Monk.
Working on Orko:
Flight 40 (perfect) 13rp (used slow speed as a guide)
Outsider 3rp
Charisma +4, Dexterity +2, Strength -4, Wisdom -2 2rp
Light blindness -2rp (had to find a way to bring down cost)
So far, the total is 16rp, about the same as an aasimar.
1 Here's an idea, how about giving the Trollan race SR 11+level (3rp), but when in our dimension he has to roll against it each time the Trollan casts a spell, meaning that if he fails, something silly happens (like rolling on the Rod of Wonder chart). How much of a discount do you think this would get? Could it be such a detriment that it gets back rp points greater than the cost of the Greater Spell Resistance? Now, I am also thinking of giving him the Deep Magic 3rp (or possibly Elven Magic, or both) trait, which would apply to this check. Considering that every level up he gets cancels out the increase in difficulty his SR creates, only feats or racial traits would reduce the difficulty. I don't want it to be TOO nasty to play a Trollan.
2 I've been doing some thinking, and I honestly think He Man's dexterity is lower than 18 to start out with. The man doesn't do much dodging or whatever. Mostly he just parries with his sword. So, what about a 12 or 14 Dexterity instead? What do you guys think?
3 As for the Charisma, you might be forgetting that he did do a lot of jokes, and he also tended to lead whenever he showed up. Interestingly, while his body was that of a musclebound type, he acted much differently. Still think his Charisma should be lower, or ?
4 What roll do you make for throwing a grappling hook?
5 What roll do you make for tying a rope, thereby securing it for climbing?
bump
1) I don't recall Orko casting many spells on himself. I feel like I remember him casting spells on others quite frequently (which could still go haywire). While the SR idea is an interesting idea, I think a straight percentile roll would suffice to determine if a mistake is made w/ each and every spell.
2) If he's parrying attacks he's still using his Dex to do that. When people attack him just have the DM describe it as a parry instead of a dodge, etc. You can have the same mechanical effect w/ a different description of the event.
3) Last time I watched it the jokes seemed pretty lame. Just b/c you're making jokes doesn't mean you have a higher Charisma, just that you like to make jokes. :P I wouldn't argue against a 14 Charisma though, he did show some leadership qualities on occasion.
4) It's a ranged attack, so Bab + Dex. Unless you mean to throw it onto a balcony or something, then I'd just make up a DC for the before mentioned roll to have to make to succeed. That being said, I made that up and theirs probably a rule in some book somewhere to cover it.
5) I believe I recall 3.x having a "use rope" skill, not that I ever used it... Looking at the "escape artist" skill, they have the DC versus being tied up based on the CMB of the guy that tied you up. So...the game seems to assume anyone can use a rope proficiently. If you're not happy w/ that, I would say you could use an appropriate profession check (like sailing where you use ropes all the time) or perhaps have a straight up Dex check or whichever stat you find appropriate. I couldn't imagine the DC being that difficult though.
1 The rolling against SR thing would apply to ALL spells Orko casts, period. Not just the ones on himself.
2 I suppose. Problem is, He Man didn't just avoid dodging, he plain didn't do much dexterity related skills period. If the high Dex is just to justify a nice AC, I don't buy it. If the hi Dex was for skills as well as the AC, then I would.
3 He Man also did most of the leading on the show. And when he spoke, others listened, always. Now, I would regard that as a 14, perhaps 16 Charisma.
4 So just a simple ranged touch attack? Does a skill come into effect?
5 Puzzling. Maybe a Climb check of some sort? I know knots can be difficult, not just knowing different ones but also knowing when to use them.
Once we get the SR thing settled, Orko should be just about finished as for a guide to recreate him in a regular game. I can sum up what I have, just as I did for He Man (and will again, if I do have his stats change).
What character are you interested in seeing next? I think a friend of mine mentioned Ram Man. Teela might be nice for female players out there.
ps thanks for replying! Its nice to have another mind to bounce ideas around
1) Ah, carry on then.
2) Fair enough. Perhaps throwing a shield bonus on his sword would suffice to bump up his AC (while showing the parrying) w/out unnecessarily raising his Dex.
3) This is true. I suppose I thought of it more as a "he's the sorcerer's chosen champion" thing instead of a "He-man's a great speaker" thing. That being said, 14 charisma sounds fine.
4) The link: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/goods-and-services/tools-kits#TOC -Hook-Grappling
I was pretty close! It's also under the weapon section, for damage and the like. I can't get that link to work properly. :(
5) Considering that climbers typically use rope, it would make perfect sense to make tying a rope a climb check, assuming you would be using the rope to climb.
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No problem, I was a big fan of the cartoon when I was a kid, so seeing some of the characters in Pathfinder format sounds really cool.
So, you think Orko would work? If so, how do I knock down the RP? I think the SR thing is worth more than the 3 points it takes to get it, given how screwy it makes things.
