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I know that the majority of people would rather roleplay a root canal than run a chase scene. However, I think that done well they can be a great part of a scenario. I also flatter myself that I do them well (based on reactions from my players).
I don't put out the card and have people put figs on it - that just feels like a board game. Rather, I keep the card behind the screen in a sheet protector, and mark where each character is, describing the challenge they face.
My biggest issue has always been with the "double move" rule. That's where you can attempt both challenges, and if successful skip the next location entirely. If you fail one, you advance normally; if you fail both, you become "mired" and have to spend a round doing nothing.
This rule always felt completely artificial, both in the "skip a location" aspect and the "get stuck" aspect, and didn't fit with my cinematic approach. However, I just hit on an idea: the "double move" represents the character trying to find a shortcut. "You think that if you slip through this broken board, and then climb over that fence over there, you might be able to get to the next street faster." If the person succeeds, they get to bypass the next location (possibly without even having seen it, if they are the first character to get there). If they fail once, they realize the shortcut isn't going to work, and just move along. If they fail both, they take the shortcut, but discover it in fact goes the wrong way, and now must spend a turn going back along the path to where they left.
This allows people to make use of the double-move without breaking the feel of the scene, and adds extra RP opportunity as the person who failed gets back. ("Great idea, scout! So glad we have you leading the way!")
Thoughts?
While typing all of that, another thought occurred to me. The chase rules do not say anything about going backwards, but I can see someone advancing past a "climb or escape artist" location into a "bluff or intimidate" location that they can't possibly pass. Could they take a turn going back, and then use the double-move rule to look for a way around the next spot? It seems perfectly reasonable to me, but isn't covered in the mechanics.
I love these so much that I actively seek them out for my GMing portfolio. The ones I know of are
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The shortcut is basically how I've tried to think of that mechanic. It's definitely an opportunity for creativity. I like your take on backtracking to find a shortcut around a difficult obstacle too. I'd never considered that before, and I'll likely suggest that next time I run or run into a chase scene.
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I have played a couple adventures with chase scenes, using the rules, and "root canal" is an apt simile. I tend not to mind them much, because I have a thief with a high dex. Most of my other fellow players, however - would like an alternative system more suitable to their desires. (Call that a translation of their true dialogue! LOL) Not sure what the solution is, btw.
When I get back to my books, I will read through the chase rules again and see what the "shortcut" method would actually do in play. Sounds good on first reading-----ow a to the rules.......
I love running chases too, and I agree, keep the chase "game board" behind the screen, amen! In my opinion laying out the game board and putting figures on it is the worst way to run a chase.
I also run the triple move as a shortcut. In fact there is a certain early adventure path wherein there is a chase scene with slightly different rules and they describe the double and triple moves as a dangerous shortcuts.
One problem that also pops up with chases is that some low-skill characters get stuck and fall out of the race altogether.
I have run chases successfully with this modified set of rules:
- First, as a full round action, any character can advance to the next stage of the chase with no skill check required.
- Next, as a move action, a character can advance to the next stage of the chase with a successful skill check.
- Finally, as a full round action, a character can advance three stages of the chase by making both skill checks with the risk of losing their next turn if they fail both. Otherwise the character only advances one stage of the chase if they fail one of the checks, or they don't advance at all if they fail one of the checks by 5 or more.
These rules are a melding of the official chase rules and those found in that certain adventure path mentioned above.
I'm on the fence about going backwards. It would seem weird to go back and talk your way past the same guards you just spoke to for example; however, as an abstraction it might work for me, given that you are penalizing yourself by spending a move action going backwards, so you basically lose the equivalent of two move actions. One question I have is would you need to redo a skill check for going backwards, such as climbing a wall, or jumping a gap?
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Nosig: There are group things you can do to help the entire party along. My wizard used an extended haste last time which helped the entire party through a chase scene.
But that's an interesting way to think of it; I can see why you think of it that way.
The judge during that particular chase did things that made sense. If there was a secret door, the last person left it open for the rest. If there was something in the way that could be overrun (the alternative was climb over), then that person removed that obstacle for the rest. If there was a locked door, someone who unlocked it let the others passed it.
Your guards example is a situation where it becomes awkward. I would think that the bard would be able to convince people that are in their same card to move along with them, but it does make sense that the guards would be skeptical each time someone tried to pass. I don't really have a good solution to that one with how the chase mechanics currently work.
