Goblin Squad Member
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These are two skills that really get underplayed in MMO's most of the time yet opens up some amazing possibilities.
I would really like to see swimming used in PFO not only in natural settings but in dungeons. We're in the River Kingdoms, yes? It would be a waste of a great resource not to include swimming as a trainable skill as well as transport via water vehicles.
It would also be great to have flight actually matter when fighting aerial creatures. Combat against them should be difficult without a ranged attack of some kind or way of grounding them. Adding flight to a characters abilities would only help to improve the game as well.
Use of the z axis in such a manner would need to be implemented from the get go so I want to strongly encourage it now.
Flight, swimming and water vehicles are all things I think we should have. They just make battles more interesting.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I would really love Swimming, Climbing, and Flight to all be in the game. They will all require significant resources to make happen though.
Climbing in particular can be VERY difficult to code. Every vertical wall in the game will have to have object collision, a climbing DC, and character will need to be able to have animations of climbing that avoid clipping and don't just look like going up a ladder.
Long story short, I would expect to see them eventually, but not at the minimum viable product stage of the game that is EE.
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Goblin Squad Member
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EQ1 had swimming and a trainable swimming skill. It also had a lame levitation spell.
City of Heroes had the best flight system I have seen in a game, but no swimming or climbing. D&D Online has a neat swimming system, but no climbing beyond ladders. Tera has decent climbing. The Secret World and SW:TOR doesn't have anything in place for any of them.
I don't really care about how other games treat Swimming, Climbing, and Flight. I would like them to be in this game, but because of the difference in the way this game is being made and every other MMO we can discuss, it isn't reasonable to expect it to be in the game at EE. They require a lot of work to implement in a game, and GW just doesn't have the resources needed to devote to a system that can be considered an extra when core game-play elements must be in place first.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I do like the idea of weather effects and the usefulness of furs in cold weather.
If settlements get moats, or can be built in the crook of a river, then water shold be a powerful disincentive to armored passage, yes.
Particularly if they are pushed or fall into the water near the edge while wearing their Sunday's best, shiniest plate mail.
In fact Firefall and Age of Wushu have some good use of the z-axis: It makes the whole world feel as if it has more depth if there are more levels of perspective up and down and sideways.
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Goblin Squad Member
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... The Secret World and SW:TOR doesn't have anything in place for any of them...
TSW and SW:ToR both have ladder climbing. The one in SW:ToR that I recall specifically is a ladder in a jumping puzzle leading to one of the enhancement artifacts deep in Coruscent if memory serves. TSW has two ladders that I recall in the starting town, one at the crab restaurant on the bay and one near the post office/mining museum.
I would like to see (eventually) swimming as a side skill which would include the length of time a player can remain underwater as they raise in skill.
I would love to see water populated with an appropriate variety of aquatic creatures, not only fish but creatures from the PFRPG. The lakes,rivers and streams should have stuff that's been dropped, tossed and deliberately sunk to the bottom instead of it being barren like most MMOs. Boats, ships, cargo all sunk beneath the water for the adventurous that dare to explore.
It would be very cool to defeat some large water dwelling creature, then dive down to find their lair and explore it gathering up loot from other adventurers who lost the battle against the creature.
As far as flight goes, I'll leave that up to the Devs. But when fighting flying creatures it would be nice to see them grounded once they reach say half their total hit points, like what happens to dragons in Skyrim.
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Goblin Squad Member
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... The Secret World and SW:TOR doesn't have anything in place for any of them...TSW and SW:ToR both have ladder climbing. The one in SW:ToR that I recall specifically is a ladder in a jumping puzzle leading to one of the enhancement artifacts deep in Coruscent if memory serves. TSW has two ladders that I recall in the starting town, one at the crab restaurant on the bay and one near the post office/mining museum.
I stand corrected, but I've played both games and don't remember climbing in them, so it isn't really a big part of either game.
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Goblin Squad Member
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If settlements get moats, or can be built in the crook of a river, then water shold be a powerful disincentive to armored passage, yes.