I figure the SR would work great, *IF* Orko was in his home dimension, but since he isn't, *seriously* goofy stunts happen all the time (roll on Rod of Wonder if he fails). Only way to overcome this partially is to take the two SR feats, or somehow gain racial features to compensate. Without them, he'd have to roll a d20 and get past 11, because his level bonus and the SR bonus cancel each other out. That's what, 45% chance to cast successfully? 50%? Those two feats would kick it up 70% chance successful, but is that too low for a regular game? That's what I am worried about.
Shield bonus on He Man's sword... I dunno, does he need it? He already has the harness which grants 6 AC, and will eventually be amped via enhancement and attribute bonuses. That's not even counting the Amulet of Natural Armor effect on his loincloth.
okay, 14 cha done!
hokey dokey, now I just gotta figure out the DC of the Climb check to tie off ropes, or to throw one with a grappling hook attached. At least I got the skill down.
After we get these last tidbits, do you have a preferred character that you would like to see fully fleshed out?
Just wrote up He Man as a 3rd level PC (with more levels etc to come).
Alignment NG
Str 20
Dex 14
Con 20
Int 14
Wis 12
Cha 14
Race: lawbringer aasimar
Levels: Barbarian 2, Monk 1
36hp (average)
Skills: 3 ranks in Acrobatics, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Perception, Stealth, Swim. 1 rank in Climb, Sense Motive.
Languages: Common, Celestial, Widget (Halfling)
Feats: Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple, Stunning Fist, Throw Anything, Raging Vitality
Gear:
adamantine bastard sword (looked too thick to be a longsword)
Mithral Breastplate (later will place glamered on it)
Heavyload Belt
Climbing Kit
Masterwork Backpack
Muleback Cords
Special abilities: +2 Str instead of spell-like ability
Destructive from Breaker Barbarian archetype, Invulnerability from Invulnerable Rager Barbarian archetype. Strength Surge rage power.
Traits: Good Influence, Armor Expert (negates breastplate ACP).
Sigh. Kinda had to break the rules with the two archetypes being used, but there's no overlap of abilities exchanged. Future levels will be in exclusively Barbarian, as I only dipped into Monk to get those 3 feats. Note that I didn't include all the preset racial stuff, the derived numbers etc.
In the future, I figured these would be a good idea (in order):
Rage Powers: Smasher, Intimidating Glare, Terrifying Howl (transformation combined with rage), Powerful Blow, Ground Breaker, Increased DR x3.
Feats: Dodge, Leadership (Cringer/Battlecat), Power Attack, Improved Sunder (yes I know this isn't enough, still thinking)
Gear: Boots of Striding and Springing, Bracers (as Amulet of Mighty Fists +5), Loincloth (as Amulet of Natural Armor +5), Belt of Physical Perfection +6 (combined with Heavyload Belt)
Breastplate/Harness enchantments: +5 enhancement, Reflecting, Glamered, Delving, Jousting, Righteous, Determination.
Sword of Power: Bastard Sword +1, Furious (1), Impact (2), Merciful (1), Dispelling Burst (2), Countering (1), Lightning Burst (2), Delving, Impervious powers, made of adamantine.
Cringer: A straight up Tiger, but change to Dire Tiger with the Celestial animal template upon transformation. Use the Awakened spell thing to make it intelligent and talkative. Use Leadership to dictate how potent Battlecat is, and add levels of Fighter when needed.
tell you what, lets just make his Dex 16, and call him done. I dunno what to do about feats, nor quite what to do about the Sword of Power, though I have presented what I have so far.
Orko: Alot of what to do w/ Orko is dependent on your players. If someone is interested in playing him (or one of his race) for role-playing reasons and doesn't mind being a comic relief character at times (due to the spell wackiness) then it should be fine. If your players are more interested in the mechanical side of the game (as many people on these message boards are) then none of them will play him w/ a 50% chance of being completely infective in combat (or a detriment, depending on what happens) regardless of the natural flying, etc.
You will probably need to do some play testing as well, b/c alot of times things sound fine in theory but don't work out well in practice (ie, lots of archetypes that have been published [I'm looking at you titan mauler!]). Have a friend throw an appropriate CR creature against you playing as Orko at various levels and see what happens. If the frustration level is too high, lower the chance of spell wackiness. I think that will help a lot more than us throwing out random numbers on the internet. :P
I'll look over what you have for He-Man when I have some time to do so.
I'd forgotten all the AC bonuses coming from other places, so a shield bonus (or deflection bonus?) on his sword probably isn't necessary.
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He-man: Monks have alignment restrictions, but I'm assuming you are ignoring these in your homebrew game? Not really a problem, just making sure you're aware. I forget the name of it, but there is a feat that allows a monk to be neutral good, could be handy if a GM didn't like that part.
Skill choices look good. I honesty don't remember him ever being that stealthy, but I may be forgetting those episodes.
Feats and Rage powers look fine.
Depending on your game it may be hard to get stats that high. As long as the GM (perhaps you?) would be ok w/ it, should be fine. Depending on the players there could be some complaining if the He-Man character is thought of as getting preferential treatment.
