Goblin Squad Member
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So we're looking at a world where the teamsters whiz by on the traderoutes hardly seen before they are gone, unless it is by bandits exerting a speed trap with Stand and Deliver.
But what happens to the Travelling Salesman when he speeds into an escalated hex?
You'll remember the escalation mechanic where goblins, hobgoblins and other monsters can overpopulate and become belligerent. Will such escalated mobs exert SAD-like mechanics to stop the teamster fast travelling through their area?
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Goblin Squad Member
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I would hope so. This would give bandits, npc competition and create a common foe for both PC Merchsnts and PC Bandits.
Bandit companies such as mine have an interest in eliminating escalated mobs from hexes, to clear the way for our own hide outs and SAD opportunities. We could also be contracted to do this, thus making coin while we perform this good deed, albeit with an anterior motive.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Might be hard to get NPCs to do the SAD mech. If possible I think it would be great and add to the game. As Bluddwolf said they would be an enemy of the PC bandits and merchants.
Likely they would just be bandits of the "your dead thanks for the loot" variety. Still I think these would be a enemy to the PC Bandits. I'd go after the guys taking my easy meal ticket away.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Might be hard to get NPCs to do the SAD mech. If possible I think it would be great and add to the game. As Bluddwolf said they would be an enemy of the PC bandits and merchants.
Likely they would just be bandits of the "your dead thanks for the loot" variety. Still I think these would be a enemy to the PC Bandits. I'd go after the guys taking my easy meal ticket away.
I didn't intend the whole SAD mechanic but just the part where the fast traveller is forced into normal time to where he has to deal with two dozen escalated goblins jumping out of the bushes.
Yeah, it sounds like a good idea. Makes guard duty extra-interesting. And like Bluddwolf said, it makes an interesting dynamic between merchants and bandits. The bandits might actually have to leave the merchants alone just to handle the crazed goblin raiders!
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Goblin Squad Member
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If the said mob type (rolls dice) is one of your allied types then they may react differently? That would be a good basis and conversely your enemy type with several sub-possibilities?
If I adequately understand, you're right as usual, Avena. Surely it would make a difference what alignment the escalation is and that should key off the alignment of the traveller.
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Goblin Squad Member
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If the said mob type (rolls dice) is one of your allied types then they may react differently? That would be a good basis and conversely your enemy type with several sub-possibilities?If I adequately understand, you're right as usual, Avena. Surely it would make a difference what alignment the escalation is and that should key off the alignment of the traveller.
I don't see why alignment of mobs vs. alignment of players would make a difference. Will there be good mobs in escalation?
Of not, then only CE, CN, LE, NE mobs would be in escalation and they would attack anyone of any alignment.
This is way off topic, so ill just mention it and follow it up elsewhere.
Say your a player, a NG Ranger that's been checking out a hex and you notice a rather large bandit band lurking around a choke point on a roadway. So without them noticing you, you head in the opposite direction intending to leave the hex. When you notice an approaching caravan and realize it will drive right into an ambush by the bandits.
Shouldn't there be an option for this NG Ranger to force the caravan out of fast travel, think of it like "flagging them down" in order to warn them about the bandits they are heading right towards?
The problem with that is it makes a good griefing tool, doesn't it?
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Goblin Squad Member
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The problem with that scenario is that in most cases bandits will spring their attack or SAD from their hideout. Hideouts are hidden, very difficult to being discovered, according to the Dev Blog. This would new that your Ranger would not see the bandit ambush, before it happened.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The problem with that scenario is that in most cases bandits will spring their attack or SAD from their hideout. Hideouts are hidden, very difficult to being discovered, according to the Dev Blog. This would new that your Ranger would not see the bandit ambush, before it happened.
Very difficult != impossible.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The problem with that scenario is that in most cases bandits will spring their attack or SAD from their hideout. Hideouts are hidden, very difficult to being discovered, according to the Dev Blog. This would new that your Ranger would not see the bandit ambush, before it happened.Very difficult != impossible.