While I don't know the specifics of the chase rules, this still made it feel more like a team effort. My character, the one who cast haste, actually was the last person to make it out (actually, haste wore off before he could escape and ended up getting permanently stuck, haha). For me, that really felt like team effort, as I didn't even participate in the resulting combat yet was vital to the success of the chase as well as my teammates who actually made it to *redacted* and were able to finish the mission.
But this really heavily depends on your judge. I just know that the last chase scene I did, I felt that it was appropriately placed and the entire party had a blast doing it.
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I hate the way the chase mechanics work. I would avoid scenarios if there were warning labels that said "this adventure uses the chase mechanics". Really.
Let me be the first to say: The chase rules are great, as long as you ignore the chase rules!
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I hate the way the chase mechanics work. I would avoid scenarios if there were warning labels that said "this adventure uses the chase mechanics". Really.Let me be the first to say: The chase rules are great, as long as you ignore the chase rules!
Depends on how the GM ignores the chase rules. Someday, I would like to play the Midnight Mauler just to see how the chase scene is supposed to work.
IMO, and as I told the GM at the time, his variant really sucked. It was even less fun than any of the other chase scenes I have played in.
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I like chases. I think they should stay in 3-7 territory.
Round 1 of a 10-11 chase ended during the first characters initiative.
During a home game in a Skulls and Shackles game a Rogue got away during a chase. The players were caught unaware and didn't enter the chase quickly.
Of course a horse stood in their way, got burned with a spell and started fighting back.
Chases should be fun and unexpected.
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When I played Midnight Mauler, we knew what the final destination of the chase was, so our witch just skipped the whole thing and flew OVER the entire chase to get there. One slumber hex later, and the entire adventure was over.
Isn't that how slumber hex is with anything that is one bbeg that can be slept anyway, though?
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Isn't that how slumber hex is with anything that is one bbeg that can be slept anyway, though?When I played Midnight Mauler, we knew what the final destination of the chase was, so our witch just skipped the whole thing and flew OVER the entire chase to get there. One slumber hex later, and the entire adventure was over.
Nah - tough BBEGs usually make the save. :P
Don't get me wrong, it was cool that the witch was able to dominate this one. The player is a friend of mine, so it's nice to see his character shine sometimes. I've seen bad guys successfully save so many times on his "save or lose" spells that it's nice to see them work sometimes.
The chase mechanic seemed so lame to our group (who had never seen it before that session), and the one character's dominance by avoiding it altogether made it seem even worse. And that was an extra long chase, which my cleric just couldn't get past due to clerics just generally having lousy skills, combined with armor check penalties on the physical ones.
The message from that scenario seemed to be that chase scenes exist to make flying characters shine and send players of armored, low skill characters (fighters, paladins, clerics) for a bathroom break, since there's no point in bothering to sit at the table with that type of character in a chase scene, anyway.
Put me in the "I wish scenarios with chase scenes had a warning label so I could avoid them more easily" camp.
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In all the games I have seen with chases, not once do we end up with the "hazard" that can be passed by one of your teammates. The Bard in the party can get past the guards - but cannot talk them into letting the rest of the party by. The Rogue can bypass the lock on the gate - but it's locked for the next PC. Can the first guy to the barbed wire fall on it, so everyone else can run over him? No. You're running the course by yourself.
Yes - I know the judge can "modify" the adventure, and that good judges will. But, quite honestly, not all judges are good. Some (like me) are only average. We try to run it as written, so that we don't cheapen the experience for the entire community. The mechanics do not allow for that - where the game we play now (that would be PF) do. RPGs are group games, games that foster the concept of "the party", a "team of heros" or just "a fellowship". The chase mechanics ... just don't.
Is there anything in the chase scene rules that says that characters can't use aid another? If Character A gets stuck on a hazard, can't they just stay there and help everyone else get through?
In one chase scene, my heavily-armored, negative climb check fighter just stayed at the bottom of a high wall and boosted all the other characters over. After several rounds of aid another, she went the long way around the wall and caught up with the others at the end of the chase.
My biggest issue with chase scenes is that they aren't always well-integrated into the scenario, and they don't make logical sense. You end up with a lot of "You can't go the other way, well, just because" or "Sorry, that doesn't work. That doesn't work either."
Often, when the flow of action starts to seem stilted or unnatural, or when the characters' clever plans suddenly stop having any beneficial results, I start to suspect there's a chase scene behind the screen. It's entirely possible that I end up blaming non-existent chase scenes when a section of the scenario is a little off, though.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, Contributor
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Rather, I keep the card behind the screen in a sheet protector, and mark where each character is, describing the challenge they face.