I have played in homebrew games where the rules on overlapping archetypes were lax, mainly due to fighters not being able to stack anything. Again, should be fine as long as everyone at the table is ok with it.
A thought on future feats: I'm not sure dodge is worth it, only another +1 AC, I usually skip it unless I'm trying to get a super high AC or need it as a prereq. But, if you like the flavor of it, carry on.
Some simple feats that might work are toughness and the various feats to increase saving throws. Or you could trade them in for extra rage powers, if you are having an easier time finding rage powers you like.
You may check if anyone is interested in playing as cringer/battlecat. Kind of weird, I know, but considering he is intelligent, it would be worth checking into. Would prevent requiring the leadership feat, and might provide some interesting roleplaying as Cringer might make more of an attempt to avoid danger. :P
But, if you keep cringer/battlecat as you wrote it, it sounds good.
Just a general thought, If I were trying to play He-Man I would try out that Electus class that someone posted. It looked interesting and would be worth a play test, at least. That being said, I think that your version should work just fine. I'd be interested to hear how it works in game.
Monk(Martial Artist) doesn't have the Alignment Restrictions.
You know, I hadn't caught that. Very nice.
FYI: I was thinking of the trait Enlightened Warrior. Useful for some, but since you only need one level of monk that archetype would suffice.
Orko: Alot of what to do w/ Orko is dependent on your players. If someone is interested in playing him (or one of his race) for role-playing reasons and doesn't mind being a comic relief character at times (due to the spell wackiness) then it should be fine. If your players are more interested in the mechanical side of the game (as many people on these message boards are) then none of them will play him w/ a 50% chance of being completely infective in combat (or a detriment, depending on what happens) regardless of the natural flying, etc.
You will probably need to do some play testing as well, b/c alot of times things sound fine in theory but don't work out well in practice (ie, lots of archetypes that have been published [I'm looking at you titan mauler!]). Have a friend throw an appropriate CR creature against you playing as Orko at various levels and see what happens. If the frustration level is too high, lower the chance of spell wackiness. I think that will help a lot more than us throwing out random numbers on the internet. :P
I'll look over what you have for He-Man when I have some time to do so.
Well, that DC11 (actually the numbers would be higher, but they would be canceled out by the level bonus you get versus SR in this case) can be effectively lowered by taking Spell Penetration and Greater Spell Penetration. That would knock it down to having to roll a 7 or better on a d20. So, it would be basically down to a 30% chance of goofiness. I have considered giving it the Deep Magic trait, which would reduce that down to 20% chance (5 or better to succeed on d20), but the race is worth a lot of pointage already.
He Man's alignment could easily have been LG, as he leans that way already, but have switched to NG and continued leveling as a Barbarian.
Yeah, the stats are uber high, but considering the rather extreme behavioral restrictions (no using sword on living creatures, no killing) it wouldn't really bother me. Remember how they used to have the Paladin in AD&D?
Electus sounds REALLY complicated, compared to this little template. I was more hoping to keep to the core rules, as much as possible.
Somebody run Battlecat? Interesting. I wonder how it would work out? I'd need a seriously goofy group to try it!
I just threw in Dodge because I figured he needed the AC. Most feats don't really FIT He Man. Rage powers... well, some of them do.
Orko: Having the ability to get that percentage down to 20-30% will help a lot. I think the optimizers out there will hate it, but I would enjoy playing him just for the role playing aspects. Sounds like fun.
He-Man: Ah yes, the days of AD&D, when you needed ridiculous stats to play the cool classes. I can see that, if you tag on a "no killing clause" I don't think most other players would complain about the stats. :)
Electus does sound really complicated, which is why I might try to play test it some time, if my GM would be cool with it (fyi: he won't, he's really paranoid of homebrew/3rd party stuff). I like the Electus in theory, but playing one might be too big a headache to worry about. :P
It is hard to pick out feats for He-Man. Only so many help you punch a dude in the face. I think the ones to increase his saving throws ought to work though.
Cringer/Battlecat: I have a friend who loves to play useless/comic relief characters, he would jump at the chance to play Cringer. He's kind of weird though. :P
I think it would work out fine, depending on the player. The fact that he can transform into Battlecat and still contribute to combat should prevent the player from feeling useless. I imagine Cringer would auto fail fear effects or something (or have a really low will save), and Battlecat would get immunity to fear.
Okay, tell you what, I shall keep Orko's flying 40 perfect, the +4cha +2 Dex, -4Str, -2 Wisdom, Deep Magic, Outsider, and the light blindness (although this last doesn't really fit the character, it was just meant to reduce the rps, what do you think?).
Besides, Trollans aren't supposed to be the uber hocus pocus race, they are meant for fun.
Orko himself; might be a sorcerer protean bloodline, unless you can come up with something better.
