Goblinworks Executive Founder
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I'm not one for starting threads but this one has been kinda itching at the back of my brain for a while. I've been wondering what people think about character titles much like rift where you can have both prefix and suffix titles.
I personally think it adds to character immersion when you can say not only am a Lord of keep but I also have Lord at the front of my name.
Goblin Squad Member
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This would be cool if some titles would be connected to guild leaders for settlements and nations, leaders of settlements would be lords, ladys or barons and leaders of the nation kings, queens, minister etc. :)
This is too funny to not comment on... a fortified settlement is not a nation and if you want to call yourself a Lord, Lady or Baron of said settlement so be it but don't expect me to go along with it.
Never thought that people wanted titles this badly but I guess that I was wrong. :D
IIRC there were the possibilities for titles mentioned as part of a upper scale Kickstarter package.
For some RPers, actually earning a title like "Sir" is a neat reward. Earning a last name in EQ was a big deal and a mark of distinction in the beginning. (Also marrying and having the same last name was kinda cool.) And many guilds have titular names for ranks within the guild. ("Brother, Sargeant-Major, Dark Knight, etc.") I can even see unlocking titles (as has been done in other games) being neat, so that "...of Doom" might be something you unlock after 500 PvP kills.
So I can see how this would be a positive feature in some instances, Aeioun. OTOH, I am kinda against long floaty names, and titles that don't have any meaning. And gotta have a switch so anyone can turn em off if they don't want em,ie I can turn yours off if I don't want em and you can turn yours off if you don't want folks to see it.
It would be better if they were restricted to a small number of players, like the example of guild leaders or settlement leaders.
Adding in minor achievements that award titles is going to result in every player running around with a title, and most (if not all) of them being so common that they lose any relevancy.
Maybe titles that require 1/2/3/etc years of training or something to give long-term players a reward for their time played. It would prevent players from gaming the system - which always happens. Players look up how to get a title they want, then go out and do that thing that awards it. Not because they wanted to do that thing that was worthy of recognition, but because they just wanted their vanity title.
I actually like the years worth of training idea. Have 1 year spent training unlock the ability to chose for your character 1 prefix or suffix out of a pool of 50-100 titles that can only be earned in this way. Few players would have the titles, and those who did would vary from player to player. I think after a year, people might like to chose a title that best reflects how they've spent their time in the game. It would actually mean something to that player as opposed to the person who cooked 10 rat meat and got the journeyman chef title.
i can definitly see how title can loose their luster but have the title for x years/months work sounds like an equal kiler.
This goes back to my point about there being players who say "tell me what I have to do and I'll go do it". Rather than being a reward for having genuinely done something worthy of recognition. It's not x years of work to get a title. It's x years of playing the game to be rewarded with a title.
By nature, MMORPGs (traditionally, anyway) were about the journey, not the end destination. Those who only want the end goal become bogged down by the "grind" it takes to reach it. They also usually hold a negative view towards that "grind", no matter what it is. If someone feels that a year's investment is unreasonable for a cosmetic reward; that's a legitimate complaint... but that doesn't mean I'm going to design a game with that type of player in mind - There's already a company that does that in spades, and countless others since that have copied that design ideology.
Luckily for everyone here, I'm not an employee of GW, so you just might get all the titles you want after jumping through your hoops to get them!
/confetti
=p
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Goblin Squad Member
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This would be cool if some titles would be connected to guild leaders for settlements and nations, leaders of settlements would be lords, ladys or barons and leaders of the nation kings, queens, minister etc. :)This is too funny to not comment on... a fortified settlement is not a nation and if you want to call yourself a Lord, Lady or Baron of said settlement so be it but don't expect me to go along with it.
Never thought that people wanted titles this badly but I guess that I was wrong. :D
My point was that titles, as the name suggests, should be connected to the ongoing happenings in the game world and not just achievement titles which are imo lame.
Lord of the castle, lord of the tower? Doesn't sound good to you, strange.