I completely agree. Chases are often boiled down to "Acrobatics check or Climb check" and people ignore what the challenge really is. Usually I just describe whats ahead of them and let the players describe how they bypass it. Often what they come up with makes more sense than whats on the cards. The tricky bit is assigning a DC on the fly.
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I had one guy in our group who literally couldn't get past a tea party. (Kept missing the roll by POINTS) so he asked 'Could I color spray a way through?"
I thought about it.. said 'sure' and he caught HELL from the Paracountess later. He nearly drown in the next area though. :D
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I had one guy in our group who literally couldn't get past a tea party. (Kept missing the roll by POINTS) so he asked 'Could I color spray a way through?"
I thought about it.. said 'sure' and he caught HELL from the Paracountess later. He nearly drown in the next area though. :D
Heh - I know exactly which scene that is. Was he actually Chelaxian?
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Heh - I know exactly which scene that is. Was he actually Chelaxian?I had one guy in our group who literally couldn't get past a tea party. (Kept missing the roll by POINTS) so he asked 'Could I color spray a way through?"
I thought about it.. said 'sure' and he caught HELL from the Paracountess later. He nearly drown in the next area though. :D
Actually..no. I can't recall which faction. He REALLY was feeling a bit frustrated at that point. The 'tea party' was the last straw..and nearly cried when he couldn't cross the wading pool.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, Contributor
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Actually..no. I can't recall which faction. He REALLY was feeling a bit frustrated at that point. The 'tea party' was the last straw..and nearly cried when he couldn't cross the wading pool.Heh - I know exactly which scene that is. Was he actually Chelaxian?I had one guy in our group who literally couldn't get past a tea party. (Kept missing the roll by POINTS) so he asked 'Could I color spray a way through?"
I thought about it.. said 'sure' and he caught HELL from the Paracountess later. He nearly drown in the next area though. :D
Wait a minute....
Heck, almost every one of the cards in that chase has one DC 10 - 15 option. The Diplomacy check for the Paracountess is DC 13.
I do think it's awesome using color spray on a bunch of Chelaxians having tea though :D
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Actually..no. I can't recall which faction. He REALLY was feeling a bit frustrated at that point. The 'tea party' was the last straw..and nearly cried when he couldn't cross the wading pool.Heh - I know exactly which scene that is. Was he actually Chelaxian?I had one guy in our group who literally couldn't get past a tea party. (Kept missing the roll by POINTS) so he asked 'Could I color spray a way through?"
I thought about it.. said 'sure' and he caught HELL from the Paracountess later. He nearly drown in the next area though. :D
Wait a minute....
** spoiler omitted **
I do think it's awesome using color spray on a bunch of Chelaxians having tea though :D
There were a LOT of bad rolls being made by all that day. It was turning into a comedy of errors.
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Garbage in garbage out. What I am trying to say is that the chase may be designed by the author to let the bad guy get away, or very tough for the party to keep up. This is frustrating, but perhaps, we have to rely on the abilities of the scenario designer to have a chase that makes sense from her perspective; not necessarily ours.
I just watched SKYFALL for the first time - lots of chases - even the great Bond, James Bond, doesn't get the bad guy when the story calls for it.
A chase is inherently a function of dex anyway. Any character with a good dex will have the advantage. Hence, there are times the heavily armored fighter shines, there are times when he spellcaster casts he perfect spell, why not a chance for my rogue to shine?
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Wait a minute....
** comment about DCs omitted **
How would the player know what the DC would be?
I just watched SKYFALL for the first time - lots of chases - even the great Bond, James Bond, doesn't get the bad guy when the story calls for it.
If I saw a James Bond movie where James Bond spends ten minutes trying to climb over the same wall, I'd probably ask for my money back. :-)
Venture-Lieutenant, South Dakota—Rapid City
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Biggest issue I have with most chases in PFS is the lack of scaling DC's; I think it's kept at a weird middle ground between both tiers so the low tier is usually hosed.
Rise of the Goblin Guild is the best done out of all the chases I've experienced due to the difference in how the chasee works in tiers and overall better balance in the DC's. It also helps that the chasee only goes one card at a time, but that's balanced by the fact that the chase is fairly short compared to others.