He Man didn't have a problem with killing robots, or breaking walls. Since undead, constructs, and the nature of evil outsiders being back from the dead anyway, why not have all 3 groups being exceptions to the rule of his not killing?
I could see feats to increase his Intimidate checks and therefore demoralize opponents. Also, Improved trip and disarm etc might be handy. The thing is, you'd have to be the bright sort to play him, since he uses special moves all the time, can't allow yourself to forget them.
Yeah, Cringer would have a horribly negative Will save, but in the series he DID get somewhat braver over time. Seemed resigned to the idea.
Piccolo, first of all I'm a big fan of He-Man!
Now, into business:
What you are trying to do, I belive, can not be fully accomplished using character creation in PF, without resorting to house rules which, in turn, breaks the system.
So, if you are trying to make a playable PC character you have 2 options:
1- Breaking your head trying to figure out what classes and abilities would be more fit; or
2- Simply put in your mind what abilities those charcaters SHOULD have, and give them.
For example: He-Man can be, as Prince Adam, an Aristocrat of ANY level. As He-Man (after transformation by the Sword of Greyskull) he has enormous Strength and Durability. So, what is such strength? I don't know... 40, 50, 80? I think it's irrelevant. Just consider he can, automatically, win any Strength check (unless confronting god-like beings) and bypass Hardness and non-epic DR. His Durability should be represent with immunity to Fatigue and Exhaustion, probably tons of HP.
The problem with stats is that as soon as you give them, you are limiting the character. Want to give a 30 to all physical stats? Fine! Think that a base 20 is enough? That's fine too!
I'm not super familiar w/ the custom race rules, but I think that looks fine (assuming I am remembering what things mean correctly). I agree the light blindness doesn't really fit, but you could always argue the Orko's hat keeps the sun out of his eyes. :P I feel like I remember a magic item that removes the penalties of light blindness...but I can't seem to find it, so maybe it was an old 3.x item or something? Light blindness is pretty bad, so if there isn't something out there a custom feat/magic item may be in order.
I know Trollans are meant to be fun, but there are some out there that only find uber-optimizing fun.
Protean sorcerer sounds good. If something else comes to mind, I'll let you know.
I see no reason He-man couldn't kill constructs, undead, or evil outsiders (assuming the reasoning is based on being alive rather than sentience). You might need to come up w/ some reason why He-man doesn't kill Skeletor, b/c if you make him a lich like I believe you said before, that would be a bit odd. What do you think about oozes, plants, aberrations and vermin? I could understand an argument for any of them. Particularly aberrations and oozes.
I could see He-man using combat maneuvers and intimidating people. It helps to prevent a fight or make someone decide to surrender. Considering his strength, sunder could be a good option.
Well, you see, that was Cringer leveling up and getting a slow progression bonus to his Will Save. :P
Venshad, the point is to create a character that people could actually PLAY, yet still mimic the series. I have the whole thing.
It's basically a build guide. Given time, you could recreate He Man in his entirety, given the basic build here (3rd level) and the guidelines for increasing his abilities as you level up.
Take a look at the last set of He Man stats, and change the Dexterity to 16 as I noted just after it. Now, examine the items he has, and the rage powers and feats he should grab as he gets stronger, same goes for magic items. I dunno, to give Cringer that transformation ability (initiating Rage with Terrifying Howl, and adding in Raging Vitality feat), he'd have to take levels of Barbarian rather than Fighter, and He Man would need to be high level to get that for Cringer.
Now, that light blindness thing of Orko's could be played for laughs, you know.
Well, with Skeletor, there WAS that incident involving Christmas which kinda proves he isn't irredeemably evil. Plus, He Man might not know Skeletor is truly undead now. Finally, he might be holding out hope to reform Skeletor.
Well, did He Man kill any vermin on the show (there was a few giant spiderlike creatures, but still didn't kill them)? I don't recall that he did. Same goes for plants. Oozes I could see him potentially killing them, but aberrations no, since a lot of Skeletor's henchmen might be considered aberrations, like Clawful, Webstor, etc.
Perhaps the trouble of the delayed transformation of Cringer is a good excuse to see if any of your players want to play as him. :P Then Cringer could get those powers much faster. I suppose you could always npc Cringer/Battlecat if you wanted to, that would also separate him from He-Man and give you some flexibility w/ building him. Honestly not sure how that would work out, but might be worth a shot.
Oh yes, the Christmas episode. Even Skeletor can not stand up to the joy of Christmas! I could see He-man restraining himself if he felt Skeletor could be redeemed. Go w/ that.
I thought I remembered He-man throwing a rock on a giant spider or scorpion, but maybe I'm misremembering. It's been a long time.
I also thought I remembered him cutting vines or something from some plant that was trying to grab him, but I don't remember him cutting down the tree or anything, so you could just call that an overly aggressive escape artist check. :P
I don't know that He-man ever fought any ooze like creatures.
Good point on the aberrations, I hadn't really considered that. I was thinking of all of Skeletors henchmen as humanoids, but some of them might be classified as aberrations.