Unless actively searching for a hideout, yes impossible. The Dev blog did not make it seem that a hideout could be found by accident. When I'm home I'll search for the reference and posts that support this.
But, if you are going to hold to a 1 in a 1000000 then I'll concede.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The problem with that scenario is that in most cases bandits will spring their attack or SAD from their hideout. Hideouts are hidden, very difficult to being discovered, according to the Dev Blog. This would new that your Ranger would not see the bandit ambush, before it happened.Very difficult != impossible.Unless actively searching for a hideout, yes impossible. The Dev blog did not make it seem that a hideout could be found by accident. When I'm home I'll search for the reference and posts that support this.
But, if you are going to hold to a 1 in a 1000000 then I'll concede.
Say your a player, a NG Ranger that's been checking out a hex
That could very well include searching for hideouts (though not necessarily YOUR hideout specifically). Don't count on being immune to detection, people know that hideouts exist, they are going to be looking for them as precautions - or just to get at the soft chewy centers ;)
The problem with that scenario is that in most cases bandits will spring their attack or SAD from their hideout. Hideouts are hidden, very difficult to being discovered, according to the Dev Blog. This would new that your Ranger would not see the bandit ambush, before it happened.Very difficult != impossible.
I don't see it this way. Oh sure for a class like a Paladin or a Sorcerer it's safe to say they stand no chance of finding bandits in their hideout. But for a Ranger, seeing where a group of bandits has passed shouldn't pose much of a problem, especially if he uses his Tracking skill. I doubt there's any role that could hide from a Ranger in the woods with the exception of a Rogue if they are highly skilled, perhaps.
But, in my example above the bandits were NOT hiding in their hideout, they were near a choke point along the roadway, so the whole hideout thing is moot in my example. I also set the placement of the bandits far enough away from where the ranger was to enable the ranger to notice the caravan before the bandits did so that he could stop the caravan prior to the bandits knowing there is a caravan in the area.
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Goblin Squad Member
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If the said mob type (rolls dice) is one of your allied types then they may react differently? That would be a good basis and conversely your enemy type with several sub-possibilities?If I adequately understand, you're right as usual, Avena. Surely it would make a difference what alignment the escalation is and that should key off the alignment of the traveller.I don't see why alignment of mobs vs. alignment of players would make a difference. Will there be good mobs in escalation?
Of not, then only CE, CN, LE, NE mobs would be in escalation and they would attack anyone of any alignment.
Well just linking Being's suggestion of variable response (ie S.A.D) to the blog:
Alliances in Pathfinder Online
Alliances are going to be a major system. Players will be able to join them, access special items, add special buildings to their settlements, etc., but these alliances are not going to be the core of the story. While they will be involved in some escalation cycles (i.e., monster spawn and quest sets that tell a story over time in a specific hex, such as a hex that has been infiltrated by a goblin tribe), they will not be the primary drivers of the story in Pathfinder Online; we want that to be the players. Alliances will provide resources and goals for players to pursue, but they will not be shaping the overall environment outside of the NPC settlements they control. Alliances are for color and story, not to take the limelight away from the players.
Alliance Mechanics
Each alliance could be a major alliance, a minor alliance, or a local group.
- Major alliances are international groups with vast resources that have a vested interest in the River Kingdoms, such as Hellknights. Major alliances will have significant gameplay elements like distinctive armor and special settlement upgrades.
- Minor alliances are primarily nation-specific groups that have little interest in the River Kingdoms, such as the Gray Gardeners or the Technic League (both of which border the River Kingdoms but have limited interest in it). Minor alliances will have moderate gameplay elements such as signature clothes and armor or weapons.
- Local groups call some portion of the River Kingdoms their home, such as the Denizens of the Echo Wood, The Black Eagles of Lambreth, or the Daggermark Assassins Guild. Local groups will have limited gameplay elements: usually a single weapon or piece of clothing or armor.