The best advice I can provide is to allow creative ideas and have players support each other. Aiding each other is a solid options, as well as doing an action that could benefit others outside of passing the DC's (had one player, after using a Disable Device to unlock a gate, said he left the gate open, so I allowed all of the other players to move through that square without needing a standard action).
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, Contributor
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How would the player know what the DC would be?Wait a minute....
** comment about DCs omitted **
Do you tell your players the armor class of all the creatures they encounter too?
The GM is supposed to be the players eyes and ears. "It's a tall fence without many handholds", "Looks like an easy swim", "There's a trellis with lots of ivy, looks like a cinch to climb", etc. etc.
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I think Dennis is right. The chases I have played in were run like roll playing. Dennis is suggesting Role Playing the chase and making the mechanics secondary to the flow of the story.
I read through the chase rules last night. They are very straight forward. I think that they become complex only when someone tries to make more of them than they are. A set of encounters, cards, which one has to roll through to succeed or fail.
You folks who have expressed a lack of fondness for chase mechanic, plz state whether or not the GM ran through the mechanics as a set of die rolls, or in a more storyteller fashion. Not certain I am making my point - but I am looking for style results here....Making sense?
Do you tell your players the armor class of all the creatures they encounter too?How would the player know what the DC would be?Wait a minute....
** comment about DCs omitted **
No, so sometimes they're unpleasantly surprised by how difficult it is to hit an enemy.
I can't tell if you're agreeing with my point or not!
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Isn't that how slumber hex is with anything that is one bbeg that can be slept anyway, though?When I played Midnight Mauler, we knew what the final destination of the chase was, so our witch just skipped the whole thing and flew OVER the entire chase to get there. One slumber hex later, and the entire adventure was over.
... And that was an extra long chase, which my cleric just couldn't get past due to clerics just generally having lousy skills, combined with armor check penalties on the physical ones.
The message from that scenario seemed to be that chase scenes exist to make flying characters shine and send players of armored, low skill characters (fighters, paladins, clerics) for a bathroom break, since there's no point in bothering to sit at the table with that type of character in a chase scene, anyway.
A chase is a different beast. Imagine an episode of Cops where the police was chasing the "crack-head" the cop is wearing a tower shield and full plate. That would be fun to watch, I bet the "crack-head" would get away.
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Thoughts?
I spiced the chase scene mechanic up a bit in one of my homebrew games by using it as an escape instead.
And not from someone pursuing them, but rather the dungeon itself as it collapsed in on itself! It was pretty epic, I have to say.
The best part was that each card in the chase was one of the rooms of the dungeon the players had previously adventured through, so in effect they were rapidly moving backwards up and out of the cavern. This allowed for all kinds of fun stuff, like adding additional skill checks on each card for some situation that was or wasn't resolved the first time they went through that room.
I started the party on the first card, then once the first person reached the third card (there were ten cards, total), I put the "collapse" on the board. Each round of the chase, the collapse had a 50% chance of removing the next room from the chase. Any players left on that card were killed.
This was at the very end of a one-shot adventure, so even though one player didn't make it out, everyone agreed that it was a lot of fun and really exciting.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, Contributor
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I have a face character with a +30 bluff, and another non-face character with a bluff of -4. Both are the same level. If the judge looks down at the DC and sees Bluff DC 25 - what's he going to tell me?
Somewhere I saw a guide to skill DCs, I can't recall where.
DCs are not based on your character, they are based on the base difficulty of the thing. How good your character does not change the nature of the challenge.
DC 10 is easy, anyone can do it. DC 20 is something untrained people struggle with and people who are particularly bad at it can never hope to accomplish it. DC 25 is "Expert territory", something only really skilled characters can regularly pull off. DC 30 is something most experts won't be able to accomplish regularly. DC 35 is nearly super-human.
I'd flip that around... is it even reasonable for you to know based on looking at someone how difficult it is to fool them? Maybe... "He's a mouth-breather" or "There is a village somewhere missing their idiot and you've found him". But under any reasonable, rational world could you look at two people and say "He's a DC 18 sense motive, she's clearly a DC 19". It's just silly.
Dennis, it occurs to me that I was unnecessarily cryptic in my comment above.
In my experience, people who do a lot of GMing occasionally have a blind spot when it comes to encounter difficulty because they get to see the "correct" solution immediately.