Only problem is, Cringer doesn't have hands. And I have no idea what the racial mods are for his stats, other than grabbing a tiger/dire tiger from the monster manual.
I have no idea if He Man ever killed a giant vermin. Can't recall offhand. I only remember him smashing robots.
Cutting vines... well, I suppose we could include plants.
I told a friend about Orko's race. Who knows, he might be interested. I told him the numbers, that he could get it down to about 20% chance of failure and thus random whatever would happen. I think theres a teamwork feat that would grant another +2 (aka reduce it to 10%), but its situational and you have to get someone else to take it.
I have seen people play characters w/out hands. The first one that jumps to mind was in a Star Wars game where a guy played the equivalent to a rodent that had very minor force powers (to the extent of communicating w/ the player group). He spent most of the game sitting on someone's shoulder making (mostly) useful comments. He was completely useless in combat. Of course, he chose to do that. Most players wouldn't. I was just throwing it out there as an idea. :)
And the dire tiger stats should be fine, other than casting that spell on it and maybe lowering wisdom.
While looking for anything online about He-man fighting vermin (No! Not spider-man!) I found something that I didn't remember at all!
If you're friend plays as Orko or one of his race, let me know how it goes.
Well, I was thinking of TWO sets of stats for the character. One would be Cringer, and would be nearly identical to a straight up tiger, but with the awakened thingy on it.
The other would be basically a dire tiger for Battlecat, but with the awakened spell on it as well, and maybe the Celestial animal template. As for potentially leveling as the character gains xp, I was thinking just levels of straight up Fighter, but with the unarmed archetype.
What sort of stats should we have for Orko?
I figure Charisma would be related to his likability more than anything else, and to defuse tense situations with comedy. Probably his highest stat. His Wisdom I think would be low, probably to the point of taking a penalty. His Strength would be abysmal; he only lifted things with either magic or tiny objects like balls etc. He'd have a good Dex, as he dodged and generally zipped around a lot. Intelligence... maybe above average.
The following is just a series of guesses.
Strength 4?
Dexterity 14?
Constitution 10?
Intelligence 12?
Wisdom 8?
Charisma ??? 16, 18, 22?
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Ah, Piccolo. I like the idea. Been reading the thread. I vomited once I saw the synthesist ideas, and started wanting to slam my head into my laptop after you said no more clearly inappropriate suggestions, and yet they continued to come. *sigh*
Anyway, I feel your pain. I think He-Man and Skeletor are easily made in this, pre-epic level, though cramming the most possible strength on him is an issue that might involve some different kinds of work. I'll offer some suggestions if any come to me but you seem to be on track with things mostly.
I liked the version in the mini comic that came with the original toys.
I, too, greatly preferred the original post-apocalyptic/dystopian He-Man Universe of the first couple of mini-comics over the fantasy/superhero/kid's version pastiche that came later.
I understand why the writers did what they did with He Man's sword. Near as I can figure, undead, plants, constructs, anything relatively unintelligent/unaware, oozes etc and possibly evil outsiders he could use his sword on.
Synthesist just didn't work, too much spellcasting and the like.
Skeletor is deceptively difficult to make. I figure he's undead, and has a lot of musculature for a guy who either talks or zorches. He likes raw power, and tries for CE, but has a good streak in him as he has a soft spot for kids. But picking out a class would be tough!
That's why I thought the only difficult thing about Cringer and Orko would be the race, and proceeded to fake Cringer/Battlecat, plus start work on Orko. Tried to get some direction as to where to go next, but nobody volunteered a subject.
Still working on which feats to use. I think I have the rage powers correct though. Suggestions are welcome.
He Man Alignment NG
Str 20
Dex 16
Con 20
Int 14
Wis 12
Cha 14
Race: lawbringer aasimar
Levels: Barbarian 2, Monk 1
36hp (average)
Skills: 3 ranks in Acrobatics, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Perception, Stealth, Swim. 1 rank in Climb, Sense Motive.
Languages: Common, Celestial, Widget (Halfling)
Traits: Good Influence, Armor Expert (negates breastplate ACP).
Feats: Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple, Stunning Fist, Throw Anything, Raging Vitality
Gear:
adamantine bastard sword (looked too thick to be a longsword)
Mithral Breastplate (later will place glamered on it)
Special abilities: +2 Str instead of spell-like ability
Destructive from Breaker Barbarian archetype, Invulnerability from Invulnerable Rager Barbarian archetype. Strength Surge rage power.
Sigh. Kinda had to break the rules with the two archetypes being used, but there's no overlap of abilities exchanged. Future levels will be in exclusively Barbarian, as I only dipped into Monk to get those 3 feats. Note that I didn't include all the preset racial stuff, the derived numbers etc. Max out Acrobatics, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Climb, Swim at all times.
Gear: Boots of Striding and Springing, Bracers (as Amulet of Mighty Fists +5), Loincloth (as Amulet of Natural Armor +5), Belt of Physical Perfection +6 & Heavyload Belt combined, Muleback Cords, Climbing Kit, Masterwork Backpack, Manual of Gainful Exercise +5 (Strength).