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Goblin Squad Member
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This would be cool if some titles would be connected to guild leaders for settlements and nations, leaders of settlements would be lords, ladys or barons and leaders of the nation kings, queens, minister etc. :)This is too funny to not comment on... a fortified settlement is not a nation and if you want to call yourself a Lord, Lady or Baron of said settlement so be it but don't expect me to go along with it.
Never thought that people wanted titles this badly but I guess that I was wrong. :D
Hardly.
The ruler of Thornkeep is nothing but a castle and a town around it, and HE gets to call himself a Baron.We're in the wild unclaimed. If you own land and troops you can call yourself whatever you want, that's kind of the point.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I don't see a problem in settler leaders getting a title such as Mayor, Alcaide or something like that. But, for exmple, company leaders may not or we will see thousands of charted comapanies of 1 or few being created by players who just want a "Chief" or "Lord" or whatever title before their names.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I don't see a problem in settler leaders getting a title such as Mayor, Alcaide or something like that. But, for exmple, company leaders may not or we will see thousands of charted comapanies of 1 or few being created by players who just want a "Chief" or "Lord" or whatever title before their names.
Having such a title could also mean a PVP death penalty. That would bring immersion and the need for bodyguards. :)
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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This would be cool if some titles would be connected to guild leaders for settlements and nations, leaders of settlements would be lords, ladys or barons and leaders of the nation kings, queens, minister etc. :)This is too funny to not comment on... a fortified settlement is not a nation and if you want to call yourself a Lord, Lady or Baron of said settlement so be it but don't expect me to go along with it.
Never thought that people wanted titles this badly but I guess that I was wrong. :D
Hardly.
The ruler of Thornkeep is nothing but a castle and a town around it, and HE gets to call himself a Baron.We're in the wild unclaimed. If you own land and troops you can call yourself whatever you want, that's kind of the point.
True and as I recall in the blog they talk about people not only making settlements but enough settlements banning together to form kingdoms and nations with different types of governments.. Different government styles should also have different titles. I mean think about it. Why would the leader of a democratic government call them selves a king or a queen?
I don't see a problem in settler leaders getting a title such as Mayor, Alcaide or something like that. But, for exmple, company leaders may not or we will see thousands of charted comapanies of 1 or few being created by players who just want a "Chief" or "Lord" or whatever title before their names.Having such a title could also mean a PVP death penalty. That would bring immersion and the need for bodyguards. :)
Such is the way things are in real life. In a combat zone its pretty much common sense to keep a low profile on who is where in the command structure. Hence why in the US Marines you don't salute officers in combat zones, and the queen of England doesn't go prancing around hostile anti-colonial nations. lol
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Goblin Squad Member
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There are landless nobles, the titles earned (sometimes) for loyalty or performing well. The title is given as a reward for those deeds.
Unless of course the person in charge just allows people to buy titles or gives them away willy nilly.
I would like to see a system where titles can be given. So if you are the King of a Nation, you can give out all sorts of titles, Duke, baron, lord, knightly titles..etc.
If say you were the head of a settlement and you were a Baron you could give out Lord or knight people.
I think it would be nice if besides titles you could join a knightly order. These could be established by either a nation or settlement (how many depends on size, so a settlement would only be able to support one, or a nation could have many). Having an order would require upkeep and such, but would be a fun RP thing to have.
Most Holy Order of the Knights of Smiting - Induction given to those to have performed great deeds in the name of good
Most Holy order of the Knights of Making Nice things - Induction given to those who support the Nation through economic means and see its army equipped.
Most Holy Order of the Knights of Moving Things Around - induction given to those merchants who brave the wilds to constantly transport rare goods.
You would get a title, maybe the ability to wear a shield or tabard with some heraldry. Access to a fancy formal RP suit of armor or noble clothes.
I would like to see titles, but I would like to see them be extremely rare and an actual achievement to have one.
Depending on how involved in the game the GW DMs are upon release, perhaps they could only be awarded by them, or perhaps there are only a certain number of them that are awarded for holding certain positions (for instance, if you have a Nation (important: not just a settlement) that is a Monarchy, ONLY the leader could select from a list of monarchical titles (King, Queen, Emperor, High Priest, Pharaoh, Reagent, etc.) to show their position).
