf can pull out that continual flame and "dispel" the darkness at twice the distance that a human can.
Sorry, N Osig, but that doesn't give a, to me, comprehensible response to Wraithcannon's post, or my confusion.
So, anyone know of a comprehensive and comprehensible primer on "Light & Darkness Effects for Dummies"?
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| 4 people marked this as FAQ candidate. 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
A light or darkness spell is immediately dispelled by a higher level spell.
A light or darkness spell is immediately counterspelled by an equal level spell.
You know what might work better is if instead of immediately counterspelling or dispelling each other, the light and darkness spells of greater level suppress those of a lower level, and equal level spells merely suppress each other, until one expires or the area of effect separates.
That way you don't lose your permanent spell that you paid for due to a short contact with a free darkness spell.
So to sum up:
Light and Dancing Lights are suppressed by all darkness spells.
Continual Flame (This makes a blanket assumption that the Continual Flame was cast by a wizard) is suppressed by Blacklight and Deeper Darkness, and both Darkness and Continual Flame suppress each other.
Daylight suppresses Darkness, and both Black Light and Deeper Darkness suppress Daylight and are suppressed in turn.
The only wrinkle is the wording of the effect when the spells area of effect overlaps, would you want to have only the area of the spell overlapping be suppressed, or once they touch, both entire areas are?
I think this type of rational is the only logical way of dealing with magical darkness and light (wait, did I just say that?). It gives a clear set of guidelines for everyone and throws the nonsense of the whole Heightened Spell argument out the window.
You want to make a fair set of rules, with reasonable workarounds and counters to the attacks that the players will be facing, and I think this achieves that without forcing the players into unreasonable levels of preparation.
If you think this makes sense, favorite this post or mark it for the FAQ.
Thanks
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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I would say these two sentences directly contradict each other.
Magical light sources only increase the light level in an area if they are of a higher spell level than darkness.Light spells counter and dispel darkness spells of an equal or lower level.
Those aren't a contradiction. Countering and dispelling are special effects produced by casting a spell in a specific manner - the same way you would counter or dispel something with dispel magic, only without a CL check. Also, see below:
So which is which? Let's look at the wording in all the light and darkness Spells.
Light can be used to counter or dispel any darkness spell of equal or lower spell level.Light spells counter and dispel darkness spells of an equal or lower level.Daylight counters or dispels any darkness spell of equal or lower level, such as darkness.Darkness can be used to counter or dispel any light spell of equal or lower spell level.Deeper darkness can be used to counter or dispel any light spell of equal or lower spell level.Blacklight counters or dispels any light spell of equal or lower level. Daylight counters or dispels blacklight.
Let's look at a few other spells as well:
Bless counters and dispels bane.
Bane counters and dispels bless.
Consecrate counters and dispels desecrate.
Desecrate counters and dispels consecrate.
Cause fear counters and dispels remove fear.
Remove fear counters and dispels cause fear.
Haste dispels and counters slow.
Slow counters and dispels haste.
How do you suppose these spells work, in regards to these lines? Note in particular that many of them don't have areas of effect (instead targeting individual creatures). However you interpret the "counters and dispels" line from the dark/light spells has to work with these as well. This pretty well rules out any interpretation in which they could counter/dispel each other by having their areas be brought into overlap after they've been cast.
It's so rarely a good tactic for a caster to try and counter or dispel something (outside of dispel magic) that players end up forgetting that there's already an entire countering and dispelling mechanic that permeates the entire Core magic system and encompasses every spell in the game.
Any spell can counter another instance of that same spell.
Spells with diametrically opposed effects (like cause fear/remove fear) can counter or dispel each other, too.
Dispel magic can counter or dispel any spell (instead of just itself or an opposite), but gains a chance of failure (CL check) to balance out its versatility.
And finally, light/dark spells can counter or dispel each other, but this is the same mechanic that's already in place for every spell in the entire game.
And this mechanic has nothing to do with what happens when existing light/dark effects are brought into each others' areas, and does not contradict (or even interact with) the spells' descriptions of that situation in any way whatsoever.
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On a related note, that brings up another useful tactic to use against creatures who can create Darkness or Deeper Darkness. The activation of spell-like abilities can be disrupted just casting a spell can; if somebody in the party gets to act before the creature has used its ability, have them ready an action to attack it if it tries to use a spell-like ability. It's probably going to fail that concentration check with a DC of (10 + damage taken + spell level).
Readying to attack is almost always better than readying to counterspell.
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Wow, lot of suggestions =O
One 1st level spell I was looking at was Peacebond.
You lock a weapon in place on its owner’s body, or within the weapon’s sheath or holster. Anyone who then tries to draw the weapon must spend a standard action and succeed at a Strength check (DC equal to the saving throw DC) to do so, provoking attacks of opportunity whether the attempt succeeds or fails.Probably gonna take Improved Initiative as my 3rd level feat, switch out Sleep for Magic Missile at lvl 4, pick up Spell Focus (Illusion) at 5th and pick up Invisibility at lvl 4 to meet requirements for Veiled Illusionist (The Spell Focus and Invisibility anyway. Still not 100% on the class yet though, would appreciate people weighing in on it)
Edit: Proper link established.
Before you get completely lost in the new light/dark discussion lets address the OP's original question.
In my opinion taking the Veiled Illusionist PrC isn't worth it, especially for PFS.Overall this PrC effectively gives you a watered down version of a 1500GP item (hat of Disguise) with a few situational perks. All this comes at the cost of half your favored class bonuses and any advancement in your Bloodline abilities.
But it's entirely up to you.
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JJ's take on this is that supernaturally dark is a light level, and darkvision still works in deeper darkness unless you're already in dim light or lower.
The wording about deeper darkness blocking darkvision, though not directly indicated in the wording of the spell, just refers to this "supernaturally dark" level. Yes, the spell blocks darkvision, so long as the existing light level before casting deeper darkness is enough to drop it below "darkness". Very RAI.