Breastplate/Harness enchantments: +5 enhancement, Reflecting, Glamered, Delving, Jousting, Righteous, Determination.
Sword of Power: Bastard Sword +1, Furious (1), Impact (2), Merciful (1), Dispelling Burst (2), Countering (1), Lightning Burst (2), Delving, Impervious powers, made of adamantine.
Cringer: A straight up Tiger, but change to Dire Tiger with the Celestial animal template upon transformation. Use the Awakened spell thing to make it intelligent and talkative. Use Leadership to dictate how potent Battlecat is, and add levels of Fighter when needed.
Barb 2nd Strength Surge rage power, Throw Anything feat
Barb 3rd add 1 Strength, Breaker archetype power (Fire resist)
Barb 4th Weapon Focus feat, Ground Breaker rage power
Barb 5th
Barb 6th Dazzling Display feat (By the power of Grayskull!), Intimidating Glare rage power
Barb 7th add 1 Strength
Barb 8th Terrifying Howl rage power (I have the power!), Leadership feat (Cringer/Battlecat)
Barb 9th
Barb 10th Smasher rage power, Power Attack feat
Barb 11th add 1 Strength
Barb 12th Rolling Dodge rage power, Improved Sunder feat
Barb 13th
Barb 14th add 1 Strength, Raging Leaper rage power, feat
Barb 15th
Barb 16th Increased Damage Reduction rage power, feat
Barb 17th
Barb 18th add 1 Strength, Increased Damage Reduction rage power, feat
Barb 19th
Barb 20th Increased Damage Reduction rage power, feat
Trollan race
Flight 70 (perfect) 16 rp
Slow speed x3 -3rp (flight 40 perfect)
Light Blindness -2rp
Outsider 3rp
+4 Cha, +2 Dex, -4 Str, -2 Wis 2 rp
Greater SR 11+level, but also has to roll against own SR not to botch a spell (roll Rod of Wonder if fail).
Deep magic 3rp (2 vs sr and dispel magic checks)
19rp total, possibly less because SR is one heck of a hindrance.
Piccolo, I like what you've done w/ He-man. I see you still have a couple high level feats to figure out, if anything occurs to me, I'll let you know.
Really like the Trollan race. I think you could safely subtract an rp point or two for the spell resistance.
With the stat bonuses(penalties) for Trollans the average for the race would be Str 6, Dex 12, Con 10, Int 10, Wis 8, Cha 14. I feel like I remember some episodes where Orko is talking to some other Trollans (perhaps in a flashback?). Do you recall those episodes? Is it possible to get an idea of how Orko compares to those other Trollans (to gauge how above/below average he may be in comparison to others of his race)?
I think a Cha of 18 (or possibly higher) would easily make sense b/c he relied so much on his magic (and that is his casting stat). I honestly can't remember well enough for his Int. I remember him doing wacky things, but that would mainly be due to his low wisdom (I think an 8 would be good) or his magic handicap. I don't recall if he ever seemed to be that knowledgeable...
I agree w/ his Str being quite low, a 4-6 would probably be good. I can't recall him ever being hit to gauge his Con, but I feel like he wouldn't take a hit very well...that could just be shown by his Sorcerer HP though... Dex ought to be pretty good, at least a 14, maybe higher, he did evade attacks quite well.
Well, I dunno about some of the rage powers, as I wanted to include the 3 Hurler versions but figured they sucked up too many slots for too little result. Right now, I have him throwing boulders that do 6d6+Strength in damage, and considering what he's got to bring to bear, that seemed reasonable. Particularly once I get that Strength Surge, Rage, the +5 inherent, the Belt, etc kicked in. Seriously, He Man is a Strength specialist.
As an aside note, I always wanted to run a Fighter troll who was cowardly when it came to fire and acid as a PC...
Yeah, there are at least 2 episodes. As I recall, he was considered a celebrity over there, and in his home plane, he's a badass when it comes to magic. So I figure maxing out his Charisma score would make sense. He wasn't their leader; the most experienced was his uncle, who could possibly kick Orko's keister.
Orko seemed bright, just had very little forethought to him, aka lack of wisdom. You sure 8 is right, that's supposed to be typical for his species?! I was thinking somewhat around the realm of 6.
Right now we have his Dex set at 14, though we could jump it to 16, however that would be almost a primary attribute, and he seemed to be not super dextrous. That's why I pegged him at 14. I put him above average Int at 12, as he was bright but certainly not brilliant. I got no clue where to set his Con rating!
Still got him pegged as being on the Protean bloodline, but am unsure. I figure a Portable Hole with an auto retrieve function like Handy Haversack but screwed up would work for his hat.
Now, realize that due to his racial bonus, and the two Penetration feats, he can get that chance for goofball spell results down to about a 20% chance per spell cast, and that doesn't count the one teamwork feat that could drop it down another 10%, but he'd have to be casting next to the other guy who has the feat. Is that good?