For instance, I remember a thread where a GM was saying that a bad guy with a very high AC (e.g. "only hit on a 20" class) shouldn't be a difficult opponent because you could throw tanglefoot bags at him, or you could grapple him, or etc., etc. But if a player doesn't know that in advance, then his PC is likely to spend one or two rounds trying the ineffective method first, and one or two rounds in a game where fights rarely last four or five rounds is a big deal!
So when I see a comment like "How come he couldn't make a Swim check with DC X?", to me that sounds like a GM talking. As a player, maybe he thought the DC was lower than it actually was and he spent a few rounds trying and failing (due to armour check penalty or whatever). Or maybe he thought the DC was higher than it actually was and he ruled it out as a possibility in favour of another approach. But at any rate, that situation doesn't strike me as surprising at all!
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, Contributor
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When you use DCs, you are speaking in game terms, the DC becomes the obstacle; you aren't even roll playing, you are playing a crude board game. You might as well be playing a game of Sorry, it's supremely gamist.
When you are descriptive, you are describing a challenge *and you can let the players choose the best way to overcome that challenge*. They are more likely to engage their brain to come up with a solution rather than feel constrained to the choices the author of the scenario thought were most appropriate at the time. In other words, its more immersive and the chances a player will come up with a solution that works for their character are much greater.
Of course if you build a character that can't walk and chew gum at the same time outside of combat then he's still likely to get stumped.
By the way, "DC 10 is easy," only works if you can take 10.
DC 10 means the average person can take 10 and do it. If you are particularly bad at something that doesn't mean it's any tougher, it means you are particularly bad. A player knows his character is particularly bad or good at something. Even if I say "it's easy", the player knows they have a handicap to overcome. Players aren't daft*.
@Hogarth - I was just a little surprised because that DC was deliberately set pretty low because I know few people train swim. I know dice hate some players and all that.
You're still thinking in "GM-land"; ie., "We set the DC low so that people would try it."
My point is that, without any inside information about DCs, people will steer away from using their weak skills. So deliberately setting a low DC will do nothing to encourage a PC to try unless you set up a big neon flashing light saying "seriously, even a child can do this" and even that doesn't help unless it's clear what DC "even a child can do this" corresponds to.
The only way PCs can get unbiased information on what a particular skill check is, is to try it and possibly fail. And in a game where spending one or two rounds trying and failing is possibly a huge setback, there's not much incentive to do that.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, Contributor
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You're still thinking in "GM-land"; ie., "We set the DC low so that people would try it."
My point is that, without any inside information about DCs, people will steer away from using their weak skills.
....The only way PCs can get unbiased information on what a particular skill check is, is to try it and possibly fail. And in a game where spending one or two rounds trying and failing is possibly a huge setback, there's not much incentive to do that.
This makes no sense to me.
The GM is the players eyes and ears. That is one of the GM's primary roles. If something is before the character that is inherently obvious, it's your responsibility to express that in some way that the player understands.
If you are chasing someone and you come around a corner and theres a swimming pool, do you need to attempt to swim across it before you understand how hard it is to cross? Most of us have done enough swimming to know if we can swim across a simple pool or pond. If you are weighed down with 80 pounds of armor, it's pretty obvious that it's going to be hard.
Why should the game be any different?
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, Contributor
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"We set the DC low so that people would try it." but don't tell the players what that DC is.
I suggested not expressing DCs. I did not say anything about setting DCs so people would try something.
Checking the 4 main Iconic characters... the only one that can make this 12 DC more that 50% of the time is Valeros (he needs a 9 to get a 12), the other three need to roll higher (Merisiel needs an 11, Ezra and Kyra both need 12s.) This means, on the DC that was set low, the average character fails most of the time. It's worse than a coin flip! But don't tell them, we want them to try it? And we wonder why the average player hates Chases?
The iconics aren't good at something? *Shocking*
My players are gamers - mostly. They speak "gamer speak", so when I talk to them I want to speak in a language they understand. If I tell Player A: "This is an easy task - the water is just a reflecting pool and should be an easy swim." The experienced player will translate that to ("Calm Water, swim DC10"), the beginner will say "I jump in". In both cases I've done them a disservice. And both used that "Bad advice" to make the wrong choice. The DC for this is 12 - which is 40% of the way to Rough Water (DC15) - so the experienced...
Do you do them a disservice when you don't tell them the AC of a monster? Should I start telling them hit points on a creature too? Maybe just a flash card with a creature's stats so I don't have to even tell them if they've hit or bypassed SR?