So S.A.D could be one of several possible responses (positive, neutral, negative) to varying degree that players could experience depending on the interaction between THEIR alignment and the mob they engage with (in escalation possibly)? I think this sort of permutation would go down well with more pve/rpg/immersion type of players - and be fairly integrated into what GW want to do with Escalations anyway?
Eg one idea, IF(very positive alignment match) THEN(players direct which way that Escalation builds towards!)?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Did I miss something? I thought that there was no "Fast Travel" but only the Flag that gives you the ability to carry more and +Movement speed
That was the Neutral PvP 'traveller' flag.
There is also a fast travel option if you have already been to your destination. It allows the player character to move much faster than normal walking or trotting such as you are confined to when first exploring the route.
Teamsters who don't use the neutral Traveler PvP flag then would fast travel to make their delivery. Hoever bandits in their hideouts can trigger a SAD (Stand and Deliver) that effectivly knocks the merchant/teamster out of fast travel, allowing the bandits to make their ultimatum to either pay up or get rolled.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I don't see why alignment of mobs vs. alignment of players would make a difference. Will there be good mobs in escalation?
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Well that is really the question I think. If you are, say, a CE merchant trying to make a delivery of new shortswords to a distant CE town in dire need of weaponry and you cross a hex where CE Goblins are swarming they likely wouldn't bother you would they? Or would they? Maybe.
For the sake of the argument lets say they might not bother you.
However if LG commoners escalate too, lets say yoour CE players haven't been thinning them out, what if those escalating commoners spawn a militia?
So there you are running along with your load of short swords and this escalated militia pops you out of fast travel and attacks, just like a swarm of goblins would attack a CG merchant.
That's basically what we're wondering now, thanks to Avena's observation that escalation should roll up the opposition from a monster table like any good GM.
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Goblin Squad Member
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That was the Neutral PvP 'traveller' flag.
There is also a fast travel option if you have already been to your destination. It allows the player character to move much faster than normal walking or trotting such as you are confined to when first exploring the route.
Teamsters who don't use the neutral Traveler PvP flag then would fast travel to make their delivery. Hoever bandits in their hideouts can trigger a SAD (Stand and Deliver) that effectivly knocks the merchant/teamster out of fast travel, allowing the bandits to make their ultimatum to either pay up or get rolled.
Oh ok, thanks!
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Goblin Squad Member
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I thought it was more...
1.Bandit builds hideout and turns on ambush mode.
2.Merchant comes in range (no word if whole hex or part of hex) and gets pulled out of fast travel. Oh doesn't have to be merchant can be 20 pissed off Hellknights.
3.The merchants or Hell knights then know that a bandit camp is up and can try to get away or find bandits. Bandits don't know the exact location and will need skills like tracking to find quicker.
4.Bandits need to get within I bet bow range to deliver the SAD.
Did I read the earlier blogs wrong? The SAD mech doesn't seem like it's part of a hideout as Bandits should be able to to it even if they don't have one. It seems more tied to the Outlaw flag.
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I don't see why alignment of mobs vs. alignment of players would make a difference. Will there be good mobs in escalation?
...Well that is really the question I think. If you are, say, a CE merchant trying to make a delivery of new shortswords to a distant CE town in dire need of weaponry and you cross a hex where CE Goblins are swarming they likely wouldn't bother you would they? Or would they? Maybe.
For the sake of the argument lets say they might not bother you.
However if LG commoners escalate too, lets say yoour CE players haven't been thinning them out, what if those escalating commoners spawn a militia?
So there you are running along with your load of short swords and this escalated militia pops you out of fast travel and attacks, just like a swarm of goblins would attack a CG merchant.
That's basically what we're wondering now, thanks to Avena's observation that escalation should roll up the opposition from a monster table like any good GM.
You know, that would really change the dynamic of many players. I approve actually, not that that matters a bit :p
I really do like escalation mobs having this ability. I think it'll really add to gameplay.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I thought it was more...
