Question about electric damage and water

[STARGAZER_DRAGON]

Did pathfinder ever make any Raw way of handling Electricity and water??

If not how do you guys usualy handle it? I mean when a party is in water right next to say a high lvl lightning bolt or other electrical source. I know by book it used to do nothing specialy so we used to house rule it but wondered if pathfinder ever got around to detailing it in the rules.

[Rynjin]

I haven't seen any rules on it.

Personally I'd probably run it as bumping the Reflex DC up by 1-2 points while they're in the water.

[STARGAZER_DRAGON]

Best I can tell based on monsters the damage in the point of origin and adjacent would be full and then half the damage for each additional 5' space from that point

So burst 1 full
Burst 2 half
Burst 3 1/4
Burst 4 1/8

And continues 1/16, 1/32 ect until it runs out of dice fizzling below 1 damage of dice.

[STARGAZER_DRAGON]

Perhaps not allowing a reflex save since there nowhere to run effectively though reflex for half would still work I guess since u can move to the next adjacent space to half it, though prob a +2-4 DC for circumstance. Does that sound about proper??

[Rynjin]

+2-4 DC is kinda harsh but still within the realm of reason I think.

Not allowing a save is nonsense IMO since you can be paralyzed, strapped in chains, in an airtight box with no room to move and still dodge a Fireball in this game. The game's design philosophy was built around "you always get a save".

[STARGAZER_DRAGON]

I personaly think if there no way to avoid the damage or reduce the damage like when u can't move then you should not get a reflex save. I mean as long as you can roll turn around ect then you can move in a fasion to lesson the damage but if you can't move reflex save makes no sence, perhaps a still +10 DC could reflect this just as easily, makes no sence to dodge even a weak fireball when you have the helpless condition

[Kieviel]

Well, what kind of water is it? De-ionized water would actually carry no charge at all and could lower the save ;-)

And be careful, as your PCs could easily start running around with buckets of water to douse their enemies and then let the mage blast with heightened DC lightning bolts until the enemies are just little piles of ash.

Honestly, I would just say that because it is magical electricity that water doesn't affect it and move on rather than make an already complicated game more complicated.

[STARGAZER_DRAGON]

we where thinking more when the object in question was in water least 1' in depth and the bolt struck a adjacent space.

The question came into play last night when the party attacked a lizardman village they needed to remove from the swamp.

The village was surrounded by water and some of the lizardmen swam across to go after the party, the mage cast lightning bolt hitting the water next to some of them, I simply applied a slowly reducing damage.

Was kinda wondering if there was a official ruling on it or not since pathfinder seamed to add in a lot of those type of details. I did also warn them that at least once I would apply the tactic against them and have it work the same way.

[Quantum Steve]

RAW, water has no effect on electricity save that "Some spells might function differently underwater, subject to GM discretion." Which is wonderfully vague.

IRL, water has some pretty odd effects on electricity. Fresh water doesn't actually conduct electricity that well, and even salt water doesn't conduct electricity uniformly. A fish might die from a nearby electrical discharge, but a fish less than 1' away (sometimes one even nearer to the source of the discharge) might be unaffected.

I like the idea of +2 to the DC if you're standing in water (good ol' GM's Best Friend) and I might rule that if used underwater, targets within 5' might have to save (perhaps at -2 DC) or take half damage.

[Tiny Coffee Golem]

Without reading anything but the thread title the answer is "no."

[STARGAZER_DRAGON]

so if they didn't give raw details I kinda liked using the way electric eel and other water based electric creatures attacks work.

Deals X damage 1 spaces away then continues to cut that damage by 50% for each additional space away

so like 8D6 -4D6-2D6-1D6- none and as a GM I think a +2 circumstance penalty to save DC is fare enough

[Gorbacz]

In the next episode, the OP reads falling rules and faints.

That or he realizes that there are no plausible rules regarding fireballs setting things on fire.

[STARGAZER_DRAGON]

the rules for magical instant fire spells setting stuff on fire are in rules stating that instant fire damage is only a flash lacking sustained heat and does not catch stuff on fire I can look up exact words, as for falling damage I am out of date on it but last I knew u rolled X damage per 10' u fell = how much it hurt to fall, seamed ok to me

Further I read the rules on feint already there not bad just representing throwing the foe off guard by making him defend one place while actually attacking from a different angle. not much there to debate that I see

[DM Klumz]

I turn lightning bolts into lightning balls when thrown in water. I think that is the old grognard in me misremembering 1st edition though.

[yeti1069]

I'd say that an electric spell in water should force a DC +2 to anyone in the primary path of the effect, and should affect a space one square wider to each side for 1/2 damage and at a DC -2.

So, let's say you have a 5th level lightning bolt (marked LB) with a save DC of 14 in water. L2 would be the extended range, and PC is a player.
PC6
L2 L2 L2 L2 L2 PC3 L2 L2 L2 L2
LB PC1 LB PC2 LB LB LB LB LB LB
L2 L2 L2 L2 L2 L2 L2 L2 L2 PC4 L2 L2 L2
PC5

PCs 1 and 2 must make a DC 16 Reflex save vs. 5d6 damage.
PCs 3 and 4 must make a DC 12 Reflex save vs. (5d6)/2 damage.
PCs 5 and 6 need not make a save at all.

If this were a lightning admixtured fireball, it's radius would look like

L2 LB LB LB LB LB LB LB LB L2 (20 ft. radius for full damage, with 5 feet on each side for 1/2, or a 30 ft. radius total).

That's how I would handle it anyway.