I would love to also see extremely involved titles whose chains are hidden. Eventually, given trial and error, players might figure out what they did to receive a title, but I don't think they should be a carrot on a string...
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Goblin Squad Member
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Have we sorted out the 'Dame'/'Lady' issue yet?
It has been requested a few times that the title be 'Lady' and not 'Dame', but 'Dame' still appears on the Add-On list descriptors. Having bought a couple of Regional Trait packs, this is now something that will affect me directly.
My female paladin is intended to be in the Arthurian mould. 'Lady Elaine' is genre-appropriate for an Arthurian noble, 'Dame Elaine' sounds like an opera singer.
Or will we have the option to use whatever title we fancy (subject to Moderator revision)?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Having Titles earned through play sounds good, except for any Titles earned through grinding. I absolutely hate grinding (which often ruin games for me).
Getting a Title because you killed so and so this many times, cooking 10 rats, or making 500 PvP kills are not real achievements. At least not to me.
Discovering a new recipe, forging an epic item, becoming a 'King/Queen' of a Nation are real achievements.
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Goblin Squad Member
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In Ultima Online you had to spend a lot of time to get a Lord or Lady title. When you saw someone with it you were in awe and spent much time looking at how that person dressed and the spells they used. They were badass and you wanted to be them. I hope Pathfinder Online emphasis the importance of titles and makes earn them (really earn them).
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Goblin Squad Member
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As GS members we are the 'established' heroes of the land for when the OE crowd begins. It is therefore consistent with that 'living world' concept that some of us are already entitled, have established guilds, settlements and so on.
I do agree that titles ought to be earned in most cases, but already having a scattering of them at OE adds verisimilitude to the world that new players are suddenly immersed in. Apart from anything else, it gives new players something to look at and decide to aim for.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Back to the OP, I think it would be very disappointing to not have both Prefix and Suffix titles at the same time. Imagine choosing Regional Trait (which comes with title) and Honorable Title in the Kickstarter or current store.
Imagine a Joran Cooper carrying the title of knight as he ventures out from his homeland in Andoran (sp?) to attend some endeavor to aid Eagle Knights in the River Kingdoms.
He could be Joran Cooper of Andoran (assumption of regional title is something basic like this). Or Sir Joran Cooper. But Sir Joran Cooper of Andoran would seem much more cool to me.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Have we sorted out the 'Dame'/'Lady' issue yet?
It has been requested a few times that the title be 'Lady' and not 'Dame', but 'Dame' still appears on the Add-On list descriptors. Having bought a couple of Regional Trait packs, this is now something that will affect me directly.
My female paladin is intended to be in the Arthurian mould. 'Lady Elaine' is genre-appropriate for an Arthurian noble, 'Dame Elaine' sounds like an opera singer.
Or will we have the option to use whatever title we fancy (subject to Moderator revision)?
British tradition gives us Sir/Dame as the titles you address a Knight. Lord/Lady are higher ranking nobles. That said, I need the Lady title for my character as well.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Maybe GW can monetize this and sell us (for the low, low price of $10!) the ability to apply a second title. That said, I like the idea of landed titles being a thing: "Duke <Charname> of Brighthaven" or the like.
Could we maybe reduce trying to ruin the game (for me at least) by suggesting more and more stuff to nickel and dime us on that could easily be central features. :(
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Goblin Squad Member
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Maybe GW can monetize this and sell us (for the low, low price of $10!) the ability to apply a second title. That said, I like the idea of landed titles being a thing: "Duke <Charname> of Brighthaven" or the like.Could we maybe reduce trying to ruin the game (for me at least) by suggesting more and more stuff to nickel and dime us on that could easily be central features. :(
It's a niche feature. Would you rather have it purchasable by the few that want it, or have it not included at all? I'm just saying my preference here. . . .