Yeah, and sneaky sneakers could sneak in and steal stuff, then sneak out, but would have to be in proper gear (leather, or nothing) or they'd sink like a rock (plate).
Bloop.
Come to think of it, low crawl, stoop, crouch, crawl, reach, among others are actions/emotes that get no love. In many games characters are running around and hit an obstacle that becomes an impasse. Visually all the character would have to do is stopp for a few steeps, but that option is not available.
Cave complexes really require crawling, belly-crawling, strafing, rock-climbing....all these actions should be viable choices (if planned in advance using the character models).
To those who want flight, what specifically do you have in mind?
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Goblin Squad Member
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In the Environmental Experience you could walk underwater. And I was able to break through one of the stairs into the room below (empty), so there will be stairs. I hope they change the speed of walking up or down stairs. It might be possible to treat vertical objects as very steep stairs, but we'll probably have to wait for the next experience release to see that, if there is to be one.
As an aside to swimming, will environmental conditions affect our ability to live? Like drowning, or swimming in lava, or the spell equivalents of stinking cloud or suffocate. What will happen to our husk if we drown, or become consumed while madly swimming lava?
I agree that flying may be low on their list for expending development resources, but that may be an excellent crowdforging question.
As an aside to swimming, will environmental conditions affect our ability to live? Like drowning, or swimming in lava, or the spell equivalents of stinking cloud or suffocate. What will happen to our husk if we drown, or become consumed while madly swimming lava?
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Since they are doing the husk retains loot concept, they should allow for the player to /drag their husk so that they can loot it in safer areas then where the player usually dies. Most games that have this require you to be X distance from your husk before the drag command works. This allows the player to move their husk from mob lairs or from the AI path of mobs etc.. This would also allow the player to retrieve their husk from underwater, in lava etc.. (Places where the player would die trying to loot their stuff)
In addition to the /drag command, it would be nice if they also added a" /consent (player name) drag" command, which would enable you to grant another player the ability to move your husk. Initially this might not seem important, but within the game it's got a number of useful benefits. I also would suggest adding the command "/consent (player name) loot"!which would allow the specified player the ability to loot your husk without flags or penalty. That way if your far from the place you died, or if a huge battle is raging, your sort on time, another player can grab the important stuff from your husk leaving the trivial stuff to pop. Obviously both the drag and loot commands come with some risk, but I never had a problem because I never gave anyone permission to drag or loot my husk that I didn't know well.
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Goblin Squad Member
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To those who want flight, what specifically do you have in mind?Fly and Overland Flight spells, Druid Wild Shape, and wings from sorcerer bloodlines or dragon disciple.
i will try to answer Clynx (though i'm not really pushing for flight)
-the ability to soar up and view the map from above
-fast movement as the crow flies
-3d mounted combat and fly-by attacks (depending on how mounted combat is implemented)
-air-to-surface/surface-to-air ranged combat (archery and spells)
-maneuverability ratings (and/or fly skill) so that fliers cannot just hang in midair and rain fire down on the enemy army without fear of falling down.
and from the perspective of a ground-hugging melee guy: bolas or tanglefoot bags to bring the pesky fliers crashing down. Failing that, Tenser's Floating Disk that gives you full cover from above...
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Goblin Squad Member
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What will happen to our husk if we drown, or become consumed while madly swimming lava?
I say you got to be a good swimmer to get back the stuff. As for lava, well it should be like a black hole: bye bye, nice to have known you. You not going to get those back. How longer would a magical item endure the constant extreme melting heat? Besides, how would one retrieve surviving magical items that sank deep into the lava, without some extremely powerful magic? If you going into a lava area, you taking on a huge risk of dying, and loosing all your gear. That's life for taking on huge risks.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I would really love to see a "Soaking Wet" debuff that gets applied when you go swimming.
Dragon's Dogma had this actually. If you fell into a body of water you became drenched and until you dried off you were more vunerable to lightning damage (and maybe ice), but got a little bit of fire resistance. They also had one for oil that made you take DOT from fire.