Rich Burlew for Order of the Stick already designed an entire Base Class for this. Stop trying to cram a square peg in a round hole and go with something that actually fits.
Here you go. (just replace Flight with whatever you think He-Man would have instead, like Damage Reduction, or extra strength)
@Piccolo: I thought I remembered those episodes! Maxing out charisma sounds good. I couldn't recall Orko's interactions in those episodes though, so if he seemed particularly unwise in comparison, knocking wisdom down to 6 sounds good. I think with the super low str and wis he could probably have a second stat be fairly high, so I'd go with dex as far as that goes. I think a 16 would be appropriate (as long as charisma isn't too ridiculous to start out). I'm at a loss for the Con as well. Perhaps just going with a 10 will be fine?
I think the Protean bloodline is probably the best option. I still haven't had a better option come to me.
Perhaps you could apply the same spell resistance effects to him pulling items from his hat?
I think getting the % down to 10-20 should be fine...but if you're doing a homebrew game I might suggest a way to consistently getting it around 10%...perhaps something like the Inquisitors ability to use teamwork feats by themselves (but in this case just w/ the SR one)? I know Orko was pretty random in his spell casting, but it could be frustrating to have your spells keep failing on a string of bad rolls... You may just need the right person to play Orko, some people deal with this kind of thing better than others. You know your players. :)
A cowardly troll fighter does sound fun to play.
@Doomed Hero: An interesting idea. I'll add this to the list of interesting things my GM won't let me try out in his games. :P
Rich Burlew for Order of the Stick already designed an entire Base Class for this. Stop trying to cram a square peg in a round hole and go with something that actually fits.
Here you go. (just replace Flight with whatever you think He-Man would have instead, like Damage Reduction, or extra strength)
I did it on purpose. I wanted anyone to be able to run this character, without major changes to the game system. As it is, I am breaking a rule by allowing a cherry pick out of two different archetypes, Breaker and Invulnerable Rager.
Second, I don't see what's wrong with it. It actually WORKS. Only thing is that I don't know how to adjudicate thrown boulders and how much damage they do. Best idea I had was to use catapult stats.
@Piccolo: I thought I remembered those episodes! Maxing out charisma sounds good. I couldn't recall Orko's interactions in those episodes though, so if he seemed particularly unwise in comparison, knocking wisdom down to 6 sounds good. I think with the super low str and wis he could probably have a second stat be fairly high, so I'd go with dex as far as that goes. I think a 16 would be appropriate (as long as charisma isn't too ridiculous to start out). I'm at a loss for the Con as well. Perhaps just going with a 10 will be fine?
Well, the highest his Charisma could be on start is 22, is that too high for you?
Orko basically had the Wisdom score (forethought) capability of a little kid, maybe 8 years old. So I wasn't sure, but I thought Wis 6 would work for that.
Sure, we can make Dex 16 (gets a +2 from race) if you think the Cha 22 isn't too high to start out with (recall that he gets a +4 due to race).
After mulling it, Orko DID take some abuse, mostly due to his own mishaps. So how about a 12 Con?
Perhaps you could apply the same spell resistance effects to him pulling items from his hat?
I think getting the % down to 10-20 should be fine...but if you're doing a homebrew game I might suggest a way to consistently getting it around 10%...perhaps something like the Inquisitors ability to use teamwork feats by themselves (but in this case just w/ the SR one)? I know Orko was pretty random in his spell casting, but it could be frustrating to have your spells keep failing on a string of bad rolls... You may just need the right person to play Orko, some people deal with this kind of thing better than others. You know your players. :)
Well, what we are dealing with is basically either a 1-2 (with the teamwork feat) or a 1-4 on a d20 for each spell cast. That's not too outrageous, considering that most of the time even warrior types miss badly if they roll that bad to hit. Do you think his SR would apply to wands and the like as well, should Orko use them? I am thinking yes.
@Doomed Hero: An interesting idea. I'll add this to the list of interesting things my GM won't let me try out in his games. :P
Exactly my point, which is why I made He Man the way I did. It also means he fits into game balance.
Let's see...
Orko: Str 6, Dex 16, Con 12, Int 12, Wis 6, Cha 22
That's the equivalent of a 24 point character. You could just alter it as needed if you were in a 20 point game, probably by lowering either Str or Dex. And it's early, so if I messed up my math, please correct me. :P
The point of the above to say that those stats don't look out of place in some games, depending on the point buy for the game.
Well, what we are dealing with is basically either a 1-2 (with the teamwork feat) or a 1-4 on a d20 for each spell cast. That's not too outrageous, considering that most of the time even warrior types miss badly if they roll that bad to hit.