This makes no sense to me.
The GM is the players eyes and ears. That is one of the GM's primary roles. If something is before the character that is inherently obvious, it's your responsibility to express that in some way that the player understands.
But you just illustrated my (and nosig's) point by suggesting that DC 12 is easy to make and is presumably appropriate for a "wading pool" (as Thomas Graham called it -- I assume that's an exaggeration), when in fact it's almost at the DC level for swimming in rough water.
Does that mean that a GM failed in his responsibility if he used the term "easy"? Not really; it's just that terms like "easy" or "hard" are mushy enough that they could legitimately indicate a fairly wide range of DCs.
Perhaps a DC 5 should be described as easy, and a DC 10 described as average. In fact that is the way they are described in the Player's Handbook (p. 64). If you are playing a weak or armored character you should probably not consider them an average swimmer or acrobat.
I have run the "God's Market Gamble" several times. It is one of my favorite scenarios, but perhaps some of the DCs in the chase are set too high. It occurs to me that setting DCs lower for chase scenes in future scenarios would perhaps put more emphasis on luck and give low-skill characters a chance to participate more fully in the chase.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, Contributor
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But you just illustrated my (and nosig's) point by suggesting that DC 12 is easy to make and is presumably appropriate for a "wading pool" (as Thomas Graham called it -- I assume that's an exaggeration), when in fact it's almost at the DC level for swimming in rough water.This makes no sense to me.
The GM is the players eyes and ears. That is one of the GM's primary roles. If something is before the character that is inherently obvious, it's your responsibility to express that in some way that the player understands.
Again, do you give ACs out? Hit points? Do you tell people what the DC is of a trap they are disabling is? Do you tell them the DC of the strength check is to burst open a stuck door? What the hardness and hit points are of the door? When you encounter a person do you tell them what his Charisma and Wisdom modifier is so they can know which social skills might work best?
Nearly everywhere in the game *except* apparently chase scenes, you do not share DCs.
Why?
Again, do you give ACs out? Hit points? Do you tell people what the DC is of a trap they are disabling is? Do you tell them the DC of the strength check is to burst open a stuck door? What the hardness and hit points are of the door? When you encounter a person do you tell them what his Charisma and Wisdom modifier is so they can know which social skills might work best?
Nearly everywhere in the game *except* apparently chase scenes, you do not share DCs.
Why?
I'm totally confused by your response.
Sometimes I give out DCs (e.g. "make a DC 15 Perception check"), and sometimes I don't. I'm not sure what that has to do with anything.
My point is this: If a GM (me or anyone else, it doesn't matter) says something is "easy" or "hard", a player (me or anyone else) is well-advised to take that piece of information with a big grain of salt, because "easy" could mean DC 0 or DC 5 or DC 10 or DC 12 or anything in-between (for instance); likewise if a scenario describes what seems like an easy or hard situation (like crossing a wading pool). And the GM should realise this as well, and not be surprised if the players do the "wrong" thing based on that limited information.
I can't tell if you agree with my point or not, since you keep asking whether the GM should explicitly mention DCs or not (an issue I don't feel very strongly about, frankly).
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, Contributor
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@Hogarth - the cards not only tell players specific DC, but they limit them to precisely two actions. That effectively makes the situation more difficult. I had a chase scene where the players had a 'wrought iron fence'. The card choices were "Climb Fence DC 18" "Squeeze through Escape Artist 16".
If you couldn't do either of those, you are screwed. except... if you drop into narrative, it turns out there are a lot of other options.
"You see a wrought iron fence, it looks pretty difficult to climb. You might be able to squeeze between the bars though"
Player: "Screw that, I'm a monk, I jump the fence"
GM: After a bit of head-scratching over jump DCs Ok, it's a DC 28 Acrobatics check
Player: *rolls* "Yes, 30, I fly over it"
Alternately:
Player: "I use strength surge to bend the bars open and go through"
Player: "I use rusting grasp to make a hole in the fence"
Player: "I cast blink and step through it"
Etc etc....
The more a chase scene is like Pathfinder, the more likely players are going to come up with ways to use their characters powers and abilities. When the cards are there, board game mode kicks in and players forget their characters have more than one way to skin a cat. 9 times out of 10 they are going to pick one of the options on the cards even if they have an alternate, better way of overcoming the hazard.
Dennis, I still can't tell if you agree with my point or not! It sounds like you're trying to disagree with me, but I think we're still talking past each other.