First-time Pathfinder player, first session in a week!
I have committed to playing a 1st level Human Alchemist, and we are using only Pathfinder material. For stats, I have 14, 14, 14, 14, 11 and 9.
After looking online, I see two general builds: the bomber and the brute. However, without having enough time to read all of the available material, I haven't yet found out a way to make the guy I want (actually, I wouldn't even know where to start). So I'm asking for help.
I'd like to play a guy similar in style to Doctor Who, someone's who's brilliant, useful, and able to get out of a jam, but not someone who has been pigeon-holed into a role (except maybe a bit of healer). If he could manage without fighting, that would be great, but it seems that he's designed to either throw bombs or hulk out. I like the idea of the alchemist, just not the fighting idea.
Does anyone have any idea of how to fix my problem so that my character is still useful and fun to play, without being a combat guy? Sure, I imagine he'll get into fights sometimes, but that's not his focus - being smart and witty and helpful in a variety of situations would be his thing. We don't have a healer or someone to buff others, so I imagine I'll help with that, too.
Also, can someone tell me how stacking archetypes works?
I appreciate the help!
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Must...resist...suggesting a wand of Open/close
Ok, so alchemists can serve many different roles based on how they are built. For example, while a bomb focused character might be a damage dealer, they might better serve as debuffer of the monster of the week. The right status effect due to a well thrown bomb could make a flying dragon kiss the pavement. Tanglefoot bomb might also be nice since tangling is a nasty condition.
Archetypes can stack when they trade out different things entirely. A guide on alchemist archetypes can be found in Ogre's alchemist guide in the link: here That page has short descriptions of the archetypes, why you might use them, and a list of which archetypes stack. Other pages on Ogre's guide can give you a general feel for the class. Note that some of the more recent discoveries are not covered, but it is still pretty comprehensive. One of the better choices might be preservationist, since they can get summon nature's ally. Summoning is always nice for those that do not want to get physical.
One of the things alchemists do best is survive (which might not be that bad for someone trying to be a timelord). There is a long list of discoveries that allow you to ignore certain status effects, gain additional saves, and get extra hit points per level. Focusing on these, and choosing extracts that help the party deal with problems, might be your best bet as a noncombatant. With 4 + int skill points and all the best buffs, you will find little problem getting your party to accept you as a durable skill monkey. Just grab a dagger or something for when you do have to fight. Grabbing some daggers and taking the quickdraw could make you enough of a melee and ranged combatant to suffice after using an extract.
check out the mindchemist. could be sort of what you're looking for. it also stacks with vivisectionist, the flavor of which is all wrong, but replacing bombs with sneak attack could be a good way to simulate both extensive knowledge of physiology and a much more controlled violence, when he needs to use it, than bombs (if your GM is cool with you changing/ignoring some of the standard flavor).
being smart and witty and helpful in a variety of situations
Have you considered playing a bard? Often new-timers think "sissy with a lute" but bards are far more versatile.
Bards get an impressive variety of skills, spell use with some curative magic, and if you want to stay away from the tunes you could take oratory and inspire courage with witty banter! They are proficient with enough weapons to get in on the occasional scrape too!
I second the suggestion of bard. Check out the archivist archetype.
Perform: Oratory. He does a lot of that!
Bard might be an interesting choice, if only because that all those skill points might make if easier to cover any situation. Versatile performance means that even with modest intelligence you could get a dozen skills maxed out. That way you could quote magi-technobable just as easily as you could charm people into going into monologues. Detective archetype could be interesting depending on your GM.
Great... now I must avoid suggesting a reincarnated druid joke too. I also must avoid hypocritical metahumor.
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I recently tried my hand at a similar non-violent PC, inspired by this thread. I went the route of the Oracle (Lore), and chose the Archaeologist Bard. I used a 25pt buy for it, and went with a level 8 build: Oracle 3/Bard 5.
The Knowledge skills are staggering! It just caught me off-guard that I was able to get EVERY knowledge skill at 18+ for that level, and still have plenty left over!
Of course, I went with the Lore mystery and took the suggested options from earlier... to make use of the Charisma bonuses. I also chose to play a Gnome, and bumped him 1 age category older.
With restricting myself to being a pacifist, and having Hero Points as an option for our non-PFS group, I did opt for the first two Hero Point related feats. I also restricted my Old Gnome to a sword cane, since it fit the image - and left technically being capable of threatening in combat. I tossed in Taunt for good measure, too.
I wound up with an Old Gnome Archaeologist with cataracts (clouded vision curse) who's both quite the charmer, as well as being quite capable of disabling traps - though you need to point out where they are first, as he is sort of blind/near-sighted from the curse. The Oracle/curse bit? I figure he just opened the wrong tomb somewhere along the line... like an elderly Gnomish Indiana Jones...
Yes but I meant that he uses it in the Bardic Music: Fascinate, sense. How many times has he been about to be shot/stabbed/eaten/(insert form of death here), and he starts talking about something (usually quite random), and they all stop trying to kill him/companion.
Thanks everyone!
I've taken a lot of input, and I had decided on just a straight-up alchemist, no particular archetype. Then, you all go and mention the bard. Perhaps I'll multiclass, neverminding the usual stink about multiclassing... Hmmm... gonna read the bard right now. Thanks!
Also, a Wand of Open & Close would be awesome, by the way.
I don't suggest multiclassing. Your mutagen, bombs, extracts will be behind in potential and damage, same applies to bard performance and spells.
I think that a wondrous item with open/close is roughly 2k or so, can be later upgraded with Prestigation(for cleaning, coloring, etc) and mending(for fixing objects).
I second the suggestion of bard. Check out the archivist archetype.+1 here. Dr Who is most definitely a bard. No instrument though, performing with quick wit and sleight of hand.