True enough. I would think the first few levels could be kind of rough, but once some of those feats kick in, that's not too bad. It's basically (at least how I think of it) a % mischance in exchange for constant flight. Then their would be a thread on this forum where people argued if the flight was worth it. :P
Question, would you allow Orko to take a standard action to lower his SR like other characters can? I could see making him always deal w/ it in regard to his own magic, but I was curious if you would make the healer deal w/ it outside of combat, for example.
Do you think his SR would apply to wands and the like as well, should Orko use them? I am thinking yes.
Orko should definitely use wands. Basically all magic users do at some point, so I see no reason he wouldn't.
...I'm considering rather or not his SR should come into play...
I would say no for any kind of item that grants a constant effect (like a headband of Int or something). That would just be too much book keeping.
I think the question is rather it's the way he casts spells or if there is something inherent about Orko that causes his magic to be wonky. If it's him, then it could make sense for a wand he was using to act wonky too. If it's the way he casts the spells though, then the wand shouldn't be effected (I would think). Thoughts?
Only thing is that I don't know how to adjudicate thrown boulders and how much damage they do. Best idea I had was to use catapult stats.
This inflicts damage as a falling object plus the barbarian’s Strength bonus.
Well, we know that Orko's magic works perfectly and fairly powerfully in his home dimension, and elsewhere it's goofy. Second, his magic seemed to get better over time, even occasionally working properly especially when it was an emergency. Would that apply to wands, because that's what we know about his magic nature? Wait, there was that one time he tried to use dragon fire to amp his powers, and it went all fireworks on him....
Also no, it'd be too much trouble to have his funny SR apply to constant items, so that's out.
Where others casting spells on Orko is concerned, the real question is, which do you think would be funnier? That's the whole point to the character, you know. Maybe he could lower his SR normally, but the DM would secretly roll against his SR as if he was casting against his own magic as normal to see if something goofy happens when his buddies cast a spell on him?
As for the first few levels, all Orko would have to do is take Spell Penetration at 1st, and Greater Spell Penetration at 3rd to get it down to 20% right off the bat. The teamwork feat couldn't be taken until 5th, and he'd have to convince a buddy to do so as well. Oh, and since he doesn't just have ANY level of flight, he's got PERFECT at 40, meaning he's as fast as a Barbarian AND he can do whatever he wants in the air at all times. That's one heck of a draw for players! Better yet, he gets a bennie to dispel magic, and a whopping +4 to Oracle and Sorcerer magic, beating out the Ifrit as having the biggest bonus because of the additional +2 Dexterity! Who needs Strength and Wisdom as a Sorcerer anyway?
PS Do you think anyone would be interested in my adaptations of 3.5 Faerunian races to Pathfinder?
I do not recall the dragon fire example, but that would point towards having wands effected by the SR as well, I believe.
Rather it's funny or not is highly subjective. I know people who would think it was hilarious (even if it happened to them) and I know people who would get highly frustrated about wasting a spell. Depends on the table. I could see a cleric (a particularly annoyed one) telling Orko to buy a wand of cure light and heal himself using UMD. Then wacky hijinks ensue. :P
Yeah, perfect flight is pretty awesome. I would take that option.
I suppose the sorcerers who decide to take the bloodlines with claws (and intend to use them) like strength, but there aren't many of those. Well, at least that I've played with.
I'm sure there would be some people who would be interested in the adaptations of Faerunian races. I'm kind of indifferent myself, but I know several people who loved Faerun.
Should I do a full write up for Orko, or is the race and stats fine being partial?
I think the race and stats are fine, Orko could easily be put together using what's here if someone wanted to. Unless you plan on having your players run into him as an npc or something, might as well then, right? :P
I just figured out that a straight up Tiger is a 7 Leadership cohort, while the straight up dire Tiger is a 16 Leadership score. That means Cringer is worth 7, while Battlecat is worth 16.
As such, all He Man could afford would be Cringer for a very long time. Couldn't get Battlecat until he's level 17.
Well...that's unfortunate.
Perhaps the traits Natural-Born Leader or Ethical Leader could be used to help a little (although I must say I like the ones you picked out, particularly Good Influence). Are you including the bonuses for a good reputation and having a stronghold? (I would think Castle Grayskull counts for that, right?)
Alternatively, this is a good excuse to see if anyone actually wants to play as Cringer. :)
Let me consider other options...
You still can't have a Cohort whose effective level is more than [(Your Level)-2].
Well, basically I compared the CR of the hound archon and one of the devils, cr 4 and 8 respectively. According to the chart, you have to be 7th level to get the first, and 17th to get the second.
Yeah, I gave him the entire plus six the book allows, and of course the plus two from his Charisma.
Picked out Armor Expert because it removes completely the acp, although I could remove it for Comfort enchantment in favor of Ethical Leader.... Good idea, but it only helps a little, not removes the problem.
You need a Leadership of 23 to get Battlecat, and you have to be a minimum of 18th level to pull it off. He Man could technically afford Battlecat as of level 17, but he has to get to 18th to maintain that 2 level higher caveat.
Therefore, Ethical Leader isn't necessary, unless we want to have high level Followers.