1.Bandit builds hideout and turns on ambush mode.
2.Merchant comes in range (no word if whole hex or part of hex) and gets pulled out of fast travel. Oh doesn't have to be merchant can be 20 pissed off Hellknights.
3.The merchants or Hell knights then know that a bandit camp is up and can try to get away or find bandits. Bandits don't know the exact location and will need skills like tracking to find quicker.
4.Bandits need to get within I bet bow range to deliver the SAD.Did I read the earlier blogs wrong? The SAD mech doesn't seem like it's part of a hideout as Bandits should be able to to it even if they don't have one. It seems more tied to the Outlaw flag.
I'm running with the impression that I saw something that the bandit gets a chance to see what the opposition is before triggering the SAD. If he is quick he can trigger the SAD or not. So if he saw it was 20 sour looking hellknights with heartburn he'd likely not snap the trap shut on them, but if it is a rolly-polly merchant with scant escort then sure: pull the rope taut and trip him up.
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Goblin Squad Member
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So does this mean as an evil guy I might want to keep my goblin servants roaming my hex in hordes as a first line of defense against do-gooders, as they are "firendly" towards me? But I would have to kill off Do-gooder NPCs so they dont escalate into a kill-th-bad-guys war party? O.O
Also, Im curious to know what all a bandit hideout can do?
Are hideouts the bandit equivalent of a settlement or are they just a base?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Since it has been said that alignment is going to be difficult to discern, I don't see why said goblins would hesitate to attack a CE human traveler any longer than they would a LG one. To hungry, waylaying goblins, you're equally tasty regardless of your morals or political views.
As for NPCs and players being able to pull you out of fast movement, I think this is a must. Personally, I would rather such movement modes didn't exist, but I know most players may not find the act of traveling from place to place as entertaining as I do. Since fast movement is supposed to represent a warping of game time more than some mystical haste spell cast on you and your beasts, it should not stop potential interaction that would surely happen if you were walking at regular speed. The only way for that to happen is to allow for NPCs and players to be able to intercept you as you whiz by. This might seem like it lends itself to griefing, but if you were traveling at normal speed, you would have to deal with those potential griefers anyway. Of course, you wouldn't learn their true intent unless you stopped and interacted with them, now would you?
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Goblin Squad Member
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So does this mean as an evil guy I might want to keep my goblin servants roaming my hex in hordes as a first line of defense against do-gooders, as they are "firendly" towards me? But I would have to kill off Do-gooder NPCs so they dont escalate into a kill-th-bad-guys war party? O.O
Also, Im curious to know what all a bandit hideout can do?
Are hideouts the bandit equivalent of a settlement or are they just a base?
I agree with Hobs on the goblins attacking you.
I wonder on the hidout myself. If it's a type of settlement then war can be declared. The "do-gooders" or maybe the LE settlement that is sick of bandits cutting their profits can declare war and destroy the hideout.
In Eve it is possible to force wars on Corps even if they are passive. I don't see it being any different here. Remember that while in a war the PvP flags get turned on for everyone and no alignment shifts or loss of reputation.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@ Ludy
Hideouts—These are the simplest constructs. Hideouts are used by bandits to waylay explorers and others who impinge on their areas of operation. Hideouts normally cannot be found once constructed, although the potential exists for certain types of characters to learn how to find them. Hideouts have limited storage, and they allow characters to be logged out of the game safely. Hideouts have a "threat radius" that determines how they interact with their surroundings: when a character using fast travel enters the threat radius of a hideout, the characters in the hideout can trigger an ambush—the targets drop out of fast travel in the vicinity of the hideout, and the bandits may be able to overtake them and engage them in melee combat before they can exit the area and re-enter fast travel.
Advancing a hideout can make it harder to locate, increase its local storage, increase its threat radius, and allow the hideout's occupants to determine the nature of passing characters and their gear before triggering an ambush.
Hideouts can be destroyed by individuals. If a hideout is destroyed, any objects in its local storage are destroyed as well.