Depends on the number; the Second Doctor did quite interesting things with a recorder (type of flute, not tape-), and Doctor #12 (Peter Capaldi, most recent) plays a mean bass guitar.
So, there's Wind and Strings right there. ;->
But yeah, Oratory, definitely. ;->
Make sure you get the feat Run.
Nah, Endurance first, then Run. ;->
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I play a mindchemist2/archivist9 in PFS heavily inspired by The Doctor. Outsider with outstanding Int and Cha, dumped Wis. Ridiculous Knowledge skills, even with minimal investment in actual training. Really good Disable Device. Can aid allies or daze enemies by giving a lecture. Almost no combat ability to speak of, save for entangling bombs and the True Strike-Whip trip/disarm.
Oh, and he can now give his allies the ability to manipulate time just a bit (a masterpiece).
Absolutely a blast to play.
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If you want to play as a Doctor Who clone the the Investigator is closer.
Th Alchemist is an alternate magic user inspired by the likes of Jekyl and Hyde. The Investigator is based on Sherlock Holmes WITH ALCHEMY.
The Investigator doesnt have the bombs or mutagens(without special talents) as the the Alchemist, but is a "skillmonkey" class with high intelligence and skill points. Like the Doctor you can know different languages, enemy weaknesses, negotiation, traps, etc.
An investigator with the Sleuth archetype would probably be the closest, though that archetype gives a lot and only receives a little.
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Yes....My power grows...
Yes....My power grows...
And you're surprised at this, you villain?! The Doctor is beloved throughout the universe, it's only right that there are those who wish to emulate him. ;->
LB
I play a mindchemist2/archivist9 in PFS heavily inspired by The Doctor. Outsider with outstanding Int and Cha, dumped Wis. Ridiculous Knowledge skills, even with minimal investment in actual training. Really good Disable Device. Can aid allies or daze enemies by giving a lecture. Almost no combat ability to speak of, save for entangling bombs and the True Strike-Whip trip/disarm.
Oh, and he can now give his allies the ability to manipulate time just a bit (a masterpiece).
Absolutely a blast to play.
Which masterpiece is this? Where's it from? :D
And which Outsider type?
LB
I recently tried my hand at a similar non-violent PC, inspired by this thread. I went the route of the Oracle (Lore), and chose the Archaeologist Bard. I used a 25pt buy for it, and went with a level 8 build: Oracle 3/Bard 5.
The Knowledge skills are staggering! It just caught me off-guard that I was able to get EVERY knowledge skill at 18+ for that level, and still have plenty left over!
Of course, I went with the Lore mystery and took the suggested options from earlier... to make use of the Charisma bonuses. I also chose to play a Gnome, and bumped him 1 age category older.
With restricting myself to being a pacifist, and having Hero Points as an option for our non-PFS group, I did opt for the first two Hero Point related feats. I also restricted my Old Gnome to a sword cane, since it fit the image - and left technically being capable of threatening in combat. I tossed in Taunt for good measure, too.
I wound up with an Old Gnome Archaeologist with cataracts (clouded vision curse) who's both quite the charmer, as well as being quite capable of disabling traps - though you need to point out where they are first, as he is sort of blind/near-sighted from the curse. The Oracle/curse bit? I figure he just opened the wrong tomb somewhere along the line... like an elderly Gnomish Indiana Jones...
Definitely sounds like the First Doctor, but why not a Lore Shaman (when did the ACG come out...)? Basically, all the awesome bits about the Oracle and the Witch, with none of the suck. ;)
LB
Actually I'd suggest a Psychic(archetype) Investigator.
The Doctor does have minor psychic abilities, you've got the skills, the special talents, the Inspiration abilities (which mimic the Doctors ability to pull off crazy plans).
...
Actually I might build this guy for a future game...
Psychic, as in from the new Psionic stuff? That's a thought! :D
LB
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I play a mindchemist2/archivist9 in PFS heavily inspired by The Doctor. Outsider with outstanding Int and Cha, dumped Wis. Ridiculous Knowledge skills, even with minimal investment in actual training. Really good Disable Device. Can aid allies or daze enemies by giving a lecture. Almost no combat ability to speak of, save for entangling bombs and the True Strike-Whip trip/disarm.
Oh, and he can now give his allies the ability to manipulate time just a bit (a masterpiece).
Absolutely a blast to play.Which masterpiece is this? Where's it from? :D
And which Outsider type?
For an outsider, I would suggest a Peri-Blooded Aasimar (Blood of Angels, p. 23), maybe swapping out the spell like ability for something more appropriate.
A Samsaran would also work, but it has the wrong "look and feel" for a Gallifreyan. It's "Past Lives" could represent previous regenerations.
The Masterpiece you are looking for (The Requiem of the Fallen Priest-King) is found on page 23 of Ultimate Magic.
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No matter what, pick up the feat Run. A LOT of running...
No matter what, pick up the feat Run. A LOT of running...
Heh, I still stand by my original thought on that: Endurance first, then Run. :D
But yeah, you're right. ;->
LB
I actually tend to think of the Doctor as an empiricist investigator. Inspiration is just too good to pass up.
So, notwithstanding all the other truly awesome suggestions, you'd suggest Investigator (specifically that archetype) vs. Archivist Bard (who gets Perform: Oratory as a possible class skill, and all those lovely, lovely Knowledge skills/abilities)? Hmm... :)
Been debating between Investigator and Arc. Bard. ;->
Specifically, Psychic Detective (Investigator) and Archivist Bard.
LB
Honestly, we see the Doctor fail knowledge checks all of the time. Even for things he's faced before himself but a long time ago.
Luck is part of why I suggested the Sleuth archetype. It even has a power for running.
Luck is part of why I suggested the Sleuth archetype. It even has a power for running.Good point! I stand corrected!