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Goblin Squad Member
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It's a niche feature. Would you rather have it purchasable by the few that want it, or have it not included at all? I'm just saying my preference here. . . .Maybe GW can monetize this and sell us (for the low, low price of $10!) the ability to apply a second title. That said, I like the idea of landed titles being a thing: "Duke <Charname> of Brighthaven" or the like.Could we maybe reduce trying to ruin the game (for me at least) by suggesting more and more stuff to nickel and dime us on that could easily be central features. :(
Actually... probably not included at all. I tend to be a purist though. I like my subscriptions all-encompassing. Heavily loaded cash shops tend to drive me away from games. I do not view them as options, I view them as things I am not getting for my already substantial monthly fee, making the core product seem cheaper and inferior. I will not claim it is the most logical position, but such is the view I hold.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think having Eve's subscriptionmodel where you pay for your characters xp/skills/progress will and should make out the brunt of their income. If the game is fun and succesfull this should be more then enough to keep expanding the game and earning some good money(as in Eve).
I understand the wish to monetize bling and convenience, however each store-bought vanity-item/horse/potion could be a missed chance for enriching PFO's crafting and Economy.
Unless the items/horses/potions can *also* be crafted/obtained in-game off course. :) I guess there is a balance to be found here.
As for the titles, I hope some will indeed be tied to settlement-positions, and also certain achievements in the game.
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Goblin Squad Member
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If all titles are purchased in the store only... That is bull :I
This is such a large way to enrich in-game experience. By restricting titles from being added at name generation originally you immediately make any titles gained important. By making it paid-to-use you remove that importance. Anyone with a title now is just (that guy has money).
It is unfortunate that I am not going to be able to use "Brother" most likely, but that is the way it is. I don't want to purchase a title, or anything, for something IC.
This is a community, PC-driven, personal effort game and that should be applied to character development as well. If Brother Zael wants to be more than just "Letholdus Zael" then he best be deserving the title he gets.
Besides, he was excommunicated. He isn't a Lord-Brother, or even a normal Brother, anymore.
To me, this is only the true way it should be, for a truly Player-driven world. Anyone with the title "Lord" should have earned that title somehow, and the same applies for all others.
Sorry, GW, but I don't like the monopolization of the ability to gain a title, nor of the attempt to monetize that. I understand why though, and no hard feelings.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I will admit, certain "Ladies" and "Lords" and such could be due to backstory, but that is a premise, and we are all going through as level one in all skills including diplo. For one reason or another you got sent to end of the earth, alone, and you lost any skills you had.
And you were marked by pharasma.
My response, biased and cruel it may be: deal. I am, and so should you.
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Goblin Squad Member
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British tradition gives us Sir/Dame as the titles you address a Knight. Lord/Lady are higher ranking nobles. That said, I need the Lady title for my character as well.
It's a bit more complex than that (inevitably).
'Lady' is and was used as a prefix for the wife (or daughter) of a knight or other noble. 'Dame' is the title given to a woman in her own right.
'Lord' and 'Lady' are both honorific prefixes, but they are also descriptions. A lord or lady is in charge of a holding, so a landed knight is a knight but is a lord, being lord of the manor. A bachelor knight doesn't hold land and is therefore not a lord. The landed knight's tenants will refer to him as their liege lord. His wife and daughters will be 'Lady'. The knight would therefore be Sir Numpty, lord of Numpty Manor.
This carries on all the way up the social ladder, so the king is also lord of (for example) England.
The complexities of the historical British social system are far more complex than I would expect to see modelled in an RPG, but the title 'Lady' rather than 'Dame' is far more accurate in terms of genre and literature. There is a reason that Lindisfarne didn't sing the folk rock hit about the 'Dame Eleanor'.
This is too funny to not comment on... a fortified settlement is not a nation and if you want to call yourself a Lord, Lady or Baron of said settlement so be it but don't expect me to go along with it.
For the record, you're actually kinda wrong here. Lords, Ladies and Barons were very minor nobles and could easily handle settlements. In fact, Lords and Ladies are untitled, so one could argue that even a settlement is a bit much for them. ;D